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Wednesday, 9th December 2009

Lockerbie relatives to demand Megrahi stays in Scots jail

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Published Date: 05 July 2009
KENNY MacAskill is to be put under intense pressure to keep the Lockerbie bomber behind bars in Scotland this week when he takes part in discussions with the families of the American victims.
The justice secretary will hear a heartfelt plea from Americans who lost loved ones in the atrocity and who firmly believe that Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi should die in a Scottish prison.

MacAskill will hear that American families are "shock
ed and horrified" that Scottish ministers are considering whether Megrahi should be sent back home to Libya under the terms of a controversial prisoner transfer agreement struck by Tony Blair and Muammar Gaddaffi.

MacAskill will speak with the relatives during a video conference that will link Edinburgh with the British Embassy in Washington.

MacAskill has already been in touch with the US Attorney General Eric Holder, who is understood to have informed the justice secretary that Megrahi, who is terminally ill with prostate cancer, should stay in HMP Greenock.

That message will be rammed home on Thursday by the American families, who firmly believe Megrahi was responsible for the murder of 270 people when Pan Am Flight 103 exploded over Lockerbie 20 years ago.

Last night Frank Duggan, a Washington lawyer who is president of the Victims of Pan Am Flight 103, said: "The American relatives have never had the opportunity to make victim impact statements. It will be very emotional. They will talk about what their loss means to them – 20 years of missed grandchildren, missed weddings, all of the things that go on in life. It is especially distressing for those who lost young people – so many of them would have made a difference.

"He should stay in prison in Scotland. That was the agreement. The position of the US government is that he should serve his sentence in Scotland and that will be the overwhelming message to MacAskill."

A letter to MacAskill written by Kathleen Flynn, a mother who lost her son John Patrick Flynn on the night that the aircraft exploded, sums up the families' attitude.

"We are shocked and horrified that the convicted bomber of this horrific crime is being considered for a prisoner-transfer agreement to his native country, Libya," she said.

"I would hope that you would include the (views] of the majority of victims of the Pan Am 103 bombing – the 189 Americans lost on the flight."

MacAskill and Alex Salmond face one of the most taxing dilemmas of the SNP's reign as they decide what to do with the former Libyan intelligence agent who was convicted of the atrocity in the Scottish courts.

There is a vocal body of opinion who believe that Megrahi has been the victim of a huge miscarriage of justice. He is currently appealing against his conviction.

Among those convinced of his innocence is Jim Swire, a retired British GP who lost his daughter in the bombing.

Swire said: "Of course the Americans are saying that he is guilty. Their administration has told them that he is guilty. But I don't think they have questioned the quality of the evidence."





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 04 July 2009 8:28 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
 
1

Fifi la Bonbon,

05/07/2009 00:05:24
Thank goodness for a voice to contradict Mr Swire, who gets all the publicity. We live in a country where people convicted of crime - Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi, Ronnie Biggs, Kenny Richey, and all the rest - are treated as victims with unlimited efforts made to campaign to get them off their duly imposed punishment, and all the press coverage they want.

2

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/07/2009 00:26:07
1 Jesus is there no end to your capacity for talking rubbish.

You would have made an excellent camp guard Fifi.

As far as I understand the current situation, Megrahi can be released if he drops his appeal. That is disgusting emotional blackmail, anyone with the wits they were born with knows he is a patsy.

He should be released on humanitarian grounds and the appeal should be allowed to go ahead, whether he is alive or dead.

This is Scottish Justice in the dock here, and we should not be found more wanting than we already have been.
3

Fifi la Bonbon,

05/07/2009 00:59:12
#2 - you seem to want to give all the credence to Mr Swire, and none to the majority of relatives of those 270 people slaughtered in the crime for which Mr Megrahi was convicted and sentenced.

I have little confidence in Kenny McAskill but at least he's going to listen to the parents. And that comment reportedly made by Mr Swire, suggesting that the US parents are being hoodwinked by their government, is disgraceful and patronising.

Finally that comment of yours, that I would have made an excellent camp guard, is nothing but personal abuse. I can understand that you feel that Mr Megrahi is the true victim here but your remark totally devalues the actual point you were trying to make.
4

BIG EYE,

Paisley 05/07/2009 01:58:26
I confess to be confused by what actually happened on that dreadful night but I think Jim Swire has raised a number of points which have never been refuted in a convincing manner and I have doubts over much of the evidence in the trial. I am convinced that politics had at the very least as much to do in the verdict as evidence.

