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It certainly answers a lot of the questions that exist regarding the Scots. I seem to recall reading that this tribe also carried the stone of destiny with them.What about Boardman the historian, what kind of guff is he spouting. For him to provide a few ideas would be very helpful given his dismissal of what is some very impressive and credible historical data, and physical evidence.Surely modern DNA testing can help establish this.The Scots have prevailed in history no matter what has been thrown against them, and we will continue to do so. That strength of character, pride and stamina shows that our pedigree comes from people who are cultured and intelligent and know instinctively how to survive and foster there generations. Our pedigree has shown that through history, as many have found to there cost.
Boardman says of Ellis's research that to "search for historical figures is just madness. It's never going to work".
Self-fulfilling.
The 'Scota' hypothesis is nothing new and not least must suffer from Manetho's error of half-a-millennium in his Egyptian chronology. 'Lost' 1971 datings by the British Museum of seeds and reeds found in 18th Dynasty Tutankhamen's tomb registered ca. 850 BC instead of an expected ca. 1200 BC, and Aeneas escaped the Trojan Wars to Carthage ca. 1250 BC, yet traditionally founded Rome ca. 750 BC, etc. Chronology aside, my best read on Scytho-Scottish origins has been the 'Phoenician Origins of Britons, Scots and Anglo-Saxons' by Scots historian Prof. Lawrence A. Waddell.
Never the less. According to Magnus Magnusson history evolves as new evidence and techniques become available.The Scots have been to strong a culture and race in History just to have walked out of the mist. There are to many questions unanswered.The gaelic language, which it is claimed came form The Garden of Eden! Who can sit through a gaelic free church service and not wonder at the haunting sounds that are so similar to those heard in the middle east, and particular in Egypt.Where does the names, Scot, Scotti, Scota appear from in history?What is the origin of the Stone of Destiny? Which incidently is buried under the byre of my uncle Hectors croft.We can easily trace the origins of the English, why does the true origins of the Scots arouse so much ire?Could DNA be used to find out the answers?Why would educated and learned men include this in The Declaration of Arbroath?It is indeed a fascinating subject. Could such a tale come from mythology, it seems unlikely.
There is so much evidence not even touched upon. For example, Dundee Utd fans have always been known as the Arabs, the name Alasdair is obviously an elongation of Ali, the song Ali-Balibee ( an ancient Egyptian title if ever there was one), must be named in someone's honour and what about the Pharaoh Isles?Then there is West (of the) Nile Street. Its all out there awaiting research.
The ancient Egyptians were orange-skinned people who went about wearing revealing clothes and excessive jewellery. A stroll down Paisley High Street will confirm the genetic link.
And there was me thinking there was intelligent life out there. There are more brain cells amongst the prawns in the Minch.
Why not do one of these DNA/genetic studies and find out?
Angus Og 5 "questions that exist regarding the Scots": Hah! The Scots ARE the Almighty's questions for the world. Whyn't think you so much of its intellectual heritage has come through them, far past expectation of mere numbers -- much like the Jews.
"a gaelic free church service and not wonder at the haunting sounds that are so similar to those heard in the middle east, and particular in Egypt": Even today, listen to the music of the Coptic liturgy. The first arrival of monasticism, whatever Post-Reformation Scots Presbyterian sensibilities may think of it, with its powerful heritage and legacy of literacy and learning, in the British Isles was in the 4th C. with Coptic missionaries. (There is also the link Willie Ruff at Princeton University (originally Presbyterian school) poses of Scots Presbyterian Gaelic psalm-singing and Black gospel, reported in the Scotsman sometime back -- another link is http://hnn.us/readcomment.php?id=17599&bheaders=1 -- but that is another chapter in the story.)
The origins of tartan and plaid are immediately evident to anyone who has seen a sheet of papyrus with its two layers of sets of strips at right angles to one another. Characteristically, it was the Celts who having songs and thus no need for writing improved the medium and its pattern through application of colours.
"Could DNA be used to find out the answers?" and Mhairi 10 "do one of these DNA/genetic studies and find out": Genomic analysis is slowly fleshing out the shared stories of us all.
One day kinsmen Morris and Howard were talking about their family history. Morris asked, "Howard, was Abraham historical or merely mythical?" Howard answered, "No, Morris, the question is, 'Is Abraham mythical or merely historical?'"
Whether from Scotland, Gaelic colonists on Anatolia (where T
The first mention of the Scotti I believe was by Herodutus,along with the Keltoi,tribes around the Black Sea area.The original Ancient Egyptians survive to this day as the Christian Copts of Egypt.People persecuted by the the present Arabic peoples who conquered Egypt by the Islamic conquests of Mohammad.
The word Egypt means" People of Ptah",the God they worshipped.Myths records that the many animal gods worshipped by the Ancient Egytians were minor gods who were fleeing the wrath of "Ra" the Most High God. and to escape changed themselves into animals.They dislodged the worship of Ptah.
The absence of heiroglyphs and pictographs of the gods with animal heads in the Great Pyramid would suggest that it was built prior to to Akenaten,and he actually tried to return Egypt to its original monotheism.
The Spartans a redhaired light skinned people were recorded by Josephus as actually being kin of the Jews as recorded in the Jerusalem Temple.If the Keltoi and Scotti are the progenitors of the Scots and Celts,I suspect they are actually related to the ten missing tribes of Israel,or descendents of Esau,who was Jacob's(Israel) brother,a redhaired warrior who sold his birthright for a bowl of porridge.That sounds like a Scot to me! lol.
I have descendant's from Scotland and Ireland so all this make's me wonder why I've been having the dream's I've been having about Egypt...I've also been trying to track my descentant's through my last name and now I know I will find something interesting.I think that Walter Bower has found a gold mine in his research and I would really like to contact with him on this and add my side of the story.
