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Wednesday, 9th December 2009

Journey of the city's mock tram pulls in punters

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Published Date: 21 October 2009
A REPLICA tram which has been touring Edinburgh to drum-up support for the embattled project has been visited by more than 130,000 people, it was revealed today.
The mock-up has been one of the city's most popular attractions since it went on view in Princes Street in February. Since then, it has spent time in Constitution Street and Ocean Terminal and is now outside the Caledonian Hotel.

It is expected that the life-size model will move to The Gyle before Christmas, meaning it will have covered just about every part of the tram route.

Mandy Haeburn-Little, director of communications and customer services for the tram project, said: "The mock-up has proven to be extremely popular and allows people to get a real idea for how the trams will look and feel.

"We're keen to work with businesses in the West End as we continue our work in this area. As with the other locations, we hope that the mock-up will attract people to this fantastic part of Edinburgh.

"The enthusiasm from those who have visited the mock-up tram vehicle has been extremely positive."

Work is currently underway on the tram depot at Gogar, which will eventually house the real trams once the project is up and running.

However, tram bosses have admitted the depot is nine months behind schedule and are currently in discussions with Transport for London about testing the vehicles on the Croydon tram system.

Traders in Leith have previously criticised the decision to base the model in Princes Street initially, depriving local business of a boost in visitor numbers.

Councillor Gordon Mackenzie, the city's transport leader, said: "The tram mock-up has proved to be a real winner with the people of Edinburgh during its trip around the city, both in terms of the high level of interest generated and the positive feedback received."

Earlier this month the Evening News revealed that the official cost of the tram line had risen to an estimated £524.5 million. The £12m increase will be added to the bill along with whatever TIE has to pay out to the contractors it is currently in dispute with.

The news came after SNP MSP Shirley-Anne Somerville said sources close to the project had told her the final bill could reach £750m.

MORE DELAYS
THE FIRST phase of work on the tram route between Ocean Terminal and Newhaven will not be finished for another six months, despite already being a year late.

Tram firm TIE said utility diversion work would begin at the Forth Ports Estate on 9 November after being awarded to Farrans, a Northern Irish construction firm.

Steven Bell, the tram project director, said: "The Forth Ports work required a number of administrative details to be finalised and will begin on 9 November, running through until the projected end date of April of next year."

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 21 October 2009 2:19 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Edinburgh transport plans
 
1

Amenemhat,

21/10/2009 12:00:31
They are just counting the people walking past shaking their head, 1/3 of Edinburgh has visited it! I think not
2

Incandescent,

21/10/2009 12:01:16
"As with the other locations, we hope that the mock-up will attract people to this fantastic part of Edinburgh."

So, Havers-Spittle is now trying to spin that the mere presence of this mockery actually *attracts* people to its location.

Poppycock!
3

Mallory,

Edinburgh 21/10/2009 12:04:33
People are flocking to see it cos they know it'll be cancelled.
4

digestive biscuits returns,

21/10/2009 12:05:39
It hasn't been visited by 130000 different people; it's been visited by the 24 tram supporters in the city many thousands of times each.
5

eric,

Lothian 21/10/2009 12:07:24
looks like a bus,
6

fresian,

21/10/2009 12:08:28
People are going to Ocen Terminal as normal, not especially to see this piece of cr4p, will Havering spittal please stop trying to push his eco nazi tram propaganda. The people of Edinburgh do not want it, it is no use whatsoever to the majority of residents. Itis a criminal waste of money.
7

Foo,

21/10/2009 12:10:07
Oh dear, I wonder what the People Really Against Trams Squad (PRATS) are going to make of this?

8

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 21/10/2009 12:11:01
sheeeeesh here we go again with the vanity hype and vanity scam! other story saying council tax to rise!!!! you supporters were well warned! who in their right mind wants to go and see a mock up that probably costs thousands.its a carriage with seats and a floor (maybe!)where are the drivers coming from? more foreigners? where are they gonna be trained? or are the council just gonna let someone try and work it out? if they are to be sent elsewhere to be trained will they have to do the same as a bus driver? ie, disclaimer,full medical,test and character check? what a shambles! take the fake and stick it where the sun dont shine!
9

Bring Back Poll Tax,

21/10/2009 12:11:52
#6 - yes it looks like a bus but when you step inside you see that there's an awful lot of standing room but only a few seats.