On that basis, and I have already admitted this is somewhat shaky, I think it is worth another look.

What is certain is that Jim Swire has honoured the memory of his loved one through ensuring that the issue is fully investigated and I admire him for his dedication and enormous effort.

I understand the frustrations and the setbacks seeking answers from organisations and governments who view questions as a problem and interference and win or lose Jim Swire has already succeeded by showing that a concerned parent can cause mayhem by seeking the truth.

His actions have encouraged others and he should be enormously proud!
5

,

05/07/2009 03:00:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

yockel,

05/07/2009 04:46:26
Is Fifi a wind up?
7

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/07/2009 09:45:04
3 Fifi if you dish out personal abuse then you really ought to be able to take it back.
8

ukrefusenik,

camelon 05/07/2009 10:50:18
everybody and their dog knows that the deed was done by the P F L P , using a drug smuggling conduit in frankfurt ,allowed them by the C I A . it suited the dirty war purposes of the sceptics to blame Lybia and qaddaffi , and their notoriously under-educated populace can be prevailed upon to consume any old bullshine their awful political elite wish to feed them . its like pretending that one doesnt know that that "political analyst" isnt a universally known diplomatic euphemism for M I 6 agent ,even in Iran .
9

The Saltire,

05/07/2009 11:51:05
If there is any doubts at all to his conviction then he should be retried and all the new evidence presented. Then they can decide whether or not to release him.
10

The Saltire,

05/07/2009 11:52:23
6

Of course. Just another one of the many names used by the staff of this rag to stir their own stories.
11

Tartan Bonds,

05/07/2009 12:10:39
85 Liberal for life,Dunblane 05/07/2009 10:58:08
Supermarket offers are the main problem in this regard and should be restricted to ensure youngsters are limited to access irresponsible drinking via such outlets. A few high profile bans should help do the trick in this regards
12

Queen D,

05/07/2009 12:13:10
Poor man.
Even if , and its a big IF, he did commit this atrocity, surely considering his health it would be better if Scotland could be seen as compassionate and let him die in his homeland?
I would let Ronnie Biggs die with his family too.
Neither are a danger to the public and are not going to survive for much longer.
And before I get pelters saying that he did'nt consider those he killed and did'nt let them die on their home soil, I remind you that his was a dodgy conviction.
13

,

05/07/2009 12:32:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
14

frank mcbride,

lusitania 05/07/2009 12:45:56

I make no judgement on the guilt or innocence of Megrahi, but while the UK state and the US withhold evidence, this conviction is fatally flawed and tainted.

If Justice, in Scotland, is to have any meaning Megrahi must be released, not to a Lybian prison but, to his home.

Ideally this should be done by the Court of Appeal but, if it will not, then it should be done by the SG.
15

Fifi la Bonbon,

05/07/2009 13:30:01
#7 - I am sorry if you feel that I have offered you personal abuse. Would you kindly show me where I have done so?
16

Fifi la Bonbon,

05/07/2009 13:32:56
Mr Megrahi isn't the victim here, he's the perpetrator. He was tried and convicted in the fairest way available. The victims are the 270 killed on the plane. Some people have got their perception of who is the victim the wrong way round.
17

frank mcbride,

lusitania 05/07/2009 13:56:37
#16, Fifi.

It is public knowledge that the UK state and the US is refusing to disclose evidence.

This non-disclosure makes the judgement fatally flawed and tainted and, as such, means that the judgement should be set aside.

Either we have a Justice System that abides by its own rules, or we have nothing.
18

2Right,

On Location 05/07/2009 16:55:38
"Either we have a Justice System that abides by its own rules, or we have nothing"

Well said Frank McBride.

As for Fifi

Come on tell us on what evidence you think Megrahi should be kept in prison on ?

Is it the evidence of Gauci (Who Identified Abu Talb Positively) who has never really Identified Megrahi but can only say he looked similar, but would have needed to be 15 years older and taller.

Is it the evidence of the Chip which has never been soldered ?

The same chip that shows no Explosive residue Maybe ?

Is it the fact Gauci changed his mind after being paid £2 Million.

Since you are able to voice your opinion, I am interested (as I am sure some of the other readers are) to know why you have reached your conclusions and on what evidence.

