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Thursday, 26th November 2009

Checking up on a tartan tradition

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Published Date:
10 July 2007
TARTAN is renowned across the world as a symbol of Scotland and is of huge value both to the economy and tourism.
Rangers and Celtic football clubs both have one, as does the Los Angeles Police Department and the iconic cartoon character Scrooge McDuck.

You can find it on every high street in Scotland and even on the moon.

It is associated with the height of fashion and tourism tat and it was also once outlawed. More recently, it took centre-stage at the Scissor Sisters' tartan-clad appearance at T in the Park.

Yet despite its significance, there is no official register of the thousands of tartans in existence. However, by next spring, that will change.

Jim Mather, the enterprise minister, yesterday gave official backing to the idea to "protect, promote and preserve one of Scotland's most iconic and valuable assets".

"Tartan's importance to Scotland cannot be overestimated," he said. "It is deeply embedded in Scottish culture and is an internationally recognised symbol of Scotland.

"So it is only right that the Scottish government protects, promotes and preserves one of our most valuable assets for generations to come."

He said the Court of the Lord Lyon, the heraldic authority for Scotland, and the National Archives of Scotland will play a crucial role in setting up, operating, maintaining and facilitating access to a register.

"I hope the work on a register will continue to be backed by industry and political consensus. And I hope the register will become a focus for authenticating all the superb varieties of tartan we design and produce."

Jamie McGrigor, a Highlands and Islands Conservative MSP, put forward the idea for a register of tartans in a private member's bill in the last parliament and received cross-party support.

Described by the MSP as a "trademark" for Scotland, he said a register would preserve the thousands of designs currently in existence. "It is vital that we keep Scotland as the mecca for tartan worldwide and this national register will go a long way in helping to achieve this," he said.

Details of how the project will work have still to be finalised, although it is thought a panel will be formed and will register only official tartans.

The international tartan index of the Crieff-based Scottish Tartans Authority (STA) is seen as the "register in waiting", with over 4,500 tartans listed, although a smaller list also exists in Dunkeld.

Although registration would not be compulsory, it is seen as a way of ensuring tartans are unique and authentic.

The STA advises designers of new tartans to go through the process so that a dated record of their tartan is kept. This can be legally significant if someone were to copy a design, produce a tartan of confusing similarity or try to record a tartan of the same name.

Brian Wilton, the STA's director of operations, said: "There is a huge amount of confusion at present. When a new tartan comes in we compare it to all others in our database to ensure it is unique.

"If there are some that have slipped through the net one can run into problems as someone could register a tartan which is far too close to an existing one."

He said the register will not be an "arbiter of taste", but will record genuine tartans which have fulfilled the recording criteria: "That is, that the design is unique and they are not making a claim in their name that cannot be substantiated."

He added: "I think what the new register will try to do is do away with tartans that make false claims and hoodwink the public.

"There has been a spate over the last few years of Irish surname tartans, almost the case of 'have you got an O'Flaherty tartan?', 'Not at the moment but come back after lunch'.

"In these cases, either deliberately or inadvertently, the tartan gets sold to all the O'Flaherties in the world and they are under the impression that the design is as ancient as [king of Ireland] King Brian Boru. It gives the industry such a bad name."

Blair Urquhart, an expert on tartan who runs an online design company, said the new register will effectively allow a tartan design to be copyrighted.

He said the industry has changed from even a decade ago.

"If you thought then of inventing a new tartan you would have Rob Roy turning in his grave," he said.

"There was a feeling that there were the clan tartans and that was it, and tradition was sacrosanct.

"There are now ones coming all the time and you want to make sure it's not the same as everyone else's."

IN WAR AND PEACE

THE word "tartan" refers to the way the thread is woven to make the cloth: each thread passed over two threads then under two threads, and so on. The use of different coloured yarns crossing each other distinguishes tartans from checkered pattern fabrics.

The oldest piece of tartan dates back to the 3rd century AD, found near Falkirk in an earthenware pot covering Roman coins.

After the Battle of Culloden in 1746, tartan was outlawed for 36 years, but its use was re-established by a later romantic movement concerned with reviving Scotland's past.

Sir Walter Scott urged all Highland chiefs to attend dressed in tartan finery.

A further boost was given by Queen Victoria and Prince Albert who liberally decorated Balmoral Castle with tartan.

There are thought to be more than 4,500 unique tartans and about 150 new designs come forward each year. Football teams, the mobile phone firm 02, the Hilton Hotel in Hong Kong and a number of whiskies all have their own tartan.

Alan Bean, the Apollo 12 pilot, left a piece of MacBean tartan on the moon in 1969. In 1942 Walt Disney designed the MacDuck tartan for Scrooge MacDuck, Donald's Scottish uncle.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 09 July 2007 9:52 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Kilts
 
1

Guga II,

Rockall 10/07/2007 00:36:51

I was under the impression that there always was a register of tartans kept by the Lord Lyon. However, I presume this new "register" is so that they can include all the bumbee tartans, like Rangers, Celtic and McDuck. It still won't make the bumbee tartans real tartans.

2

Tricia,

10/07/2007 01:03:59

Do you have to register what's worn under your tartan too?

3

Guga II,

Rockall 10/07/2007 01:16:02

#2 Tricia. There's nothing worn; it's all in perfect working order.

4

scot yank,

usa 10/07/2007 01:31:30

next thing the tartan police will show and give ya a summons for wearing your kit (not just kilt) wrong

'day sporran, spats, solid color hose 15 pound fine"

5

Aoda,

Pennylvania Wilds 10/07/2007 02:01:43

I always thought and from what I have read that tartans were registered.

I also read where any organization or person can design one and have it registered. In the states I know that there is one for firefighters. I wear it to play the bagpipe at a funeral for firefighters.

6

Boy Wonder,

10/07/2007 02:19:25

Surprised the article does not mention the Vestiarum Scoticum, which was a faked register of clan tartans made up by the Brothers Sobieski-Stuart ... who turned out to be John Carter Allen and Charles Manning Allen,

7

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 10/07/2007 04:34:13

Apparently, Scrooge McDuck is looking forward to registering the Ancient McDuck tartan but is having second thoughts about the Hunting McDuck!

8

Comerscroft,

10/07/2007 06:02:17

##6##

The Vestiarum Scoticum is held at the National Library of Scotland (I have seen it) and comprises wonderful figments of the SS Bros imaginations.

Genuine 'Clan Tartans' my ***.

Add to this fakery, Sir Walter Scott and Queen Victoria's 'Balmorality' with Hunting, Dress, Etc versions of pseudo-clan tartans, along with 'Prince Charlie' outfits (don't they look proper charlies?).