Did they actually ask any of the visitors "and will you be giving up another form of transport in favour of a 1 in 3 chance to sit on one of these hard seats next to a smelly vagrant?".

No
10

Mrs Alex Pinkfoot,

Embra 21/10/2009 12:12:55
It,s good thing that so maney people have seen it they now have a good idea of what they will be getting for there money.
11

,

21/10/2009 12:14:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

Incandescent,

21/10/2009 12:14:57
#8 Foo

Using this thread so far (up to 10) as a representative sample, we have 9 unique logins against one. (now 10 including me)
13

Skip McClendon,

21/10/2009 12:14:59
Not this load of old tosh again. Mandy is really earning her ridiculously large fee - recycling old bits of PR fluff from 6 months ago that no-one believed the first time round.

A formica tram "attracting" people to venture out to the Gyle....aye, right. No doubt TIE and Mandy will chuck out higher footfall at the Gyle in December as a sign that everyone is flocking to see their toy tram, nothing whatsoever to do with a certain religious festival in late December...
14

barmeyfred,

21/10/2009 12:17:58
how many of these people visiting this mock-up were Edinburgh residents and how many were tourists?
15

Skip McClendon,

21/10/2009 12:19:37
#15

Any how many of them were Foo, Gorgie Tony and Duncan in Edinburgh?
16

Foo,

21/10/2009 12:19:46
#13

This is not a representative sample. This is simply representative of Edinburgh Evening News readers who use the internet.
17

alex patersons English teacher,

21/10/2009 12:21:53
11.
a bad hair day mrs alex?
18

Rugal,

21/10/2009 12:22:25
Can we see the figures or are we just to take TIEs word for it?

MEANWHILE BACK IN THE REAL WORLD OF TIE

MORE DELAYS

THE FIRST phase of work on the tram route between Ocean Terminal and Newhaven will not be finished for another six months, despite already being a year late.

The FIRST phase?? TIE taking you for a ride until the money runs out.


19

Mince Pie Supper,

21/10/2009 12:22:35
Foo is a Tram driver.
20

The Jenny whine Mario n’ Tony net,

21/10/2009 12:25:00
17.
that's less than we might think.
21

Foo,

21/10/2009 12:25:09
#20

Correct.
22

Randy Picket-Fence,

Gorgie 21/10/2009 12:26:31
Have you noticed something about the pro-trammies?

Duncan = gay
scotsol = bicurious
Tony = very gay

Foo, it's not looking good for you, son! Ting Tong!
23

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 21/10/2009 12:27:29
i still cant get over this story! am i dreaming? is this a nightmare? plz tell me it is. a cardboard cut out (called heres one i made earlier) is attracting 130000 people? who are these people?where do they come from? are they aliens? has dawe reproduced lately? its like watching paint drying or watching grass growing. ITS A BUS ON METAL WHEELS THAT CANT TURN UNLESS THE RAILS DICTATE! although the way the work is being done that statement remains to be seen!
24

Incandescent,

21/10/2009 12:28:47
15:1
25

Foo,

21/10/2009 12:29:44
23

Perhaps you could let us all know what it is you are trying to imply? If I was gay, what exactly would the problem be?
26

Mince Pie Supper,

21/10/2009 12:30:33
Thousands visit museums every day.
Doesn't mean they want to use old stuff.
27

Incandescent,

21/10/2009 12:31:29
#26 "were", not "was", unless you're talking about a change of orientation.
28

Mince Pie Supper,

21/10/2009 12:31:52
The Tram Mock-up is nothing more than a Curiosity.
29

Foo,

21/10/2009 12:33:54
28

:)
30

Mince Pie Supper,

21/10/2009 12:34:15
Prats is a village in Andorra, located in the parish of Canillo.
31

Skip McClendon,

21/10/2009 12:34:49
Actually, I'm fairly sure that a similar figure was touted when the toy tram was on Princes Street. Is this supposed to be ANOTHER 130,000 people, or the same 130,000 people? Have the same people visited it in its new location, or has no-one visited it at its new location?