Huguenot, thank you for your refreshing views. It is certainly something to consider and that I will. I do not profess to be a scholar, and there is a lot I want to know.For the first time in my life I have almost finished reading a history book, which came as a shock to me as I was bored rigid at school with it.The book is, Scotland the Story of a Nation by Magnus Magnusson. And I have not been able to stop reading it, except of course when the football is on the radio. It really is the most engrossing book I have ever read. His writing style has a lot to do with it, but there is so much intrigue in there as well.Thank you for the links, more grist to the mill!The similarity between the papyrus sheet and tartan is interesting. I remember been shown that at school by a Gaelic teacher.The link between No8 and wind is spot on. No's 6 and 7 probably work on the same farm.
All this about the possibility of Ancient Egyptian heritage added to the Scottish heritage may be hogwash. But, for year my sister has maintained that she and I were brother and sister in Ancient Egypt. Also, as far as a historical prospective, I have only had two interested in any historic periods, one is Scotland, the second is Egypt. I don't know, but it would be interesting to find out.
It only seems logical an independent Scotland would have right to a portion of the Suez Canal. After all, it's the homeland.
If DNA tests prove Bower et al right, then there is a big lesson for the whole world to learn. To think that a people like the Scots could have there origin from Africa tells the world that we should be more tolerant of each other.
Angus, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Gaelic in any its various forms sounds nothing like Arabic. Arabic is a Semitic language and Gaelic is nothing of the kind. In fact, there's nothing gutteral about any of the Gaelic forms, whereas all Semitic languages have that as their trademark. However, the ancient Egyptians did not speak Arabic or anything approaching it. There was a myth proferred by Geoffrey of MOnmouth, I think, that the Britons were the descendants of the refugees of Troy. But that would place them in Asia Minor (Turkey) not Egypt, which sounds more likely.
Curiosity not disappointment at all, Semitic seems to be a broad church now.In linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical "Shem", Hebrew, translated as "name") was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Assyrian, Akkadian, Hebrew, Maltese, Syriac, Tigrinya, etc.As language studies are interwoven with cultural studies, the term also came to describe the extended cultures and ethnicity's, as well as the history of these varied peoples as associated by close geographic and linguistic distribution. The late 19th century term "anti-Semitism" came to be used in reference specifically to anti-Jewish sentiment, further complicating the understood meaning and boundaries of the term.I am not fluent in Gaelic, I can swear magnificently, and my granny used to scold me in Gaelic when she was angry, and by God she was guttural. Since guttural is not entirely subjective it is hard to see where you are coming from. Having been taught to sing in Gaelic for competitions a lot of emphasis was placed on guttural sounds. Example; there are not many non native Scots who pronounce 'loch' properly. The closest they get is 'lock.' There are many other Scots and Gaelic words that share this sound. Broch. Och. Having been born and bred in Gaeldom and worked in the middle east, I can say honestly that I have been struck by many of the sounds and other eccentricities in both cultures that are very alike.What language did ancient Egypt have long black veil?Are you Arabic?
Looks like 'Long black veil' has just spoiled Angus Og's dream of a stake in the Garden of Eden. He will now just have to be content with uncle Hector's croft, at least until he reads a second book.
Frances from Canada, every thing I have read up to now makes me agree with what you wrote.This is the first real debate I have taken part in, as most people say we came from Ireland and that is it. I take it you are referring to the Coptis and the Coptic Church, which is the oldest recorded language. They use Coptic as there liturgic language, which is the way Gaelic seems to be heading.
long black veil 18 "Gaelic in any its various forms sounds nothing like Arabic": Spot on, as Angus might say, nor did Angus Og make any assertion otherwise to merit such rebuttal. The closest AO comes is, "sounds that are so similar to those heard in the middle east," which I took to refer to the FCoS Gaelic hymnody which is entirely vocal, I believe, without any instruments, Psalm-singing, rather than a comparison between pronunciations, whether Gaelic, Arabic, or any other languages, Semitic, Goidelic, or aught else. However, the Egyptian language Coptic (entirely different as long black veil acknowledges) continues to this day in the liturgy and communities of Christians in Egypt, who constitute nearly as old a tradition in the church as any, regarding its first organized presence in Egypt to be from a new church development in Alexandria by the apostle Mark about 20 years after the execution of Jesus of Nazareth. A comparison between Gaelic and Coptic pronunciation is, in any case, as I understand AO's comment, not of issue.
There is another intriguing Egyptian-Scottish tie, whether verging on sophistry, indicated by the stylised beards on the chins of the Pharaonic images (including the one pictured with this article) as a conventional indication of status. My understanding that they appear also on images of some few female pharaohs as well. These "beards" were not about gender, but emblems indicating authority.
Now this is where it gets interesting: The Hebrew word typically translated "elders" in English is ""zaqenim," meaning, literally, "bearded ones," and became in the first translation (Septuagint, for the Seventy who did it; incidentally in Alexandria, Egypt, but that's another story) of the Hebrew scriptures into another language, Greek, and designated the Septuagint) "presbyteroi," whence the the "presbyterian" polity of (surprise, surprise!)
Hello Angus Og,I was referring to the Coptic Church,but also the Copts. Having said that I am not an expert and can only relay what I have learned from travel.I am inclined to think that the Pyramids were not built by Khafre or Khufu of the 4th Dynasty 2575 B.C, but are much older,perhaps up to 10,000 years old.Which would predate recorded history.When Abraham visited Egypt they were already thousands of years old.Hugueonot,'stylized beards 'were worn by female Pharahos,the magnificant 'Temple of Hatshepsut' shows her with a beard,a symbol of power.I believe the Ptolemic Queen Cleopatra actually wore one as well.