Also add on, for the benefit of the gullible tourist, the 'every name must have a tartan' idea, along with the tatty Pride of Scotland shops which infest Princess Street--kilts for £49.99 and other 'Scottish' (made in Taiwan) junk strewn all over the pavement, and hellish bagpipe musak blaring out.

One either despairs or cynically laughs about the risability of all this.

9

Tatties ower the side,

Johanneburg 10/07/2007 06:49:36

#8 Comerscroft So no strong opinions either way, then?

10

DorothyG,

Canada 10/07/2007 07:09:27

#3 Guga II ....as is the future of Scotland, bless you. Love my lads............

11

livilion,

livingston 10/07/2007 08:06:12

#8. Comerscroft
No I don't think they look proper charlies at all but then mebbe I'm biased.

As a toddler my Sunday best was a tweed jacket with a wee kilt and sporran.

Back in the early 50's my old dad's family was so poor when he was a kid they couldn't afford shorts or trousers for him and his brothers so he was a kilty cauld bum right up until his first pair of long trousers when he started work.

As an average middle aged bloke I suddenly find myself transformed into a babe magnet whenever I wear my kilt.

Bear in mind there is a serious cultural side to this, apart from the huge impact this has on the visitor market in Scotland, for about a century Scottish cultural identity was proscribed, from 1746 onwards, with execution or transportation to Botany Bay for, amongst other things, the wearing of plaid.

Had it been only an innocent fashion statement I doubt the government of the day would have been so troubled.

I have no doubt that highland clans did each have an identifying tartan, just look around you at the tribalism we exibit even today with modern 'clan' colours.

Were our forefathers somehow different, in an age when belonging to the wrong clan and being in the wrong place could seriously damage your chances of reaching old age even more than eg wearing a blue scarf in Parkhead?

Sir Walter Scott did not invent the kilt or tartan but tapped into a folk memory which was still very strong in his day.

Today, whether or not he'd randomly assigned tartans to individual clans is irrelevant.

The world identifies Scotland with tartan and kilts and with such a strong brand image it would be churlish in the extreme to disappoint our many visitors as well as the ladies at wedding receptions etc.

12

David Ex-Pat,

10/07/2007 08:09:41

It's all a myth anyway, and if it wasn't for William Wilson of Bannockburn who readily invented many of the tartans, or associated found tartans arbitrarily to clans, giving us the tartans we accept today as 'real', then where would we be and what other (made in China) rubbish would we have in our tourist shops?

All very well for the nouveau-kilted to imagine people marching through the heather with kilts on, but with the thistles, nettles and midgies we have in Scotland, the argument that the Highlanders out farming actually wore trews like their Viking ancestors makes much more sense.

At least we kind of agree the Scottish army might have worn kilts as blankets, even if they may have been a single colour.

Ah Mr. so and so your from the USA, so this is your first time in 'Edinboro', really your descended from Robert the Bruce, oh and Bonnie Prince Charlie, and your Scotch-Irish too, well fancy that, well let's see - your name makes you a member of a sept of Clan Blank, let's fix you up with a lovely kilt shall we, can I suggest ancient clan Blank as opposed to Hunting Blank, how ancient is it?, erm... have you seen our cuddly loch ness monsters and did I say we take all kinds of Credit cards...

13

janis,

London 10/07/2007 08:15:56

Livilion 11....yes your menfolk look wonderful & gorgeous in their kilts at all sort of "do's".... But why no alternative National costume for your ladies? Comes across as peacocks & peahens. <bg>

14

David Ex-Pat,

10/07/2007 08:23:31

8. Comerscroft, yes indeed I just read your posting. I agree about the Prince Charlie jacket it's a ridiculous part of the costume and the wearer is just too over-dressed for anything besides a wedding. I expect those guys to suddenly burst into song.

An Argyll jacket or Tweed day jacket looks considerably more acceptable to me and a sight more comfortable.

Still nothing comes close to those awful Jacobite shirts, particularly when they wear them with the modern short kilt!

15

Conan,

Here 10/07/2007 08:25:05

Tartan = sillyness

16

David Ex-Pat,

10/07/2007 08:31:46

15. I woundn't quite say that. My old Dad wore a kilt for most of his service - no surprise because he was a Seaforth Highlander, only time he didn't wear a kilt was when he was in combat in the Malayan jungle. Since leaving the army, he's never worn the kilt again. Whatever it is (invented, fabricated or no), it still gives a sense of belonging (whether to a family or even a regiment) to a lot of Scots. I married in a Tuxedo but wore my tartan cummerbund and bow-tie in my tartan.

17

'Hezza,

10/07/2007 08:48:31

Since most tartans are simply an invention of the romantic era, who gives a *uck (rhymes with duck) what they do?

18

Peter M,

Spain 10/07/2007 08:49:41

Chill out peeps!
It's fun to wear and fun to look at...and people identify with Scotland so all the better when abroad as I am.
Life's for living, not whingeing or worrying.

19

David Ex-Pat,

10/07/2007 09:04:07

18. Maybe that's the whole point Peter. You might wear one abroad but would you walk along Leith Walk wearing one? Outside of the Army, it's a novelty thing. OK for Weddings, Scottish festivals and themed events, and the Tartan Army, but it's like the old joke - what do you call a man in a kilt? A Canadian tourist... :-)

20

Comerscroft,

10/07/2007 09:15:58

I have photos of my old dad (born 1912).

Up until age 3, he had to wear a dress with a frilly collar. After that, he wore a sailor suit with a pretty hat. Thereafter, he was stuffed into a kilt, with a 'Highland outfit' for Sundays.

Poor lad. No wonder he always looks thoroughly miserable.


Even my poor brother had to wear a kilt in the Scouts. Marginally better than knee-length shorts, I suppose. He has never worn a kilt since.

21

Walter Ego,

Durness 10/07/2007 10:28:04

Let us ban tartan and proceed to the 21st century.

22

Robert,

Kirriemuir 10/07/2007 10:33:03

#15 as a true Scot I wholly agree but if we Scots insist on wearing the tartan to segregate us from other nationalities then why do we concern ourselves about the Roman church having segregated schools or the Moslim women wearing face masks? It typifies our neurotism which says, "I am okay but your are not okay". We then wonder why we are a second-rate nation so we compensate by wearing female-like attire then shave our heads and support football and drink whisky or get drunk to prove to ourselves that we are not homosexual! If only we could see ourselves as others sees us?

23

Lianachan,

Highlands 10/07/2007 10:40:24

#11#
"I have no doubt that highland clans did each have an identifying tartan, just look around you at the tribalism we exibit even today with modern 'clan' colours."

Clan identity was not signified by tartan - there were no clan tartans as such. Clan identity was mainly signified by the kind of plant you wore on your bonnet, your name and by music.

24

Helen,

10/07/2007 10:40:34

I've got a waistcoat made from 'Rainbow tartan' which is the tartan of the LGBT community.....