I'm sure we can all trust those funsters at TIE and their paid PR hackette to give us the truth. I'm sure they wouldn't want to mislead us at all. Looking forward to the next release of these ultra-reliable figures, which will probably indicate that every person on earth will have visited the formica tram at least twice by Hogmanay.
32

Foo,

21/10/2009 12:35:07
I think it makes a big statement when 29% of an entire city population takes the time to visit.
33

Incandescent,

21/10/2009 12:35:41
The Caledonian Hotel, eh? Odds-on that Duncan was there just the other day.
34

Mrs Alex Pinkfoot,

21/10/2009 12:36:04
#18.
No, Alfonsa Pedrosa got banned fir saying nasty thing. about some chineeese people yesterday
35

Mince Pie Supper,

21/10/2009 12:36:04
33

They were probably just weegies on a bus tour from mankyland.
36

Jaco Pastorius,

21/10/2009 12:37:20
May we see a photograph of Mandy Haeburn-Little? I'm so lonely.
37

Incandescent,

21/10/2009 12:37:30
#33 Lol!
38

Alba-Hibs,

21/10/2009 12:38:01
130,000 visits since February

lets see...

that equates to 39 weeks
which equates to 273 days
(assuming its open 7 days a week)
which equates to 6552 hours
(assuming its open 24 hours a day)
which equates to 393,120 minutes

which means someone has visited it every 3 mins 24/7

I don't think so !!!!

39

Mince Pie Supper,

21/10/2009 12:39:33
I've visited things before.

Doesn't mean I:

a) wanted to.
b) enjoyed it.
c) don't feel dirty.
40

Incandescent,

21/10/2009 12:39:48
#37

here you go

http://tinyurl.com/yjlkw6l
41

Unimpressed one,

21/10/2009 12:42:00
Wonder how long the plush leather upholstery will last with bored schemies getting on at Leith?
42

,

21/10/2009 12:42:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
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43

Foo,

21/10/2009 12:45:09
#39

I think you might find its:

that equates to 39 weeks
which equates to 273 days (assuming its open 7 days a week)
which equates to 2184 hours (assuming its open 8 hours a day)
which equates to 131,040 minutes

Which means someone has visited it every minute.

But life doesn't work like that. More likely, groups of twenty odd walked through at a time in busy periods, and there were quiet periods too.
44

Heedbanger,

21/10/2009 12:45:54
#43. Back to sleep. The only rap your good for is the rap over your mouth to stop you spouting such nonsense.

The trams are good for Edinburgh and the visitor numbers show this.
45

alex patersons English teacher,

21/10/2009 12:46:55
42.
i'm all a bored the trams.
46

Alba-Hibs,

21/10/2009 12:47:36
#44 foo

Have you actually seen anyone in it..assuming apart from yourself
47

Incandescent,

21/10/2009 12:48:34
#45 Ssssh!
48

Incandescent,

21/10/2009 12:50:48
#47 Here's a clue - senior gentlemen wearing baseball caps and tartan trousers are highly unlikely to be Edinburgh residents.
49

Foo,

21/10/2009 12:51:53
#47

I went through it once, when we were on Princes street. I wasn't that impressed, it's just a mock tram after all. But I did have to wait in line and there were quite a few people behind me too.
50

Skip McClendon,

21/10/2009 12:51:59
#49

No. Probably from East Lothian.
51

Foo,

21/10/2009 12:53:47
East Lothian-shire USA
52

alex patersons English teacher,

21/10/2009 12:55:19
45
is that rap with a silent w.

anchors away.
53

Reggie Lebowski,

21/10/2009 12:56:28
#45 Heedbanger

How is one tram line going to be good for Edinburgh?
54

Old Cartha Boy,

21/10/2009 13:00:06
Bandy Havering - Spittle, director of communications and customer services for the tram project, said: "The mock-up has proven to be extremely popular and allows people to get a real idea for how the trams will look and feel.

So... has ther been an occassion down at OT when 270 passengers, 180 standing, with their luggage, have been on the mock-up of a tram...that is how tram will look and feel ...but then we know it will never happen so why should we get uptight!
55

JT,

21/10/2009 13:00:43
I bet the management of the Caley is pleased that the tram is outside the hotel. Just what the style it wants to promote not!
56

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 21/10/2009 13:01:55
Interesting that the EEN is still spouting the garbage about Gogar being only 9 months late, yet when compared to TIEs own business plan it is at least 14 months behind.

