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Prostitution law proposals 'a step back'



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Published Date: 26 August 2008
LOTHIANS MSP Margo MacDonald has warned against a bid to tackle prostitution by outlawing the buying of sex.
She claimed such a move would fail in its objective and could set back the effort to help women quit the trade.

Council and police chiefs in Glasgow are said to be preparing to lobby the Scottish Parliament to adopt the Swedish model of dealing wi
th prostitution – criminalising the purchase of sex, while decriminalising its sale – to make clear prostitution should be regarded as an aspect of male violence against women.

But Ms MacDonald said it would be a mistake to pass such a law.

She claimed the Swedish approach had failed because it had driven prostitution underground so no-one knew what was going on and now the women had returned to the street.

She said: "If the objective is to eliminate prostitution, and that's what they say it is, this will fail.

"In failing to achieve its objective it will probably take us back beyond the point we had reached where you knew you had some point of contact with the women, so that as and when they were ready to exit prostitution you were there to help them.

"And it will make the whole scene more open to criminality and more open to exploitation."





The full article contains 221 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

James (1),

26/08/2008 15:47:57
I am totally against prostitution and do not see these women as victims. They are spongers who claim benefits whilst "working".
Amsterdam has legalised prostitution and still have problems with pimps and drugs so there is no point in making it legal.
These women are not victims and it is not a violence by men against women.

Here is a 100% sure fire guarantee on how these women could be safe....Stop selling yourself!
2

The Dark Side,

26/08/2008 16:21:52
#1 James: only high end escorts do it for the money and would be able to stop selling themselves if they wanted to. The ones walking the streets really have no other source of income sufficient to feed a habit and would be quite incapable of holding down any kind of a regular job. As such, it is extremely unhelpful to classify them as "spongers".

My own preferred solution to the problem in Leith Docks would be the creation of a community owned "sauna", which would not be run on a commercial basis by shady characters, in the manner of numerous other such establishments in Edinburgh, but rather run for and by the girls themselves, perhaps under the auspices of Scotpep.

If punters in cars are to be criminalised, then this will keep the girls in one place as Margo wishes: it's an elaboration on her preferred "tolerance zone" scheme, if you like. Girls who persisted in soliciting on street corners could be discretely redirected to the community sauna, rather than being forced to shrug off yet another ASBO.
3

Sideshow Bob 2,

26/08/2008 16:46:48
#2: I see you've come up with a new spin on the already established Edinburgh Bicycle Cooperative
4

James (1),

26/08/2008 20:56:02
#2 Run by SCOTPEP! This self interest group does NOTHING to get women off the game so why would you choose of all the help groups available this chocolate fireguard to try and assist?
I see them as the arsonist firefighter!

Quote from Scotpep on their services "NOT attempt to persuade you to leave prostitution but will provide support if you wish to do so"
So if they do not want to leave then that is ok with Scotpep? Their cry is just be safe and mines is just be lawful! Protitution is illegal so we need to stamp it out!
Non jugdgmental is not what we need.

We could get Scotpep to help drug dealers as well!
Get them to give advice on how best to cut your drugs to get the most money for what they have. If you want to stop using then that would be ok! Its up to you!

These people who work are do gooders who are so gullible that they are easy targets.
Prostitutes could tell them anything fiction and they would take it in and put it out as fact.

Legalising is not what is needed (Amstedam) but some want to try it because it is the easy option.
5

privateer,

Scotland 26/08/2008 23:19:30
Reading your contributions I see you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, well maybe from an armchair point of view. Can I just point out, at the moment it is legal to buy and sell sex, it is the varying laws around it which make certain aspects illegal eg. soliciting.
The issues involved in prostitution are extremely complex and there is no simple solution as there are so many levels to the industry - hell, crusaders with their varying theories have been trying to solve it for milleniums and to no avail. AS someone who has had contact with ScotPep I find the service they provide to be invaluable to prostitutes working in all areas of the industry within Scotland, be it parlour/sauna, street or escorts. And whilst some may find their stance of 'NOT attempt to persuade you to leave prostitution but will provide support if you wish to do so', to be incomprehensible then that's because you have a limited understanding of the men and women involved. Anyone wanting to give any form of support would completely alienate those they are trying to help if they chose to preach the 'let us save you' mantre.
In an ideal world there would be enough funding to financially support those working the streets to either buy their own drugs (should they be dependent), get into good rehab programs, pay the various bills/debts they have, or give them a clear way out of prostitution but it isn't the case. Do you seriously think many of the streetgirls actually have real options to to something else ? Scotpep have extremely limited funding, to the point they have to depend upon donations and their own fundraising efforts. The idea is damage limitation as opposed to salvation.
It's also important to remember that there are women who are working of their own free will in prostitution, who are not drug dependent, who pay taxes and are pretty much an invisible side of the industry but who depend upon it being legal to purchase sex. Many of these women have qualificatio
6

privateer,

Scotland 26/08/2008 23:21:34
..... qualifications and skills and have sometimes left careers in order to pursue work in escorting, some have escorting as a 'hobby' and still work full-time. Because of the diversity of those buying and selling sex (very few men actually fit the stereotypical punter), it is important that all areas are looked at before anyone starts to change laws which will have a negative impact on the industry. The end game should be that every woman/man should have the choice to do with their body as they want, work as safely as possible and have to law as protection.
7