25

Walter Ego,

Durness 10/07/2007 10:51:46

22

Thrums, good post.

26

Super Mario Tram,

10/07/2007 10:54:05

Strangely enough, everything invented by Man is made up. As long as it makes money for scotland , who cares.

27

Super Mario Tram,

10/07/2007 10:55:38

"Up until age 3, he had to wear a dress with a frilly collar. After that, he wore a sailor suit with a pretty hat. Thereafter, he was stuffed into a kilt, with a 'Highland outfit' for Sundays."

Comerscroft - it's a wonder you were born !

28

iainruadh,

Clovenfords 10/07/2007 11:46:59

All the old anti-Scottish myths about tartan have resurfaced again. Tartan clothing is well attested as a characteristic of the Celts over 2,000 years ago with some references in Gaelic tradition going back about 3,000 years. One charmer of a high king called Tighearna nam Bas (Death Lord) is creditied with attempting to regulate the number of colours an individual could use according to his rank.

The majority of "clan" tartans are fairly ancient in that the patterns certainly predated the '45. The majority were not associated with any particular families but were worn according to individual taste and the fashion of the day. Some, however, have strong regional or family connections eg the green and black MacLean, the red and green patterns of the Murrays. Even the so called "government Tartan" or Black Watch seems to have been a common pattern used in Perthshire around 1700.

By and large, the association of individual traditional patterns with family names dates from 1790-1820. In most countries this would be regarded as a venerable tradition rather than a modern invention. When I wear my Gordon kilt, I am aware that members of my family have worn, fought and died wearing the same pattern for 200 years. I don't see this as overly romantic but rather as a link with earlier generations.

The wee kilt itself as opposed to the breacan 'n fheilidh, feilleadh mor, belted plaid has certainly been worn since the 1600s at least.

If you look at the outfits worn by officers in highland regiments even in Victorian times, there are no elements that would not have been recognised as authentic by Gaels 200 years before. They only difference really was the Victorian tendency to over elaboration and codification eg the artificial distinctions between dress and hunting varieties, day and evening sporans etc.

So when you wear your kilt, know that you are continuing a three thousand tradition unique to the Celts which ha

29

Dr. James Wilkie,

10/07/2007 11:47:44

Tartan textiles have been one of the most marked characteristics of the Celtic peoples for thousands of years. There are illustrations dating from the first century BC, and the Roman writers two thousand years ago described the checked clothing of the Celts in considerable detail.

Scotland is the only one of the Celtic nations to have maintained this tradition unbroken over the millenia. It is one of our national characteristics, our badge of identity, our national trade mark, and as such it must be preserved and sustained at all costs.

Thanks to the enterprise of the late Wendy Wood, a start has already been made towards a register of tartans, but of course the Lord Lyon's office is the natural repository of such an institution. It is already overdue and should be set up without further discussion.

30

Louisa,

Off centre 10/07/2007 12:17:23

#28 and #29 - excellent posts.

However, I agree with another poster who has a legitimate aversion to the makey-uppy tartanique horrors which have no link to celtic heritage and do nothing other than influence income generation of the wily Scotesque entrepreneur. I hope that any 'register' sustains this important heritage without the contamination of modern tartaniques?

My father, also a Seaforth Highlander captured at St Valery en Caux, and famous amateur bagpipe player and judge, was always horrified by the wearing of cream coloured kilt stockings which in his opinion were more fitting for tennis-players rather than highlanders. He would approve of the return to dark coloured stockings today that his grandsons wear with his kilts that are still in good condition after 70 years of frequent use.

31

Douglas Eckhart,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 12:21:52

'tartan' ie a intervoven check pattern goes back in scotland and other areas 2000 years, with the oldest in Scotland bieng the 'falkirk set', going back to 3rd century ad.

I awould agree that most modern tartans date from 19th century century but soem of these are likely to be older, or variations of older patterns.

The Black Watch Tartan goes back to the 18th century.

The 19th century development of 'clan tartans' is a new develoment i agree, but befor this happened, there is good evidence to suggest that tartans were identified with particular regions. William Wilson writing in 1700 wrote about the various islands and their different tartans. No doubt some clans would be identified with various tartans because of this, but it did not become uniform until the 19th century.

at the battle of killikrankie in 1689, clan chiefs are reported to be wearing swathes of tartan of various colours, basically, the highe status you were, the wider variety of tartans you wore at the same time.

Also due to the district affiliation of tartans before the 19th century, clan cheifs would be able to display the range of districts they controlled through the various tartans they displayed on their persons.

Also, the modern day 'mini kilt' or phillibeg does NOT originate in the 19th century or was invented by an englishman like the popular myth says, in fact, the earliest short kilt currenty found dates to the 1780s and they were certainly in use by the early 18th century in tiem for the '15 rebellion. There is a possibility that these short kilts first appeared at the end of the 17th century.

The great kilt certainly dates to the late 16th century if not earlier. Before this, people would have worn a tartan ie checked cloak 'toga' style garment over their tunic.

To say tartan and kilts are a myth is blatently wrong and extreme, but to say the current gear is ancient and unchanged is equally wrong.

The reality is somewhere in the m

32

Em.C.Spiteri,

Genuine? 10/07/2007 12:24:38

I bought a car blanket once, it was guaranteed to be tartan, on close inspection, it was made in Taiwan. I returned it and got my money back.

33

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 10/07/2007 12:45:46

Louisa @30

I too was a Seaforth Highlander. What was your fathers name? I'll look him up.

34

John B Dick,

Rothesay 10/07/2007 13:07:27

I wore my kilt in Berlin for three days recently. I began to get the impression that everybody spoke English till I realised that all those who had good English were taking the opportunity to speak to me.

One man came up to me and said "I can tell that you are not English"

35

,

10/07/2007 13:24:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 773797, Article id was mapped to record!
36

Colin Midlem,

Boston MA USA 10/07/2007 13:27:26

Would it be possible to ring fence tartan as a solely Scottish product? It seems to have been a successful strategy of success for, say France, with wines and cheeses; Italy's cold meats and whatever else. I imagine that Whisky has similar protection to Champagne, Sherry and Port..

37

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 10/07/2007 13:59:59

36

Possibly the kilt but I doubt the tartan.

38

JCS,

10/07/2007 14:06:12

What do you call these skirts you see Irishmen wearing on TV?

39

commonsense,

Looking for Donalds trousers 10/07/2007 14:13:51

Could this be a form of identity card by the back door?

40

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 10/07/2007 14:18:35

JCS

The Irish cannot claim the kilt to be traditional in Ireland. It is borrowed from the Celts.