Angus I was struck by Ancient Greece being known as 'Achea,'and their warriors were called the "Long Haired Acheans" Achea in Greek means goatherder,which raises the question were these peoples related to Abraham and Lot,who had vast herds of goats,and did they cross into Greece? The Royal Standard of Scotland has a Red Rampant Lion on a yellow background,so does the tribe of Judah.Ancient Kings of Scotland I believe were elected by a council and anointed by an Elder,over the Stone of Destiny.This is very similar to the ancient Semitic tribesThe custom of primogeniture was introdued by the Normans.I understand all this may mean nothing but it is interesting to look at history outside the box.Good wishes.
If history teaches us anything about GREAT CIVILISATIONS its one thing.......... The people get wise to a small elite that run them and boot them out
Kimberly and Gregory USA - my gran used to have dreams about egypt as well, that's interesting to see you say something very similar.
The relucatance of some other US posters to accept our (Scottish) possible egyptian origins is more reflective of their relucatance to associate with semitic peoples given the current political climate. That's sad.
If there's one thing to learn from this possiblity it's that we're ALL pretty much each others brothers and sisters...black, white, muslim, christian and jew.
Article "this royal family was expelled from Egypt during a time of great uprising" & Frances 23 "a beard,a symbol of power": So are we to take it that they escaped, whether by the skin of their teeth, but by the hair of their chinnychinchins, a term which, given the inventive things Gaelic does compressing consonants and syllables (and note well how the word observes caol ri caol), perhaps it is the origin of the name of AO's The Minch?
Berry 25 "relucatance ... (Scottish) possible egyptian origins ... with semitic peoples": Well, they got a big problem being as how Jesus' boys and them turning the world all upside down and all and a good part of Europe and the "West" and maybe all of Scotland being put back together with all that that they put down on paper were all Jewish. Well, Luke may not have been, but then again maybe he was too and his folks just sent him to a good Hellenistic medical school to learn doing doctor things.
I do, however, regret how the term "antisemitism" gets superappropriated exclusively to the descendents of Abraham's son Yitzhak rather than all those of Noah's son Shem. (cf. AO 19 "Semitic seems to be a broad church now.") More accurate and clear would be "anti-Judaism," but that would open the Christian and Jew dialogue up to the possibiliity of "anti-Christianism" with connotations embarrassing for all of the antichrist, and maybe even let Muslims eavesdrop on the converasation, and we'd all end up going to a fight and having a football match break out.
Denying Arabs or Muslims a name for the demon antisemitism when they are the objects of its ethnic bigotry compounds the insult to their history and identity by a further depriving of them, and I think to the Jews' and all others' as well.
An interesting web page on the topic of Scota is:http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2003/thr...
Maybe Israel is waking up? (see Romans 11:7-8)
Thanks Derek. That is the first time I heard of any geological evidence, it had often occurred to me that proper tests should be done. I can understand why the Archbishop would not want it done.There is no guarantee that the stone that is back in Scotland is the original after the plundering and retrieval and all that happened to it.A lot of importance has been attached to it however, so it is a very significant piece of the jigsaw.I often wondered about the Red Hand of Ulster also. We take so much for granted without really thinking, why!
Frances from Canada.Primogenture has it's advantages, but not if you are the second born. The founding fathers of the Americas arrived there as a result of having no inheritance at home. Yet it caused a civil war here.
Every time you go back a generation in your family tree, the number of ancestors you have multiplies by two. i.e., 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 gt-grandparents etc. For the sake of arguement, a generation is about 25 years.
By the time you get back to 1100, you have roughly 5 billion different ancestors, theoretically alive at the same time. This is impossible because a) there weren't 5 billion people in the world in 1100, b) many societies were very isolated, with little contact with the outside world c) a lot of the people alive in 1100 died without reproducing.
Ergo, we can draw two conclusions. Firstly, it's fairly demonstrable that we're all highly inbred. Secondly, we probably have lines of descent going all over the world, through what movement of peoples did take place and some degree of genetic drift.
I'm a fairly pure-bred Scot. All 16 of my gt-gt-grandparents were born here. However, I could reasonably confidently say that, in 1100, my ancestors would have included Africans, Arabs, Mongols, Indians, Native Americans and any other interesting array of races and peoples. This blood is thoroughly diluted by my majority of good, pale, peely-wally Celtic ancestry, of course, so you couldn't see it. It probably is there, however.
Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if we were descended from the pharaohs. But I'd venture that if we are, there are more mundane explainations than some massive pharonic migration to Scotland. If there's ancient Egyptian blood in Scotland, it has come here through trade, diplomacy, intermarriage and war over thousands of years.
This would be extremely easy to support, if true, by some simple genetic tests. The genographic project could help. Just need to do mtDNA and Y chromosome analysis on the Egyptian and Scottish population with a high n value (number of individuals) to be significant. I'd love to see the results.
JW,Scientist,USA
The origin of the Scots? It was a big alien what done it and ran away.
The ancient mines and citadels on the Rio Tinto River of southern Spain date back to at least 2000 B.C., and the ancient name of the Rio Tinto River was the Iber River, so I don't think Hiber of Scota (circa 1300 B.C.) is the namesake of Iberia, it must be named after someone else.
A good candidate is Eber, who was five generations before Abraham.
WOW, it is interesting that such a small article has generated such a lot of interest and comments.
Like Kim (13), I have also had a number of dreams about Egypt, but I just put those to the museum exhibits I've seen at Royal Ontario Musueum and Royal BC Museum (RBCM was from the British Museum) and the various documentary's seen regarding ancient Egypt. Maybe there is more to it, as I have had the sense of "deja vu" and "this is not the right setting" for household artifacts which were on display.