You also mention Kenny Richey and Ronne Biggs.

The only difference I see, is Biggs was Guilty and never denied the fact.

Kenny Richey did deny any wrongdoing and as a result of heavy protests from a certain Scot (Karen Torley) would have faced almost certain death for a crime he never committed

Are you suggesting he should have been hanged or something on evidence you know nothing about ?

Please refrain from making assumptions until you can back them up.
19

typer,

Glasgow 05/07/2009 18:23:39
I wonder if some of the people commenting here would want to see ANYONE convicted of the Lockerbie bombing!
20

Freddie and Bruno,

Paisley 05/07/2009 20:20:33
#19 typer

All of the people commenting on here would like to see the GUILTY convicted of the Lockerbie bombing. It is just that some people, including yourself it seems, want to see ANYONE convicted whether they are guilty or have been set up.
21

Winters,

Glasgow 05/07/2009 20:22:30
Sadly the feelings of the loved ones of the Americans who died on Pan-am flight 103 are ignored by many of the posters. Imagine how Scotland would appear if Kenny MacAskill refused to listen to what they have to say.
There is a view among some that if the Americans say someone is guilty, that in itself is proof of innocance.
22

frank mcbride,

lusitania 05/07/2009 20:43:11
#21, Winters.

Imagine how the Americans, whose loved one have died, would feel if it could be proved that the UK Government and their own had withheld evidence that Megrahi is innocent.

There IS evidence being withheld, this is admitted by by the UK and the US.

Why is it being withheld if it proves Megrahi's guilt?

National security?
23

Observer,,

Glasgow 05/07/2009 20:49:43
The conviction was secured under Scottish law. If we have doubts about the conviction (which I have got to have, given that evidence was witheld and is still being witheld, making the conviction unsafe) then we should speak up about it and let our elected members etc know our views.

We are not being disloyal to the relatives of the victims in doing that, quite the contrary.

24

NOYB,

05/07/2009 23:22:33
How's this for evidence: Megrahi was on Malta the day the plane was bombed, traveling on a false passport, AND he worked for the Libyan secret service, AND he is a close relative of another Libyan who is an admitted terrorist. Prior to the bombing of Pan Am 103, Megrahi is known to have met on more than one occasion with Edwin Bollier, who sold the bomb timer to the Libyans. Bollier attended field observations in Libyan desert where said timers, designed to blow up airliners were tested.
Megrahi may not have acted alone, but he was DEFINITELY involved in blowing up Pan Am 103, and as a result, slautering hundreds of innocent people. He deserves to rot in dire pain in prison without his family.
25

Jim Swire,

UK 06/07/2009 01:30:49
Scottish law convicted this man. Scotland's SCCRC then advised that there might have been a miscarriage of justice and referred the case back for the second appeal. Nine years after the verdict this appeal is now in process at long last, glacial though the pace of it has been so far. Incredibly, the prosecution are still arguing about how much of their material they should share with the defence.
The news that there had been a break-in at Heathrow on the morning of Lockerbie, into the relevant baggage assembly area at that airport was kept from the trial court until after the verdict had been reached, a period of 12 years. Why was that?
No one will tell us.
If Scottish law is to be respected, it MUST re-examine all the old and new evidence itself and reach a final conclusion.
Using the highly political 'Prisoner Transfer Agreement(PTA)' would mean abandoning the appeal. Why I wonder are the politicians of Westminster so keen to stop the appeal?

Let the appeal be completed, that is desperately important for all the relatives, for Scotland's reputation and of course for the prisoner.

Megrahi dying in prison does not aid justice anymore than his release would endanger the public.
Kenny MacAskill could grant him compassionate release instead of using the PTA, then Scotland would be seen as compassionate and the appeal could continue.

The continuation of the appeal must be paramount here: if there is even more evidence against the verdict then surely both we relatives and the Scottish public have a right to hear it. Just as Scottish justice should have the chance to decide once and for all whether it has made a terrible mistake.
26

Electric Hermit,

06/07/2009 01:47:32
25
Jim Swire

We have no way of knowing whether you are the real Jim Swires, of course. From the good sense and compassion expressed, however, I would guess that you are.

I found particularly interesting the option available to Kenny MacAskill to grant compassionate release, allowing the appeal to continue. Surely this the "solution" would suit all concerned. Other than, perhaps, those who have something to hide.