In 1900 Padraig Pearse (who in 1916 read the declaration of Irish Independence and was shot a few days later) was asked to suggest a "National" dress. In his reply he said "Frankly, I would much prefer to see you arrayed in a kilt . . . (rather than traditional types of Irish trousers)"

41

Tricia,

10/07/2007 14:31:39

#3- I bet your wife is pleased that her maintenance work has kept you in perfect working order.

42

Super Mario Tram,

10/07/2007 14:36:08

38, What Channel is that where you see Irishmen wearing Skirts ? Channel 4 ?

43

JCS,

10/07/2007 15:51:20

Amazing what you can find on the internet. I always wondered what you Scots wore underneath:

Depending on the occasion, a kilt is normally worn with accessories such as a belt, jacket, sporran (a type of pouch), special footwear, and — optionally —underwear (usually black cotton briefs).

44

Douglas Eckhart,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 16:03:35

The 'Irish kilt' is fake and is a rip-off of a genuine scottish tradition.

The ealiest form of kilt the 'belted plaid' so far found in Scotland was recorded by *Irish* eyewitnesses in the 1580s.

The interesting thing as the belted plaid, or 'great kilt' was described as marking out the scottish west highland men from the Irish.

There is no tradition of the kilt in ireland and was only adopted in the late 19th/early 20th century to compete with the scots.

There is also no history of the short kilt or 'modern length kilt' in Ireland either, but in Scotland it was definately in use by the early 18th century, in time for the 1715 rebellion and possibly it first entered use in the late 17th: Certainly well before the the fake '19th century englishman' myth that always does the rounds.

I would like to get a kilt with the so called 'Falkirk set'. It is a basic two shade brown set but if you have that then you can swagger around in a tartan that is 1700 years old!

45

Bryan Ogbourne,

Austin, Texas, US 10/07/2007 17:03:41

The kilt has had kittens in the US as the working and casual UTILIKILT. No tartans tho' the last time I looked up their site. I recall that the Greek army wore kilts in the early 20thC
Make Scot kilts for every occasion and outrun the Chinese! The utilikilt has tool holders & has a snap for climbin' ladders.

46

Pelon,

New Mexico, USA 10/07/2007 18:10:59

In Scotland it may truly be the pattern and color at issue, as I imagine it would be, but over here it really is simply whether it ever is worn.

Unless it was a special annual occasion, you'd never see them.

Some day I'll wear it, and whatever else goes along with it (???), and hope that I don't make a travesty of the effort, all for the love of Scotland.

47

Kaye,

10/07/2007 18:16:04

Sumb'dy askt about the wummin's dress... It wisna faur different frae the big kilt, except it had a shift unner it, and the top corners was tied or pinnt aroon the shooders, the lower corners picket up in the front and tuckit in till the girdle or belt aroon the waist... It has a name, but a canna reca' it the noo... hope that helps

48

Deborah,

Montana 10/07/2007 18:47:38

Interesting comments, however, I have seen men wearing kilts not just at weddings and formal do's. My brothers all throw darts at the local bar and wear their kilts while competing. (At the nationals in Las Vegas they were a hit.) I have seen "carheart" kilts for construction workers, and I even have a picture of some tartan army fans all wearing kilts, t-shirts and work boots. My brothers swear that it gives them a sense of pride. I too thought there already was a registry of tartans, at least, I thought that was what one saw when looking at the swatches in the tailor shops, clan gatherings, and highland games competitions here about and abroad.

49

Breezy,

Argyll 10/07/2007 19:43:30

#46 Pelon
I'm sure you won't make a travesty of the effort. Wear it with pride. Good luck to you.

50

CATZERO,

Alabama, USA 10/07/2007 20:06:08

My father's paternal line is TEMPLETON. I understand it is from Ayrshire in Scotland. Is there any tartan, other than the Ayrshire tartan, that a Templeton is eligible to wear? My family line emigrated from North Carolina to Tennessee, then Missouri then Arkansas, where I was born. There are a lot of Scots- Irish in North Carolina, USA. I am researching how Absalom Joel Templeton's father got to North Carolina in the 1700's and from where.

51

frang,

New South Wales 10/07/2007 20:12:52

Thank god for #11, 28,29, 31 and 44. It's a real relief to find that at least a few of you know what you're talking about in these posts. Particularly those who have commented on the fact that tartans were originally associated with districts -- as many still are. The more Scots that go to the ends of the earth, the more likely you are to find a new tartan there. What's wrong with Scotland's image being global?

52

Phillip,

USA 10/07/2007 20:15:15

I wear kilts every single day. I simply refuse to wear pants. It's a matter of both heritage and comfort as injuries to my left leg make it extremely painful to put on a pair of trousers.

Personally, I think it is an excellent idea to take the Scottish Tartan Authority and place it under the aegis of the Lord Lyon so that there can be an official registry of tartans. But I don't understand the desire not to allow new tartans to be registered. All tartans are the offspring of human creativity. In ancient times some were associated primarily with one region or another and most likely many "clan" tartans are descended from those most commonly worn by clan members for regional reasons. And yes somewere simply plucked out of the air by enterprising businessmen. But they are now considered appropriate and are worn commonly. So why can't new groups register tartans, say for their businesses or social organizations? And why can't a clan or family decide that they wish to add yet another variation to their existing tartans?

And as for the person who hates the Prince Charlie, what's wrong with updating our clothing slightly for the modern world? The tuxedo isn't an ancient form of attire, yet it is perfectly respectable for a formal engagement. Coat and tails weren't worn by the ancient Saxons, yet they are the height of male English fashion for formal attire. So why not modernize the kilt slightly and update it for today by wearing a Prince Charlie to a formal event?

If you freeze anything in time, then you kill it. Only if it survives but evolves will it always remain a part of our identity.

53

Auld Fifer,

Toronto 10/07/2007 20:22:38

At last year's Burn's Supper in Toronto my wife made the comment - "this is the only time the men look better than the women". All we Scotsmen should take this opportunity whenever we can.

" Here's tae su, whas like us"

54

tyson,

Naptowne, Merrylande 10/07/2007 20:39:29

I remain happy that I've never witnessed a gent in a kilt ascend a ladder. The goggles- they do NOTHING!

55

Tearlach MacPolk,

10/07/2007 20:46:30

#02

The only thing I wear under ma' kilt is ma' best girlfriends lipstick.

56

tyson,

Naptowne, Merrylande 10/07/2007 20:46:55

re: Irish kilts - Outside of the iconic John Wayne Film, the "Quiet Man" the only Irish kilts I've ever seen have been associated with military pipe bands. Both Her Majesty's forces and the Republic have kilted musicians. In the U.S. some police deparments have affiliated pipes and drums accoutered in "Irish" kilts -usually saffron or green non-tartans.

57

,

10/07/2007 20:49:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 774865, Article id was mapped to record!
58

Tricia,

10/07/2007 21:01:24

#55- And I suppose after that highland fling her lips are sealed.