It could also explain why both my father (purebred scot) and I (sassenach mum) have such fascination with Egyptian history. Both our fascinations have been there since we were children.
Supposedly, through the testing of mitochondrial (sp) DNA (the mother's line), the world is linked to seven "Eve's", if science could pinpoint the Eve who is related to Egypt and then test a large population of Scot's they could find their answer.
Needless to say, it would be interesting to see if this story/report can be substantiated. Just hope that there are no Chimera's in the test (oh, CSI and House :-) ).
The ancestors of the people of Scotland did sail there from the eastern Mediterranean, across a huge expanse of water (presuming they didn't putter along the coast the whole way), so their ships were ships (not skin covered tubs), and they navigated by the methodology described in article #2 at www.IceCivilizations.com.
The work of author Ralph Ellis (who is mentioned in the above article) was instrumental to the deduction of article #2, the part about 22/7 x 40/40, to establish the numbers of royal cubits for the dimensions of the Great Pyramid), so he may have some valuable input about all this for us.
I have thought this a possibility for about twenty years now, after experiencing a sort of 'vision' in which I was standing in the prow of a ship wearing ancient Egyptian stle clothes, in this 'vision' I knew insinctively that I was a warrior priest of Thebes who had come to the land (Scotland) seeking refuge and to spread knowledge and healing...On another point, I passed through Dumfries a few months back, and was amzed at the image of "St. Michael" who is on a sort of old tolbooth type building in the centre of the town. I must admit upon first seeing this that I was struck by how similar it was to Assyrian bas-reliefs, including the beard etc. I know it is of no great age, but whoever designed it I feel was definately familiar with Assyrian imagery, therein lies the puzzle, why choose this style of representing the Archangel Michael, when at the time there were many that correspond to our modern view/time of the enlightenment/Illuminati etc.
Wasn't Londinium named after King Lud from around 200 B.C.?
Wups, the link at post #35 should be www.IceAgeCivilizations.com, my apologies.
Interesting comments. May i suggest you explore the works of Michael Tsarion, and Zecharia Sitchin.According to Mr. Sitchin's books, the aztec calendar has a couple of "ages" of interest. One, the "age of the red-haired ones" and the "age of the white giants". I think you will find these fascinating. Mr. Tsarion has a compelling theory of the spread of celtic culture after the deluge. Happy Googling!
MacDonald DNA Project news
http://electricscotland.com/webclans/m/macdonald_genetic.htm
This is all very interesting while not entirely new to me. I've heard Scots came from that area some time ago, but the version I knew was something to the effect of Iber being a Scythian from the Black Sea region working as a mercenary with a bunch of other Scythians in Egypt at the time of the Exodus. Then after the exodus there was a lot of insecurity for foreigners in Egypt and the Scythians left, landed in Spain and from there on the stories are the same (and I'll say the real old Spannish are not all that different from you folks, I'm 1/4 Scotish on my dad's side and 1/2 Spanish on mom's side and I and most of my Spanish family are indisitinguisheable from the Scotttish side, lol. Except for my Mom who always gets pegged as Itallian for some reason (Roman?))This is an interesting new version, and with anything of that age I would expect there to be a few variations floating around. Hopefully someone can work out very nearly the truth one day.I'd recommend the book After The Flood (Bill Cooper B.A. Hons. internet addition available free here: http://www.ldolphin.org/cooper/) as excelent reading on early Euorpeans. I got sick of the vague non-history found in most text books for anything earlier than Roman occupation and have been facinated by how much documentation there really is for those peoples. It's just been mostly ignored and thrown out because of its mention of people found in the table of nations, withoug even a through investigation.
Go to my website: http://www.mythomorph.com and then click on the "Articles Archive" link to upper right, you'll find a list of quite a few of the articles I have written over the past half-dozen years or so, several of them set in such nearby places as Rosslyn Chapel, Temple, and North Berwick. The one that talks most about the Scottish/Egyptian connection is titled "The Pyramids of Scotland."
All Best!
Jeff Nisbet
Im glad to see what ive known for a long time finally come to light. This link is to a wonderfull bookthat sheds deeper understanding of history & heritage. written almost 100 yrs ago. Copy & paste if the link dosnt work.
http://www.giveshare.org/israel/judah/
Well there is that mountain on Skye that from a certain direction looks like a pyramid....
The 'temple' hasn't been mentioned yet..
What about all the masons, who built it. They are at least the inheritors of the knowledge and it's no big secret that Scotland is home to the 'Ancient & Free' masons..
You don't even have to be blood related to inherit the result of past actions.
Very deep, ha ha.
Mog 41 Cooper: Regrettably Cooper starts off mangling the citation for Josephus'a Antiquities as "The Sybil (Josephus. Antiq. i. 5.)" when it should indicate better something like, "Josephus. Antiq. I.4.3." Suggestion that "The Sibyl" is a separate work or heading is misleading.
The indicated reading in I.4.3 is, "The Sibyl also makes mention of this tower, and of the confusion of the language, when she says thus: 'When all men were of one language, some of them built a high tower, as if they would thereby ascend up to heaven, but the gods sent storms of wind and overthrew the tower, and gave every one his peculiar language; and for this reason it was that the city was called Babylon.'"
Thus evidently not only Babylon "confusion of language" ...
Do such "things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship" (Colossians 2:23) and "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith" (1 Timothy 1:4), "But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness" (1 Timothy 4:7), and "And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." (2 Timothy 4:4)?
I suspect there is a lot of nonsense here about the Scottish-Egyptian tie, but even so, it's most charming nonsense.