James (1),

27/08/2008 01:40:36
#5 It is not legal to buy and sell sex because if it was we would not be having this discussion. You can split it up to try to make it seem legal but if someone is approached by a prostitute and offered sex we have an illegal situation. Where they do it impacts on residents. (Remember them? Tax paying law abiding citizens.)
The issues involving these women is only complex due to it not being clamped down on. Now that Lothian & Borders Polices current Deputy Chief Constable is not turning a blind eye to it has it given peace to residents plagued by these women.
Scotpep are useless! If you are not willing to attempt to persuade then you are of no use. These women do not need support they need a real job. Unfortunately that would mean paying tax and discipline.
Where is this “ideal world” that you have enough to fund you drug buying habit. There appears to be a distinct lack by you of what is acceptable in normal society. Buying drugs is not acceptable nor are the people who do it considered normal. I am certainly not for making life easier for these women so they get their drugs. If a immigrant to this country can come here, get a job and contribute to society then I see absolutely no reason why a prostitute cannot. We make choices in life and these women made theirs. If they cannot be persuaded (which takes Scotpep out the equation) to change their life style then it is THEIR choice so don’t expect me to feel one ounce of pity for their bad judgment. Women prostitutes who are paying taxes? Yes I am sure there are 100’s of them just as I am sure that the fairies at the bottom of my garden do a good job keeping the elves in order.
8

Brian Hill,

27/08/2008 02:58:59
As usual Margo has her feet on the ground and displays her brand of compassion.

History shows us that prohibition tends to fail and that which is prohibited becomes managed instead.

9

privateer,

Scotland 27/08/2008 13:04:31
James, the selling of sex IS legal in the UK, but there are various ways in which it is illegal to sell it - the soliciting for sex is illegal - hence the police have powers to arrest kerbcrawlers and girls who work the streets, two girls or more working out of a flat is illegal as it constitutes a brothel. Any prostitute working on their own, behind closed doors is carrying out a perfectly legal business transaction at the moment.
Personally, I don't find men paying drug addicted women for sex acceptable in any way shape or form, and demand in this area should not exist. I don't think residents should have to put up with condoms in gardens, drug dealers and kerbcrawlers approaching members of the public asking them if 'they are looking business', or any other anti-social behaviour which goes with the street-scene.
If a man wants to pay for sexual services there are other alternatives such as parlours/saunas/flats/escorts, which are away from the public eye.
The problem with addicted streetgirls is they usually live quite chaotic lives. Try reading the Barnados report on streetgirls you may get a little insight into the lives and backgrounds of these girls - not that I am expecting any sympathy or compassion from you but it may give you a bit of an insight into why some such as Scotpep choose to take a stand to help streetgirls. In your eyes Scotpep probably are useless but they are there to help prostitutes not you and for many women working in the sex industry, at all levels they are an important resource.
As for paying taxes, no not living in La-la land - many escorts are. If look around the internet you'll find websites dedicated to helping and informing those in the sex industry how to go about paying taxes, and girls will happily pass on details of accountants who will assist with tax returns. Even the tax offices are more than happy to give advice.
As for what is acceptable in society listen not to the vociferous minority but the sil
10

privateer,

Scotland 27/08/2008 13:07:01
Above sentence should end 'silent majority'.
11

James (1),

27/08/2008 19:14:02
#9 you certainly jump about a bit! We have women selling their bodies to pay for drugs? Yes/No? The answer is yes so they are not going to pay any tax whatsoever. The WILL claim benefit (or is that just me being cynical?). So the place you reside is La la land.
Scotpep are funded by public money (which means by law abiding people who do not want prostitutes selling their wares outside residental flats).
Scotpep are the "I feel your pain!" types. Absolutely useless. Waste of money and the funding they get should go to another group that will actually try to get the women off the streets.
You are right however when you say I am not interested in these womens life style. I could not care less! Their life choice is exactly that! It is when it impacts on others that I become less than charitable towards these women.
My view is they are parasites on society.
12

privateer,

Scotland 28/08/2008 15:27:35
James, maybe if I simplify things you may be able to understand what I am saying, here it comes - street prostitution is only a fraction of the sex industry and whilst the majority, but not all women involved in the street part may be addicted to drugs this isn't the case for those who work in different areas ie. parlours, flats, escorting - agency or, independent, saunas. Have you now grasped street prostitution isn't the only prostitution which exists ?
As for 'they are parasites on society', you obviously haven't grasped the fundamentals of how capitalism works - those at the top feed off those underneath getting richer and fatter, those at the bottom take what scraps they can. Those at the top brainwash those in the middle (yourself?) by foisting responsibility for the ills in society on those at the bottom.
13

James (1),

28/08/2008 17:58:26
#12 read slowly please! Prostitution that we are talking about is STREET PROSTITUTION!
Did that come as a surprise to you?
Tolerance zones for ....STREET PROSTITUTION!
Penny dropped yet?
STREET PROSTITUTION is the problem and tree huggers want to have pity on these women. Their choice, not mine however!
These women were moved from Coburg Street to Leith Links to Salamander Street. Why? They should have been hounded out of business by now.
Their "trade" (yet another attempt to make it seem like they are working)helps only them. They are the dregs of society BUT they have had the offer of help. Ask Scotpep is this is not the case. They choose to ignore it and I choose to ignore them. I would close Scotpep in the blink of an eye for all the use they are.

 

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