59

Jenny B,

Irondequoit, NY 10/07/2007 21:08:00

My husband wears his kilts all of the time now. He says it is much more comfortable than shorts and trousers. People stop him everywhere we go and ask him where to get one.

I have seen "punk rockers" in the states wearing kilts with camouflage designs and it makes me wince. But to each his own.

If I only had a dime for how many times strangers ask us "Are you a piper?"

There is nothing like a man in a kilt.
Try one on and see the difference in attention you get!

60

Tricia,

10/07/2007 21:17:13

#59- Do you stand closer to the cabre toss or the bale of hay throw?

61

David Ex-Pat,

10/07/2007 21:20:38

45. Bryan Ogbourne, Austin, Texas, US,

I've seen those utilikilts and they are quite awful. If men are going to wear the kilt they should at least wear a tartan one, not some ridiculous skirt. Just last month I was at the Arlington Festival and saw a lot of guys wearing those ridiculous excuses for 'kilts'. In fact the utilitkilt wearers probably outnumbered men wearing real kilts. I have to wonder if the guys who wear the utilikilts also like to get into drag...

Maybe you got along to the festival yourself, here's my pics of this years festival.

http://arlington2007.tripod.com/

62

David Ex-Pat,

10/07/2007 21:23:21

30. Louisa, Off centre, I see the Seaforth army brats are out in force today... ;-) Cuidich 'n Righ!

63

David Ex-Pat,

10/07/2007 21:26:45

52. Phillip, USA, "I wear kilts every single day. I simply refuse to wear pants...And as for the person who hates the Prince Charlie, what's wrong with updating our clothing slightly for the modern world?"

I can't agree with you, Philip (USA). The very much invented 'Prince Charlie' is a ridiculous costume, which has no place outside of a wedding party, made even more tacky by 60/70's mediocre TV performers, and which makes ever real Scot cringe. Give me an Argyll jacket any day!

64

Buff,

Bonnie Dundee 10/07/2007 21:29:19

I hope Histerical Scotlands Interpretation Department are taking note regarding the Tartan and the benefit it is to the Scottish Economy.
As a frequent visitor to a few of their sites, especially Edinburgh Castle, I see the Tartan Clad re-enator , who the Tourists go crazy for..photo..photo.. (it makes their day) is slowly being replaced by an English army officer!
Bring forit the Tatan!!!

65

Breezy,

Argyll 10/07/2007 21:58:13

#51 Frang
Unfortunately there are people on these boards that for political reasons in Scotland at this moment in time will deny the facts of the real history of the tartans, fortunately as you say , there are others who do know what they are talking about.

66

David Ex-Pat,

10/07/2007 22:03:36

66. Breezy, Argyll, give the politics a break. This issue is apolitical and has been around forever.

67

David Ex-Pat,

10/07/2007 22:05:13

66. Breezy, Argyll, by the way Breezy, what is the real history of the tartans, if you know it please do tell, because no one else does. All we can do is guess at most of it.

68

,

10/07/2007 22:08:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 774971, Article id was mapped to record!
69

David Ex-Pat,

10/07/2007 22:09:06

69 Me, should have read "all a London consipracy"

70

tartanspecialist,

Tennessee 10/07/2007 22:48:45

As a tartan historian and designer, some of you have it right, some -- such as a person's rank was indicated by the number of colours --continue to pass on myths. Actually, top rankers wore "warr coats", all solid yellow. The oldest recorded tartan still woven is the "Lennox District" (c. 1575) and the second is the "Ulster" (c. 1600). The so-called "Falkirk Tartan" is a check in two shades of natural wool. Attend some American Scottish event where there is a "Tartan Information Tent" such as the Grandfather Mtn. Highland Games or Ligioner and see just how much people want to identify with
Scotland.

P.S. I designed the :Los Angeles Police PB" tartan referred to in the article.

71

livilion,

livingston 10/07/2007 23:09:20

#22. Robert, Kirriemuir

What sad wee fella you are pal.

Do e.g. Americans wear Stetsons, baseball caps, or ridiculously loud sports jackets to 'segregate' themselves from other nationalities?

You're darn tootin they don't, they frankly couldn't care less about other nationalities and celebrate being American.

So should we, forget the rest and just enjoy being Scots.

How is the wearing of the feileadh beag any more peculiar than those 'gangstas' from Pilton or Easterhouse with ginger hair and freckles trying to act like black American rappers?

You don't have to apologise for your heritage, Victorian or otherwise.

Neurotic? I think you may have some issues you need to be working on, I suspect you may be 'confused'.

As for the proving ourselves to be not homosexual, whatever, just get yourself a kilt for an evening.
I promise, the attention you recieve from the lassies will sort out any remaining confusion you may feel.

One caveat, the kilt must be of the correct weight, none of the asian lightweight stuff prefered by gender reassignmentees, no pantyhose under any pretext whatsoever, no under-wear at all if you are looking for or expecting 'trouser action', no leather and no trendy styles as sometimes sported by politicians visiting tartan week in the USA eg or the attention may not be quite what you'd anticipate.

72

livilion,

livingston 10/07/2007 23:32:21

#69. David Ex-Pat
My, aren't we the sensitive one tonight?

(sighs) Yet another over-reaction to anything that sounds like it might possibly perhaps have a reference to Scottish nationalism in it, you and Breezy are the only ones to mention politics in 70-odd posts.

Hardly hijacking.

Could this be another case of Scots winding up our southern neighbours in order to gain independence?

Furtive that's what they are Captain, furtive. If Dougie wis hear he'd tell you an'all.

73

albanoch,

Kyoto Japan 10/07/2007 23:38:22

Tartan is a French word and means "Wollen Cloth"
For those of you...most of you..who are feel your information on tartans, highland dress and Scottish culture in general is lacking somewhat, due to three hundred years of living under the yoke of English domination etc.etc. winge winge..I suggest you read Matthew A.C. Newsome's homepage at Albanoch.Org and learn a few truths.
Braveheart was a F***ing abomination and the name alone makes me cringe though it sure put us on the map as far as the average yank was concerned...it certainly dispelled that Brig O' Doon image...BRING BACK JEAN KELLY AND BRIG O'DOON!! at least it was honest fantasy..braveheart
{should be called Pacemaker}was/is beyond words and winging. Oh bring back Andy Stewart, Fran and Anna..the Tartan lads..hoots mon I must away fur ma porridge and then practice some highland dancing while I accompany maself on the bagpipes while reciting Willian Mc Gonagall.

74

livilion,

livingston 10/07/2007 23:47:06

64. David Ex-Pat
I disagree with your view of the Bonnie Prince Charlie.

I do not favour the Montose or the Argyle for black tie do's.
The Montrose looks a wee bit white heather club with the bib, and the Argyle can be a bit informal, more the morning suit sort of effect.