Apart from Professor Udlum's not being able to take a pea (Derek 27 http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2003/thr...), are there any protocol descriptions available of the Stone of Coronation, going beyond its gross specimen characteristics such as dimensions and weight, to morphological descriptions of appearance such as whether igneous (ee. gg., granite, basalt), sedimentary (limestone, sandstone), or metamorphic (shale, slate, marble, breccia);
The Scotsman's Diane Maclean has certainly set the heather (oop!) on fire. What a great debate! Try this for size! The Scots, Picts AND Egyptians all have Magyarok/Honcara/Hungarian/Phoenician/Hunotian/Akkad-Sumerian origins. Magyar for 'Kith (and) Kin' is 'Kit (and) Kin'. In Magyar, the mysterious title 'Ur' in 14 of the line of 29 successive Pictish kings means 'Lord'. The Cassi tribe that sent Julius Caesar packing c. 55 BC would be descendants of Magyar 'Kazi' who built 'Isten Henger', wrongly named Stonehenge, and other megalithics, shortly after Sargon the Ist of Akkad-Sumeria populated southern 'Baratannia' to ensure supplies of tin to make bronze, a metal that in due course lost out to the iron weapons of the Eskitus-Scythian-Scots of northern Europe. All the Pictish tribes had Magyar names. The Basque people, the 'Eskaldun or Eskotarrak', surely matches Caledonni and Scotsmen. Accordng to L. A. Waddell. 60% of the elements of Old English are of Sumerian origin, etc.... In short, the real and royal origin of the Scottish-Eskitus nation has been covered up!
The Egyptologist Lorraine Evans has discussed archaeological finds,history,legend etc pertaining to the Irish/Scots Gael origin story of Scota in her thesis' Kingdom of the Ark' ,published a few years ago,also the Establishment's aversion to her academic research and finds, all of which fascinating! Prof. Bryan Sykes lives between the Isle of Skye and London, and has published his work on DNA:he is well aware of our origin stories ,his last and forthcoming books are important -'Adam's Curse' and 'The Blood of the Isles' . Scotland is a DNA Scientists' paradise because of our ancient oral history,naming patterns and small genetic pool. Pat Barker's 'The Stone of Destiny' is an easy introduction to its' story. The Archivist and Historian at Scone Palace,Perth will tell you that the Scots had 6 weeks notice of King Edward's coming here to steal the stone:ample time to replicate it ,using Perthshire sandstone,or, if you prefer,removing the lid to the communal cesspit and offering it up as the stone! The stone,, in our legend, was a meteor,black,covered in 'strange glyphs' ,and was a separate stone to the Coronation stone:a second stone.
I've heard the story of the lid of the communal cesspit. Kind of lends new meaning to the expression "sitting on the throne!"
Jeff
http://www.mythomorph.com/mm/content/2004/0215the_pyramid...
Message to Ralph Ellis, author of book under discussion:
You might already know this, Ralph, but a link to this story has just been posted on Graham Hancock's site, and a discussion is under way.
Can't keep away from here. FAY GOVAN NO.7.Very observant post. I have friends in Govan who refer to the, "man fae Cairo."Alas upon further enquiry it is Govan rhyming slang for the weekly Social Security Giro.Have you been on the passenger ferry that runs between Jamaica Quay and Braehead. The Pride o The Clyde, owned by Alex and Jennifer Gilmour. I was on there one day and the on board commentary said as we past Govan Parish Church. "When the Romans arrived in Govan the local tribe was armed with metal swords and spears." A passenger was overheard saying,"No change there then."Really I like Govan, friendly people, and they have managed to hang on to there shipyard and still build great ships there.
Ive been studying Egyptian history or some time now, and came upon this story about 10 years ago, while looking for possible links between Scotland and the Pharaohs. While doing my research i came upon a book "Encyclopaedia of Celtic Wisdom by Caitlin and John Matthews"
This book contains transcriptions of several Ancient Irish writtings such as the "Lebor Gabala Erenn (The Book Of The Taking Of Ireland" and "The Yellow Book Of Lecan".
Both of these scripts contain several references to the Sons of Mil whom came to Ireland with Scota.
In the Lebor Gabala Erenn we can find this reference:
Fourty-eight married couples, four servants and Scota, daughter of Pharaoh, accompanied the Sons of Mil across the sea when they went to seek for Ireland."
And in The Yellow Book Of Lecan you can find this:
"Hence we are called Fene from Fenius, that is the Fene, and the Gaels from Goedel Glas, as was said:
The Fene from Fenius are named, meaning without straining, the Gaels from Gaedel glas the hospitable, the Scots from Scota.
Scota, then, the daughter of Pharaoh the king was given as a wife to Nel son of Finius on going into Egypt. So that she is our ancestress, and it is from her we are called Scots."
Steven.
The ancient name for the city whose ruins are now beneath Seville was Tharsis, and Tarshish, of course, was a son of Javan (Iawan, Ionian), who was a son of Japheth (Jupiter).
Posidon means Father of Sidon, and that was Canaan, the first "Phoenician," and Medina Sidona is a district of southern Spain, so we see many corroborations with The Table of Nations.
The book After the Flood by Cooper is a fantastic read about ancient European history.
To Helen, Renfrewahire, Scotland.
You mentioned a "meteor, black, covered in strange glyphs."
This sounds very similar to descriptions and replicas of the "Benben Stone". The Egyptians are said to have kept it at "The Mansion of the Phonix", in Heliopolis, and was placed on the top of a pillar. An image of one replica can be seen here: http://www.delange.org/Egyptian_Museum/Mvc-022s.jpg
Yes, Steven. Looks just a tad uncomfortable to sit on, though ;-)
Several of the obelisks of Heliopolis were taken to Rome. I talk about one of them in my article "Beyond the Lost Caravaggio." I also talk about a chap who lived near Edinburgh -- a William Hamilton Nisbet of Dirleton.