27

2Right,

06/07/2009 02:57:44
# NOYB 24

he is a close relative of another Libyan who is an admitted terrorist.

Megrahi was on Malta the day the plane was bombed

Prior to the bombing of Pan Am 103, Megrahi is known to have met on more than one occasion with Edwin Bollier, who sold the bomb timer to the Libyans.

So are you saying this is enough to convict Megrahi Of Murder>

Are you suggesting our Scottish Courts should convict people by Association ?

Are you saying Libya was the only place Bollier sold Timers to ?

If you knew anything about this case then you would know the timer recovered (Allegedly) has never been used, this is the evidence they are trying to shield.

It has never been soldered and has no explosive residue on it, Can you comprehend what this means ?

You obviously haven't read the findings of SCCRC either because they found no proof Megrahi was in malta on the said date he was alleged to have been there.

They also found contradictions in the evidence of Gauci and the fact he was paid Millions by America allows us to cast aspersions over his reasons for his evidence.

As Jim Swire so rightly points out, why was the evidence about the Hanger at Heathrow being broken into while the cases were inside not disclosed at the time of trial, Surely this was critical and crucial evidence that was withheld (Holland & Sinclair) this alone would have allowed his defence team to attack the most crucial part of the Crown case against him in my view
28

2Right,

06/07/2009 03:18:05
There is no reason why Megrahi should not be allowed Compassionate leave to stay in Scotland.

There have been other very high profile murder accused released on Interim Liberation, why not Megrahi ??

We have every sympathy for the families of those killed so heniously by whoever killed them, but there must be evidence for us to say:- well Here is concrete evidence.

Partial Identifications and known Associates is not enough in this country for a conviction.

Identifications must be Positive not floundering.

I wish the Families every success in their search for Justice and the truth of who killed their loved ones and take my hat off to Jim Swire for his constant search and unwavering fight but most of all his persistence and not allowing his emotions to get in the way of Justice.

How easy would it be for Jim Swire to just say:- Ok Megrahi done it and the courts convicted him so he must be guilty, lets move on now.

No:- he continually fights for what he thinks is right, and he has no confidence in this conviction based on the evidence produced at trial.

Put Shortly:- The trial fell short of convincing him and many others that justice had not been seen to be done.

Free Megrahi now Mr MacAskill and do not lock him up in my name, nor as my representative, for I have no faith in your Justice System, Make my day though and prove me wrong.
29

Fifi la Bonbon,

06/07/2009 06:49:42
#7. and #15 - you haven't said what comments of mine contained personal abuse towards yourself. Yet you haven't explained what, other than my honestly held opinions freely expressed here, means that I would have made an excellent camp guard. You also called the Lord's name in vain.

We should all be able to come here and make comment of the news of the day without insulting remarks being made. I think you should explain what you meant or apologise.
30

hoblar,

06/07/2009 10:40:06
Put up mate....you can't moan when you are content to spoil discussions by talking utter garbage.

Nobody is interested in you or your dire online persona.

If you were a shrinking violet rather than a troll than I am sure you could get away with your chatroom pretensions.

Go away.
31

hoblar,

06/07/2009 10:41:58
The Americans are more prone to support the view of their government, a bit like the uk government when it follows and listens to the American government with regard to invasions.

This conviction is dodgy, the real culprit/s have gotten off.
32

ukrefusenik,

falkirk 06/07/2009 11:47:23
for real culprits read Popular Front for the Liberation of Pales****, although as the intellectually challenged poster "winter" has already said , if the yankees say black 'fusenik thinks white . they and their proxies that currently squat on stolen land in the Levant are THE cause of 90% of the misdirected aggression that afflicts the world . if the nest of thieves that they currently sponsor were deservedly swept into the wastebin of history , outrages like Lockerbie would be rare occurences indeed
33

NOYB,

07/07/2009 04:43:32
# 27 2Right:
So are you saying this is enough to convict Megrahi Of Murder>
Yes. The court found him TWICE guilty – at the trial and at the first appeal.

Are you suggesting our Scottish Courts should convict people by Association ?

I’m saying Megrahi was associated with the Libyan Secret Service and reported to an admitted terrorist. He also lied in his interview with Pierre Sallinger, by saying he had no affiliation with the Libyan government, and that he WAS not on Malta on the day of the bombing. If he is so innocent, why lie?

Are you saying Libya was the only place Bollier sold Timers to ?