As formal wear I choose the Bonnie Prince Charlie and feileadh beag and have never felt out of place, no matter the company.

I can tell you that in Scotland by far the most poipular alternative to the dinner suit is in fact the Bonnie Prince Charlie wastcoat and short jacket, formal shirt with or without wing collar, and tie of your taste.

Most also tend to wear the broad belt, although strictly speaking this is a style faux pas, as it looks good.

75

Kilian,

Tucson Arizona USA 10/07/2007 23:49:18

#47 Would that be an arisaid? Here's a link with photo:

http://www.lindaclifford.com/Arisaid.html

76

livilion,

livingston 11/07/2007 00:12:54

75. albanoch, Kyoto Japan

Whats the problem?
Just because Hollywood produce an action movie with a Scottish theme are we all supposed to be painting ourselves with wode and overthrowing the yoke of English oppression?


Newsflash: American off duty cops don't go around covered in blood and snot exclaimimg yippee kai ay mutha f****s, blowing up everything in sight, and shooting baddies with dodgy foreign accents.
Movies are often no more than entertainment.
If you're looking for historical realism I'd suggest starting in your local museum service or public library.

Just because it is Scottish doesn't mean it is guph.

Of the things we admire in other cultures in the most part they are Victorian inventions and just as often borrowed from British martial tradition.

Our ancient British institutions such as the Monarchy, as we know them today again are pure Victoriana.

I don't hear of any Englishman cringing with embarrassment at the Buckingham Palace changing of the guard or trooping of the colour at the Queen's birthday parade.

Do other countries have the same sweety wives who are down on everything that ties in with their percieved international identity?

77

searidge,

surey BC Born in Scotland 11/07/2007 00:20:29

Tartan is our hertage so we must keep it in our Land & let the world enjoy all its Glory I now live in Canada but my Scots accent is still there proud of my birth Thanks mary Mc nabb( Nee Noble )

78

The Wizard,

OZ 11/07/2007 00:24:06

Here's to it
The fighting sheen of it
The Yellow, the Green of it
The White, the Blue of it,
The swing, the hue of it
The dark, the Red of it,
Every thread of it

The fair have sighed for it
The brave have died for it
Foeman sought for it
Heroes fought for it
Honour the name of it
Drink to the fame of it
The Tartan

by Murdoch MacLean

79

The Global Scot,

Australia 11/07/2007 00:24:20

If you want to see a modern approach to the tartan design then check out Steve Frasers site on http://artpatron.com/scotland or check him out at http://www.kipton.com/ during the opening of Alba House in New York; scroll down the screen on the right.

80

The Wizard,

OZ 11/07/2007 01:22:13

I have to agree with #75 Albanoch.

Braveheart was crap. How Gibson at five foot nothing could portay himself as Wallace is a joke.The only reason he gets to act in movies is because he pays for them to be produced.
Now a question. Were the Scot's painting their faces
at that time in history?

81

KTK...,

FL.USA 11/07/2007 01:49:01

Having been in the US for 9yrs and having the nick-name "The Kilt", i take great pride in not only being Scottish, but representing Scotland.# 60 Jenny, you got it right, i have not only met so many people over here, i have become very well known, wich is very good for my business

Up yer Kilt...KTK..

82

David Ex-Pat,

11/07/2007 02:19:47

82. The Wizard, OZ / 2:22am 11 Jul 2007 I have to agree with #75 Albanoch.

"...How Gibson at five foot nothing could portay himself as Wallace is a joke....Were the Scot's painting their faces
at that time in history?"

Indeed can't agree more with you. Wallace was a huge man by all accounts, his sword was probably as big as Mel Gibson stands tall. I doubt very much that the people Wallace came from ever in fact painted their faces blue. They were of course not 5th century Picts! Nor would they have been in the habit of splashing mud on their faces. Good movie for movies-sake, but what annoys me most about that movie are the people who now dress like Gibson or the sad 'invented' costumes they saw in that movie.

83

David Ex-Pat,

11/07/2007 02:31:16

74. livilion, livingston, not at llivlion. The small number of people who seem to imagine that anything remotely Scottish is somehow now under the jurisdiction and control of one particular political party and that all the rest of us have no right to discuss it either way are a bit of a joke frankly.

This one backfires on them though, since the people most likely to wear tartans and support the whole often nonsensical 'clan' thing are the landed gentry and chieftains, who are predominantly Tories with the occasional Liberal Democrat.

This is and remains an apolitical topic which has been discussed long before any of these modern parties came into being. There are as many Scots who will rightly argue the reality of it against the plain myth of it. I'm a bit conservative (excuse the use of that word) on the topic.

As a 'Tartan Army' type, I see no problem with tartans and kilt wearing, but I would rather see it done with some respect to the garment and not with regard to how it was worn in a movie or how someone imagines it might be worn and goes on to state and restate someone else's guesses or theories as hard fact.

I won't go into my name but I can tell you that one of my ancestors worked in Dunblane making Tartans some 2 centuries ago. The history of tartan is all a bit vague, but for some of us whose families were actually involved it's a little less vague. What is myth and what is reality, no one knows.

84

The Wizard,

OZ 11/07/2007 02:36:08

#84 David

Thanks lad. I cringe when people talk about the film being close to real history.

As a wee boy I could see the Wallace Monument from outside the hoose. Climbed those winding stairs countless times. Great views of the Ochills, Trossachs etc.

Wiz

85

David Ex-Pat,

11/07/2007 02:41:46

76. livilion, livingston / 12:47am 11 Jul 2007 64. David Ex-Pat

"I disagree with your view of the Bonnie Prince Charlie...The Montrose looks a wee bit white heather club with the bib, and the Argyle can be a bit informal, more the morning suit sort of effect."

Well if you like looking like the missing Alexander Brother with your Prince Charlie then that's entirely up to you. I consider people in that costume to be overdressed, even more so than someone in a Tuxedo.

The Argyle being less formal can indeed be worn at day events, but being much less formal works in almost any situation or social occasion, such as day/evening dinners and Burns Suppers; balls, ceilidhs or other dances; weddings, graduations, or christenings; as well as Highland games or simply as general day wear.

86

David Ex-Pat,

11/07/2007 02:51:04

86. The Wizard, OZ / 3:36am 11 Jul 2007 #84 David

"As a wee boy I could see the Wallace Monument from outside the hoose. Climbed those winding stairs countless times. Great views of the Ochills, Trossachs etc."

If I had a pound for every time I've jogged, walked, sometimes crawled up the slope to the momument - always stopping at the sign halfway up to pech for breath... I'd have as much cash as Brian Souter.