Best!
http://www.mythomorph.com
.Good afternoon everyone, Ralph Ellis (the author) here. I thought I would pick out a few points and try to answer them for you.
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>>If the Keltoi and Scotti are the progenitors of the Scots >>and Celts,I suspect they are actually related to the ten >>missing tribes of Israel,or descendents of Esau,who was >>Jacob's(Israel) brother,a redhaired warrior who sold his >>birthright for a bowl of porridge. That sounds like a >>Scot to me! lol.
Yes indeed, but the Israelites were also Egyptians, as Josephus and Strabo said 2,000 years ago. Remember that the Egyptian priesthood were circumcised, shaven headed, wore earings and curly side-locks of hair (Israelites wore earrings). Their god was also called Aton, while the Israelite god is often called Adon. et: etc:
This 'red-soup' 'red-Esau' story in the Bible makes no sence, until you put it in an Egyptian perspective. In the Egyptian both 'red' and 'soup' sound like 'djesert', but the djesert was also the Red Crown of Lower Egypt. So Jacob was swapping a djestert (soup) for a djesert (Red Crown). The Bible is a story of the Lower Egyptian monarchy. (and djesert also means desert, as in sand and camels, we still use the same words).
>>If DNA tests prove Bower et al right, then there is a >>big lesson for the whole world to learn.
DNA tests on the pharaohs are not allowed at present, as they are scared of the results.
>>Angus, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Gaelic in any >>its various forms sounds nothing like Arabic. Arabic is >>a Semitic language and Gaelic is nothing of the kind.
I have proven that Hebrew (and thus Arabic) is a daughter language of ancient Egyptian, and there are many Egyptian elements in Mycenaean Greek too. I have not looked at Gailic, as I am not familiar with this, and so some research here might be in
Back again..
Did I mention that Mt Sinai was the Great Pyramid? This might sound odd, but if the Israelites were Lower Egyptians, then this is not so odd. If you look at the descriptions of Mt Sinai (especially that black basalt pavement that stood at the base of Mt Sinai) it can only be the Great Pyramid.
In essence the thesis of my other books is that the Bible was the Day Book (diary) of the Hyksos Lower Egyptian royal court, who were separate from the Upper Egyptian court in Luxor.
Thus Phraraoh Jacoba was probably Jacob, and Pharaoh Mam-Aybre was probably Abra-Ham.
(What, did not those 'honest' historians - who rubbish my books - not tell you that biblical names could be found in the Egyptian royal dynasties?)
Likewise, the biblical Exodus was the Hyksos Exodus from Egypt. Take a look at the following points regarding the Hyksos pharaohs of Egypt:
They were known as shepherds. (Shepherd Kings)They wore earrings, hair ringlets and were circumcised.They were involved in a war with the Theban Egyptians.There were storms and darkness. (Tempest stele) Some 500,000 were ejected from Egypt on a great exodus.They set off from Pi-Ramesse (Avaris).They travelled to Jerusalem. (Manetho)They were a mighty military force.They destroyed Jericho.
This might sound like I am describing the biblical exodus, but I am not. This was the exodus of the Hyksos Pharaohs from Egypt - a historical reality known about for centuries. Was this not the event described in the Torah (Bible)?
(What, did not those 'honest' historians - who rubbish my books - not tell you that an identical exodus from Egypt can be found in the historical record?)
Books are:Jesus, Last of the PharaohsEden in EgyptTempest & ExodusSolomon, Falcon of Sheba
CheersRalph Ellis.
>>In Magyar, the mysterious title 'Ur' in 14 of the line of 29 successive Pictish kings means 'Lord'.
And likewise in ancient Egyptian, Ur means 'prince' or 'noble'.
>>You might already know this, Ralph, but a link to this >>story has just been posted on Graham Hancock's site, >>and a discussion is under way.
Couldn't find the discussion, do you have a URL?
CheersRalph
FINDING THE BOOK ON AMAZON
By the way - for anyone looking for this book on Amazon, it is currently listed under the title 'Cleopatra to Christ'.
This is an unusual back-to-back double book - twice the pleasure at half the price. However, Amazon have not quite got the hang of this format as yet!
CheersRalph Ellisralph@edfu-books.comwww.edfu-books.com
Hey Ralph,
Do you see any flaw in the analysis about the methodology used to establish the length of the Egyptian royal cubit in article #2 at www.IceAgeCivilizations.com?
There is a interesting inclusion from the Synod of Whitby suggesting that the Irish priests were still using the Egyptian ritual,and given that the area of Whitby was ruled by York,which had been the southern most part of the Culdean See. It was taken over by a group of irregular canons, the same Canons that built and administered Scone. The last know historical resting place of the real Stone of Destiny,not the piece of Perthshire sandstone that Edward's men found on the altar at Scone,which in fact was the door for the chamber where the real Stone was kept.It even has two iron rings to lift it from the hole in the floor.The Lia Faill is rotunda, cathedrae,confectus ad modem as described by two chronicles at the time of John Balliols coronation,last time it was seen in public. these accounts were written by Walter de Hemingford and Adam De Rishanger.. brought by Fergus the first from Tara to present day Dunstaffanage or the ancient Kingdom of the Scots at Dunadd.. sometime called Berogonium..So it is time you Scythian people to learn your true history and be aware of your real founding stone...Heed not the words of a foreign warlord, who tried to emasculate Scottish culture just as he had in Wales....but never succeeded in possessing the real Bethel stone taken to Egypt by Jacobs Son,Joseph....that is why Scotia remained a independant nation for so long..We were sold out eventually by politicians,so whats new..
Ask the Gypsies they will tell you the story, after all the persecutions of these incredible people, we may all be Jacobs children,as was predicted..