No, I didn’t say that. But it IS more than a bit curious that bollier participated in observing the Libyans' use of his timers to blow up airliners. HELLO???

If you knew anything about this case then you would know the timer recovered (Allegedly) has never been used, this is the evidence they are trying to shield.

I know more about this case than most.

It has never been soldered and has no explosive residue on it, Can you comprehend what this means ?

Where are you getting your data? What actual evidence do you have about this? Media reports are NOT evidence. The SCCRC report states:
“The additional submissions also sought to cast doubt on the origin of a fragment of circuit board recovered by forensic scientists which the trial court accepted had been part of the MST-13 timer that triggered the
bomb. Underlying those submissions was the allegation that evidence of the timer fragment had been fabricated in order to implicate Libya in
the bombing. The Commission undertook extensive enquiries in this area but found nothing to support that allegation or to undermine the trial court’s conclusions in respect of the fragment”

You obviously haven't read the findings of SCCRC either because they found no proof Megrahi was in malta on the said date he was alleged to have been there.

YOU had better check your facts. Megrahi traveled on a false passpor
34

NOYB,

07/07/2009 04:46:14
# 27 2Right: continued

YOU had better check your facts. Megrahi traveled on a false passport to Malta and stayed at the Holiday Inn. EVIDENCE pointing to GUILT. If he is innocent, why was he using a false passport and why did he lie about it?

They also found contradictions in the evidence of Gauci and the fact he was paid Millions by America allows us to cast aspersions over his reasons for his evidence.

Have YOU read the SCCRC report? There is no mention of an alleged payment to Gauci in the report. And there is no EVIDENCE of any payment. Period.

As Jim Swire so rightly points out, why was the evidence about the Hanger at Heathrow being broken into while the cases were inside not disclosed at the time of trial, Surely this was critical and crucial evidence that was withheld (Holland & Sinclair) this alone would have allowed his defence team to attack the most crucial part of the Crown case against him in my view

Swire (and Megrahi’s legal team) is/are reaching. Perhaps because they realise they have little to stand on in the current appeal. The Heathrow break-in, as well as reasons for not introducing it at trial were thoroughly covered in Megrahi’s first appeal at Ground of appeal B11. I SUGGEST YOU pay attention to the facts as opposed to the media slime and READ Paragraphs 200-253 of the first appeal. Conclusion: “We accordingly reject
ground of appeal B11.”
35

Fifi la Bonbon,

07/07/2009 18:30:32
Still not a cheep from Observer.

#30, I think you're trying to agree with Observer by taking a disparaging tone. You say that I'm upsetting the "discussion" by talking utter garbage.

I take from this that by "discussion" you mean people who agree with Dr Swire - abd everyone else is just upsetting it.

Well, I continue to take confort in the fact that thw voices of the majority od the relatives of he 270 victi ms are being heard.

I hope that Mr Megrahi's second appeal is heard soon. It is not to be taken for granted that he will win. At the end of the day he isn't the kindly grandfather figure and general philanthropist his new chums are portraying, but a senior Libyan spook with dirty hands. He was fairly convicted by a Scots court and he appealed and lost. Like Mr Biggs and Mr Richey, two other convicts with some strange friends, he should serve the full extent of his sentence.
36

Fifi la Bonbon,

07/07/2009 18:40:30
You know there really isn't a lot of information out there about Me Megrahi's career. We know that he is a former Libyan intelligence officer, head of security for Libyan Arab Airlines, and director of the Center for Strategic Studies in Tripoli. That could portray him as a James Bond type assassin or just some academic type. Yet there was evidence of him jetting about on false passports, false names, and contact with people involved in the supply of terror kit.

So - fearsome terrorist or kindly father figure who just got caught up in a terrible plot and accidentally had four passports? You tell us.
37

Fifi la Bonbon,

08/07/2009 00:05:53
An interesting snippet in the Scotsman.com story on 8th July (comments not accepted) -

"Under the prisoner transfer agreement, if the request were granted, Megrahi would have to abandon his appeal before he could be sent home. Jim Swire urged the alternative of release on compassionate grounds, so the appeal could continue and he and other relatives could learn as much as possible about the bombing."

I read this as Dr Swire putting the appeal, and his own curiosity, above the compassionate issue of prisoner transfer to Libya.

Dr Swire's not just a kindly old character either, is he?

 

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