It's long been one of my favourite places and somewhere I'd go in the evenings for peace and quiet, the view from the Abbey Craig (trail to the right of it) is just brilliant. The view (straight ahead) on the way down is just as good. As I round the corner and head down by the benches on the right hands side I always think it looks like an Alpin view. I missed the harebells this year, when I was over. Always great to see that on the slope end of May.

87

Doug B,

Houston, Texas 11/07/2007 03:02:16

David Ex-Pat...........From a first generation American of Scottish descent through Nova Sotia, (Beaton, MacLeod, Johnston and Campbell one generation removed), I will offer that while you can say what you will, wear what you will and think what you will, the tartan kilt is a symbol of Scotland that I wear on every possible occasion; whether it be a formal event, (with Prince Charlie), an evening out, (with my Argyll jaket if semi-formal, or a vest if casual), a sporting event with a team flavored polo shirt, or a Highland game or similar Scottish themed event with my (horrors) Jacobite shirt.
I will wear any of my 4 MacLeod tartans with the pride instilled by my parents and grandparents, the knowledge that being Scottish was akin to being favored by the gods, and that the wearing of it was vivid testimony to the "arrogance of excellence" resulting from my heritage.
If you have a problem with wearing the tartan, wearing the kilt, or understanding the import of who you are and where you came from, you probably have no idea or care in where you are going......and for that, you have my sympathy, though I fear you won't give a royal damn for it.
But for those of us who relish in the story of what the Scots have given the world, of their unique contributions to democracy, freedom, economy, science, technology, the military and religion, we will wear our colors proudly..proclaiming to all who see us that we are SCOTS! And by damn, that's a right bit better than any alternative I've come up against.
Do you really detest your heritage and your family origins that much that you will forswear the very links to your history?
BTW............all my kilts are 13 oz wool, and none have "made in China" anywhere on the fabric.
So.......as we say here in South Texas, "Boy, that ol' dog just won't hunt 'round here". Do a bit of research in who you are, take pride that your heritage is vibrant and living, and that if yo

88

David Ex-Pat,

11/07/2007 03:10:26

90. Doug B, Houston, Texas, I have no idea how in Hades, you arrived at those conclusions from anything I said. I am a Scot born and bred and currently working in Houston Texas. You are an American with a rather vague idea of Scotland and Scottishness with a big helping of Brigadoon and let's pretend by the sounds of it. Nuff said.

89

David Ex-Pat,

11/07/2007 03:13:24

90. "the knowledge that being Scottish was akin to being favored by the gods, and that the wearing of it was vivid testimony to the "arrogance of excellence."

Hmmm, hardly the view that we are all Jock Tamson's bairns now is it? It might come as a surprise to you but most Scots, rich, poor, high, low, titled or no, shun that level of arrogance.

90

The Wizard,

OZ 11/07/2007 03:21:21

David.

Did the climb again last year, gammy knee and all.
Still a magic spot.
From there to the castle where a pipe band were playing. Seated next to an American tourist and every time a new tune was played he would ask 'what's the name of that tune?
After an hour or so they played The Barren Rocks of Aden. 'Why is it called The Barren Rocks of Aden? came the question.
Exasperation came to the surface 'because there's no bloody grass in Aden.

Silence!!!!!

On your earlier post, the thing that gets up my nose are the shops selling tartan highland coo's and nessies. Who the hell buys this rubbish?

91

David Ex-Pat,

11/07/2007 03:27:37

93. Tourists buy it by the ton. :-)

By the way, you might have met my sister if you did the tour at the castle (who knows), she's worked at the castle for the last few summers. BTW, the Barren Rocks of Aden, top tune!

92

David Ex-Pat,

11/07/2007 03:53:22

90. Doug B, Houston, Texas,
You said "Do you really detest your heritage and your family origins that much that you will forswear the very links to your history?"

I've been thinking about your posting, I think you must have picked up me up wrongly Doug, but you have definitely taken the wrong message from them.

I think you will find that I am one of the most Patriotic Scots you will ever come across and as regards my family - with an unbroken and documented tree to the 1400's I think I know who I am already. I really don't need to do as you suggest and 'research who I am'. I know who I am, and my ancestry in reality is only a tiny part of that.

However I have to say that like most Scots I have absolutely no pretentions and have never suffered from the sin of pride (merely from being a Scot).

You have to realise that Scotland and the Scots are a progressive nation - there's a heck of a lot more to our heritage than simply wearing kilts and playing bagpipes. You do it your way, and we'll do it ours, but it won't make your way any more real.

93

David Ex-Pat,

11/07/2007 03:59:19

and with that... Time I poured myself a snifter of 18 year old Chivas Regal and celebrated my Scottishness...

94

The Wizard,

OZ 11/07/2007 04:38:11

David, I will join you with a glass of Laphroaig Cask Strength,
Slainte.

By the way, I have never seen a real live tartan highland coo and a pal who lived on the shores of Loch Ness and has seen Nessie assures me it was not wearing a tartan bunnet

Wiz

95

David Ex-Pat,

11/07/2007 04:50:16

97. Laphroaig, nice! Slainte! :-D

96

livilion,

livingston 11/07/2007 08:54:36

#96. David Ex-Pat

That'll be Strathisla, wholly owned sudsidiary of Pernod Ricard then?

See you don't really need to have chapter and verse back to Malcolm Canmore to be Scottish.

To me there's an awfull lot of pretentious twaddle from folks, some who see anything with tartan as Victorian affectation and twee, then those who don't feel 'properly' Scottish if they are not wearing 'their' clan tartan in one guise or another.

I wouldn't dream eg of wearing my dinner suit for everyday, there is a time and a context for everything.

The simple truth is that, in my oppinion, this debate is now decades out of date, to the extent that our former First Minister felt confident enough to turn up in New York wearing, was it a pin striped black kilt?- to Tartan Week!
Maybe misplaced confidence?

See the sartorial faux pas' of the Red Hot Chilli Pipers and their fluffy red sporans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwrvHnYpwkk

Live and let live, neither myself or any of my friends fit your description of the 'typical kilt wearer'.

At my wedding, to a girl of Lancashire extraction, she tried to bar me from wearing my kilt so as not to embarrass her English uncles and cousins.

Everyone of them secretly went out and hired the full 'highland regalia' for the occasion, and had a ball, or should that be Ceilidh?

In context, for formal wear I'll wear the Bonnie Prince Charlie the same way I might wear my dinner suit and tartan waistcoat.