Steve - yes,it does sound like the BenBen stone,which must be very worrying to some peoples,what was it doing in Israel etc -Ralph Ellis has answers. Perhaps Barry Dunford's 'Holy Land of Scotland' book would supply others,see www.sacredconnection.ndo.co.uk Barry includes material from old works,one or more of which have been removed from all U.S. libraries....See also www.clanarthur.co.uk for some other aspects of Scots history that are unpalateable to the Establishment,and consistently ridiculed despite the evidence.
>>Do you see any flaw in the analysis about the >>methodology used to establish the length of the Egyptian >>royal cubit in article #2 at www.IceAgeCivilizations.com?
No, in fact this is EXACTLY the same as I say in my book 'Thoth, Architect of the Universe', written some 8 years ago.
The Great Pyramid is a copy of the 22/7 fractional Pi ratio, which makes the Thoth cubit exactly 52.35 cms
What this site did not point out is that the 1760 cubit circumference of the Great Pyramid is the origin of our 1760 yard mile.
Both are Pi-based units of measure.
The proof? Well, both systems also use a rod length that measures 5.5 yards or cubits. The odd value of 5.5 is due to this being a 1/4 of the Pi numerator of 22.
CheersRalph Ellis
>>The last know historical resting place of the real Stone of >>Destiny, not the piece of Perthshire sandstone that >>Edward's men found on the altar at Scone,which in fact >>was the door for the chamber where the real Stone was >>kept.It even has two iron rings to lift it from the hole in >>the floor.
Indeed, and mythology indicates that it can levitate. Does anyone know any more about these legends?
Every one wants to be egypian or africian. I think it is all bull. i had my dna tested but it still does not conect up with these people. the experts do not want to take DNA from egypitans as they are afraid what show up. Right Everyone hated the Neanderthals until they found out they were not all the dumm ones. And they are lots older than the Egyptians. If you want to write a book get the truth or label it fiction.get it in DNA.
.>>See also www.clanarthur.co.uk for some other aspects >>of Scots history that are unpalateable to the Establishment,>>and consistently ridiculed despite the evidence.
In fact Scotichronicon (and Keating) indicate that the name for Eire came from the original name for Egypt, which was said to be Etheria. The chronicle is nearly right too, for an ancient name for Egypt was actually Aturi(a).
However, if you roll that initial 'a' a little you get Aathuri, or Arthuri. The land of Arthur.
CheersRalph Elliswww.edfu-books.com
>>Every one wants to be egypian or africian. I think it is >>all bull. i had my dna tested but it still does not >>conect up with these people.
The majority of these Hyksos Egyptians (the Israelites) may originally have been immigrants to Egypt (according to the Bible and history).
In addition the vast majority of the Hyksos-Israelites appear to have been expelled from Egypt. Firstly on the Hyksos exodus, secondly on the Amarna (Akhenaton) exodus, and thirdly on the Nebuchadnessar exodus.
In which case, perhaps we should be comparing Scots DNA with:
a. Minoansb. Jewsc. Arabsd. Mycenaean Greeks (link with Sparta)e. Minorcans
RegardsRalph Ellis
About the DAN/geneic study. The Ewing Clan of North America is doing a male DNA/geneic study. One of the men descended from William Ewing of Rockingham Virginia was found to have DNA relating back to the area of modern day Iraq, as far back in history as the father of all Asians and Native Americans. This particular family has a long history there in Scotland. Is this a connection to what you are talking about? Perhaps.
Ralph Ellis, in post #64 you say that my finding in article #2 at www.IceAgeCivilzations.com is "EXACTLY the same" as what's written in your book.
Care to cite a page number? Since you can't, and since you HAVE NOT demonstrated how the Egyptian royal cubit's length was derived from precession measurements (which I have), you're just blowing hot air, your're flat out LYING, so I hope you adjust your specious claim.
It's not nice to lie about what you have (haven't) figured out, so I await your apology and a correction.
Corrected link: www.IceAgeCivilizations.com
And I sure hope Ralph didn't suddenly go on vacation away from this conversation.
Ah, I see that Ralph has posted recently on another board, he should be around shortly.
>>Care to cite a page number? Since you can't, and since >>you HAVE NOT demonstrated how the Egyptian royal >>cubit's length was derived from precession >>measurements (which I have), you're just blowing hot >>air, your're flat out LYING, so I hope you adjust your >>specious claim.
Wow, you do have a redhead's temper (since we are discussing redheads)!
Chap 4 of 'Thoth' demonstrates that the base of the GP is half a Nautical mile (43,200 th of the Earth's circumference). (mentioned in other texts, I think)
Appendix 1 of 'K2' discusses the fact that there are about 25,600 days in one degree of precession and 25,600 years in once precessionary cycle. The basis for this oddity is the same as your arguments - the fact that our degree system is defined by the rotation rate of the Earth.
However, I do not see that the cubit length was determined by this precessionary link. The cubit is simply an Earth-based measurement system related to Pi. (And the 1760 cubit Egyptian mile uses the same units as the 1760 yard Imperial mile).
There happens to be a convenient link between the length of the precessionary cycle and the rotation rate of the Earth because we use a 360 degree circle. Thus your precessionary argument is circular - it would happen to any planet.
>>Is this a connection to what you are talking about?
Well, its half way there. What size of sample was used? There are some who maintain that the Egyptians came from babylon, although myself I think that the migration was in the other direction. Do you have a URL?
Ralph, don't make a monkey's uncle of yourself, your 25,600 years subdivides into what, and then into what, and then into what?
Remeber, 25,600 is your number, the appropriate number is my 25,920.
And why, Ralph, did the ancients select 360 degrees for a circle?
Hey Ralph, I have a riddle for you, what's one Egyptian royal cubit (20.632 inches) times 1,760 times 43,200? It's the circumference length of the earth.