I notice btw some of our colonial cousins have taken to wearing the dinner jacket with jeans, so I think perhaps we might cut just a wee bit of slack on the sartorial side of Scottish national custom.
I was gonna say dress ;)

97

Annlass,

Toronto, ON 11/07/2007 09:38:23

Most Tartans are colourful and eye-catching, others blah! I often wonder if the Scots have the right to claim its origin but then why not they claim the origins of everything else. Highland regiments were founded by Lairds, Scots quislings at the English Court and manned by mercenaries, ruffians and sadists, to do their bidding and suppress the crofters and slaughter them at Culloden as they mistakingly defended a lunatic Polish born, French resident prince. Not just any prince, but a bonny prince. These highland regiments were led in the carnage by Colonel Wolfe who later as General Wolfe led the highland hooligans to the slaugher of French peasants on the Plains of Abraham, still recognized as Canada's shame. In 1986, I was allowed to visit Poland on a UN scholarship and while in Warzsawa (Warsaw) our group stayed at the Victoria Hotel and spent many jolly evenings in The Tartan Lounge, the place was covered in Royal Stuart and enjoyed watching our male compatriates imbibe in any imaginable Scotch Malt Whisky before going downstairs to the Black Cat Night Club, also covered in Tartan. This was an interesting experience for me since Poland was still part of the Soviet Block and most of the hotel guests were British, representatives of the Scotch Whisky Distillers or Tanqueri and Beefeater Gin companies.
Even the waiters were wearing Tartan troos and on my return when I reported on this to my Father he informed me that business has no political stripes and Tartan is just another commodity to dress the occasion. Robert Burns, Scotland's National poet scorned the Tartan and wore the hoddin grey. But dream on all you Scots, dream on.

98

tassiestag,

tasmania 11/07/2007 09:40:46

i hae a photo o,ma mam dad and masel on munlochy railway station in 1946 wi me wearin ma kilt...................and a still hae the kilt.

99

livilion,

livingston 11/07/2007 10:42:35

100. Annlass, Toronto, ON
Need to pick you up on the Burns thing.

He did not 'scorn the tartan' as you suggest, it was made illegal post 1745 carrying with it the punishment of death by hanging or transportation to Botany Bay for the wearer long after Burns' death and well into the 1800's.

The only exeptions being for the Scottish highland regiments who nearly mutinied when their generals made known their contempt for the native Scots they were facing during the anti-Jacobite campaigns of the late 17th and early 18th centuries.

On one notable occasion such an officer had to be reminded that he in fact had more of these Scots under his command behind him than faced him on the field of battle and it really did not do to antagonise them too much.

It was to placate these Unionist soldiers that they alone were permitted to continue wearing the tartan and their kilts.

Near the end of his days Robert Burns was heavily censured by his bosses at the Excise for failing to rise to acknowledge the new British national anthem.

Burns and his family were well known Jacobite sympathisers from auld lang syne forced to flee Kincardine after the 1715.

For this reason, not least of all, the wearing of tartan and the kilt can be much more than a fashion statement, but a re-affirmation that we are Scottish inspite of long attempts to convince us of the contrary.

100

The Wizard,

OZ 11/07/2007 11:09:38

#100 Annlass

What a load of absolute twaddle. You should not stop taking your medication.

101

ScotinFrance,

France 11/07/2007 11:43:46

So many have written -- passionately -- about the kilt; when are they going to get the garment out of the wardrobe and show it off?

A kilt is clothing, not fancy dress.

102

Douglas Eckhart,

Edinburgh 11/07/2007 14:05:17

I feel sorry for 'scots' men who scorn the kilt. They are missing out, simply because it is an abolute babe magnet. Anyone who has worn it can attest to this. Wear it abroad and the effect is magnified x100!

For those who (incorrectly) scorn it due to their scottish cringe and mistaken belief that kilts and tartan are 19th century inventions, well, they deserve to go home with nothing warmer than a stringy kebab!

Hint: Don't just take my word for it. Cary out a survey of womens' opinions on the matter of the kilt... 'nuff said.

103

Maryvonne in Nantes-de-Bretagne,

Brittany 11/07/2007 14:18:35

Can't reasonnably read all comments..., interesting, I don't doubt of.

But do you know the fashion has now come to Brittany to wear kilts ?
There's been even a "Breton Tartan" design created.
White and black, like our flag, and green and blue, like sea and (green) land. Not badly imagined...
I love Scotland but this is not enough for me to wear a kilt, a real one, though I wore "scotish skirts" as a school-girl...

You can find many varieties of tartans sold in material lengths in a shop in Paris, but as I don't want to seem to advertise for (which I don't do either) I let you find the website of the shop.

Kenavo !

104

,

11/07/2007 15:24:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 777252, Article id was mapped to record!
105

Virgil,

Vancouver,BC 11/07/2007 19:13:58

#100 Annlass ... I also stayed at the Victoria Hotel in Warzsawa and noted the same abundance of Tartan and Scotch Whisky, back in 1981, while it was still under the control of the Soviet Union. No surprise there as your Father correctly stated "business is business". I cannot comment on the origin of the Tartan and Robert Burn's involvement but I will yield to the intelligent comments in # 102 livilion ... I do agree however that General Wolfe and his band of Highlanders (?) still leaves a bad taste when discussing mercantilism in Canada. You have certainly upset #103 Wizard .. whose wrath has prevented him from submitting any empirical information so I must assume that his knowledge extends no further than his belief that Tartan was discoverd by lager louts to wear at international football matches.

106

David Ex-Pat,

11/07/2007 20:04:20

99. livilion, livingston / 9:54am 11 Jul 2007 #96. David Ex-Pat

Firstly, I have a strong feeling that you are an American.

"To me there's an awfull lot of pretentious twaddle from folks, some who see anything with tartan as Victorian affectation and twee, then those who don't feel 'properly' Scottish if they are not wearing 'their' clan tartan in one guise or another."

"...our former First Minister felt confident enough to turn up in New York wearing, was it a pin striped black kilt?- to Tartan Week!"

So it's back to party politics and political point scoring again with you. Look I don't think any Scot in their right mind agreed with Jack McConnell's choice of dress. I already said I was conservative in my thoughts on this and shun anything that is not a kilt. JM was wearing what can only be described as a skirt, irrespective of party politics his choice of garb was still stupid.

107

Ileach,

11/07/2007 20:23:21

I'll have a Bruichladdich (their tartan is very attractive, in the colors of the sea around the Hebrides). Slainte! My bedroom is decorated in ancient MacDonald of the Isles (mostly green). I work at the US medical school which has its own tartan. Anyone looking for an authentic piece of tartan, please contact the Islay Woollen Mill! Thanks RWD

108

Dr. James Wilkie,

11/07/2007 21:23:15

#72. I wear a tie in the Lennox District Tartan, because the Lennox (the region south and east of Loch Lomond) is my home territory. This beautiful tartan can be dated fairly accurately to around 1575, because the portrait of the then Countess of Lennox, one of the branches of the Stewart clan, shows her wearing it. She was the mother of Lord Darnley, second husband of Mary I, Queen of Scots.


 

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This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.