That's of my finding, it shows how the royal cubit derived from the number 25,920, please show us how your 25,600 fits into this simple arithmetic, geometry, and astronomy.
If you plug your number in, it doesn't work.
Ralph, your problem is that you never have demonstrated how the ancients measured the circumference of the earth.
The material in article #2 at www.IceAgeCivilizations.com explains how they did, so read it, understand it, and then you can move on to something else.
>>I have a riddle for you, what's one Egyptian royal cubit >>(20.632 inches) times 1,760 times 43,200? It's the >>circumference length of the earth. That's of my finding,
I seem to remember that that was mentioned in 'Fingerprints of the Gods', which was published back in about '92.
Are you apeing Hancock now?
I have heard this story before of Scota the Egyptian princess before also the one about the Scots being the Lost tribe of Israel and have even jested with my fellow clan cousins that I might have Jewish genes, having traced on paper my roots back to the mid 18th century all from the West coast of Scotland from Dumfreis in the south through Glasgow Argyll and the outer hebrides on the northern most islands it is no surprise that I have lots of Norse genes but having taken the Y test with www.ftdna.com on The Scottish Clans project it identifies me with the settlers of Dalriada from Ireland and links to Spain and Portugal and Germany results also show Ashkenazic origins so who knows perhaps there is something in these old stories.
Jimmy
Hey Ralph, what methodology did the ancients use to establish the length for the Egyptian royal cubit?
Hey Ralph, do you think the ancients accurately measured the dimensions of the earth, and if yes, what methodology do you think they used?
>>having taken the Y test with www.ftdna.com on The >>Scottish Clans project it identifies me with the settlers of >>Dalriada from Ireland and links to Spain and Portugal >>and Germany results also show Ashkenazic origins so >>who knows perhaps there is something in these old stories.
Yes, the Spanish link is interesting here. I note in today's Daily Mail (p35) that Prof Bryan of oxford Uni says that all the Celts are Spanish.
Well, Scotichronicon does say that Scota was exiled from Egypt to Spain, and from there they went to Ireland and Scotland. This is why Spain and Scotland have the same name - Iberia, Hibernia.
I'll take a look at that link.
Ralph, I figured you wouldn't have a rational response to the questions of posts #81 and #82 (since you haven't admitted that my finding is valid), but no response at all?
Woops, I should have said, Ralph, posts #80 and #81.
Ralph,
Go to http://www.clanewing.org/ and read Project Y-DNA and What can Y-DNA tell us about the Ewings? Pardon slow response, haven't been on site for a while.
PS, that's not MY site, but I'm a member
"Britain is inhabited by five races of peoplenthe Norman-french,the Britons,the Saxons,the Picts and the Scots.Of these the Britons once occupied the land fromm sea to sea,before the others came.Then the vengeance of God overtook them because of their arrogance and they submitted to the Picts and Saxons" From Geoffroy of Monmout.
WOW, IT'S SO VERY NICE TO SEE EUROPEANS ACCEPTING THERE AFRICAN HERITAGE.(DESCENDANCY) BUT, WHY IS YOUR WORLD HAS NOT ACCEPTED IT'S PEOPLE? NO MATTER WHERE THEY R NOW. THE TRUE DESENDANTS OF THE ORIGIANAL PEOPLE FROM EGYPT R TRULY AFRICAN. SO, EVEN IF THE PHAROAH WAS AYE OR WHO EVER IT MAY BE. WHY DO U THINK HE WAS CHASED OUT IN AN UPRISING? (BY THE ORIGINALS) IT'S FUNNY TO ME THAT EURO'S CAN CLAIM DESCENDANCY TO THROWNS & LANDS THEY OVER THREW & DISCREDIT THE INDEGINOUS PEOPLE OF THAT LAND.I HONESTLY BELIEVE THIS IS THE BASIS FOR WAR INTHE MIDDLE EAST-DARFUR & SUDAN. THE EURO'S FIND IT VERY CONVENIENT TO MOVE PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD INTO THE HOLY LAND & KEEP DISPLACING THE PALESTINIANS. SAME AS THE ARABS IN SUDAN W/ THE AFRICAN PEOPLE THERE.(WHERE IS THERE LAND?) IF EGYPT BELONGS TO THE SCOTS? & WHERE IS THE LAND OF THE AFRICANS SPREAD OUT ACROSS THE FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH DUE TO SLAVERY? & WHY IS IT U CAN BE LINKED TO IT'S ROYAL HISTORY BUT, NOT IT'S TURBULENT PAST? WILL THE CHILDREN OF THE AFRICAN DIASPORA EVER HAVE A LAND OF THERE OWN? TO GOVERN THEMSELVES UNDER LAWS/GOD THEY BELIEVE & FOLLOW? OR WILL THERE GREAT PAST CONTINUE TO BE RESEARCHED,RE-WRITTEN & RE-CLAIMED BY OTHER PEOPLE? THE SPOILS OF HISTORY GO TO THE VICTOR! TO BE RECORDED AS HE CHOOSES. I TRULY BELIEVE WE R ALL BROTHERS & SISTERS. BUT OUR EURO & ARAB BROTHERS & SISTERS(OUR ANSCESTORS DESCENDANTS) DON'T ACCEPT US AS SUCH. EVEN W/ SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.(DNA) ALL RACES DESCENDED FROM THE BLACK RACE.U HAVE CLAIMED OUR HISTORY & DISOWNED OUR PEOPLE. U RESPECT THE EARTH THAT WILL SWALLOW U IN DEATH BUT CURSE THE VERY PEOPLE WHO GAVE YOU LIFE? WHY? SOMEONE PLEASE RESPOND W/ AN INTELLIGENT RESPONSE! THANK YOU!