Also, I heard today that despite spending god knows how much money and six years planning that TIE still does not know where the stop will be at the airport!
57

JulesF,

Kirkliston 21/10/2009 13:02:06
#54

Easy, one line is better because it costs less than lots of them !
58

JulesF,

Kirkliston 21/10/2009 13:04:01
#57 Because they've run out of money, there will not be a proper stop at the airport, as the tram gets near, the driver will take a show of hands from the passengers and stop there :)
59

Ecto,

21/10/2009 13:04:30
Why does a construction project need a Director of Communications and how much is she costing????
60

JulesF,

Kirkliston 21/10/2009 13:05:31
It's Director of Miss-communications and how much have you got left in the budget ?
61

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

21/10/2009 13:06:02
I'm thinking of mocking-up some Council Tax to pay for it.
62

Heedbanger,

21/10/2009 13:07:16
#54 Big Reggie Labowski. Back to sleep.

One line is better than no line. Shimples!!

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
63

JulesF,

Kirkliston 21/10/2009 13:10:20
Breaking news :

TIE have come up with a plan to get the Tram back on time and budget.

When Edinburgh turns the clocks back next week, instead of an hour they will wind back the year.

This is henceforth to be called Tie Inspired Time, and will replace the abbreviated GMT !
64

,

21/10/2009 13:10:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
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65

scotsol,

Edinburgh 21/10/2009 13:11:55
#23 - Heavens, am I "bicurious" now? Up until today the normal PRAT (thanks Foo) line has been that I'm "clearly" an employee of TIE, though occasionally I'm "clearly" a councillor. My, what a lot I'm learning about myself.
66

Reggie Lebowski,

21/10/2009 13:12:16
#63 Your shimples.

One line that will provide a service to about 6% of people living in Edinburgh. This will be great for Edinburgh.
67

Reggie Lebowski,

21/10/2009 13:13:59
#58 It's unfortunate I have to waste my time responding to someone who is backward.
68

,

21/10/2009 13:15:00
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69

NorT,

Edinburgh 21/10/2009 13:19:14
I would like to now how they are counting the people. The people on a bus driving past?
70

Randy Picket-Fence,

Gorgie 21/10/2009 13:20:20
69
James(1) has sworn me to secrecy.
71

Reggie Lebowski,

21/10/2009 13:21:46
#69 Foo
72

Foo,

21/10/2009 13:22:24
Scotsol, that's nothing. I work for tie, the council am an 16 & 18 yr old student, unemployed and an OAP. I am gay, have married a thai ladyboy, a mail order thai girl AND a blowup doll. I fancy Duncan, you, GT, Mario and Jaco, have had numerous breakdowns, have no friends, family or life. I live in Pilton, Muirhouse and Wester Hailes.

No mystery mario, james has been saying for some time now my wife is either a blow up doll or a thai ladyboy he can't make up his mind which one it is though.

73

fresian,

21/10/2009 13:22:47
I walked through it on Princes Street once, but only to avoid being stopped by the market researchers on the pavement.
74

Foo,

21/10/2009 13:23:29
Oh, and I'm Bi-polar.
75

Peedie Paws,

21/10/2009 13:24:42
Um, since they put the model tram by the hotel, can anyone tell me where that lovely wee snack van went to?

The snack van could sell rotten fruit and veg so you can throw it at the model tram.
76

Reggie Lebowski,

21/10/2009 13:25:29
#73, #75

ROFL
77

,

21/10/2009 13:25:39
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78

Reggie Lebowski,

21/10/2009 13:25:52
#75 At least your honest.
79

Randy Picket-Fence,

Gorgie 21/10/2009 13:26:43
73
Confused, aren't you?
80

Mrs Alex Pinkfoot,

21/10/2009 13:28:15
#69.

Will they be using blow up wifes in Gracemount on sunday?
81

digestive biscuits returns,

21/10/2009 13:28:44
#75

You'll be upset with Mercedes going up north then.

82

Sparts,

21/10/2009 13:30:10
It's a tram, is there really any need to "go and visit it"? Utter nonsense.
83

,

21/10/2009 13:32:36
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84

Norman Tebbit,

21/10/2009 13:35:52
My friend Tony will be calling on you with his war pistol.
85

,

21/10/2009 13:37:12
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86

,

21/10/2009 13:39:44
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87

,

21/10/2009 13:40:52
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88

,

21/10/2009 13:44:16
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89

Mrs Alex Pinkfoot,

21/10/2009 13:48:45
Two cannibals went into a chip shop and asked for battered wives.
90

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 21/10/2009 13:59:01
#69 mario
i had a blow up wifey but sadly i gave her a love bite 1st time and she went down on me.:-p
91

Glenda,

blah 21/10/2009 14:02:41
Visitors flock to see Auschwitz concentration camp. That doesn't mean they want to build one in the centre of the town they live in.......
92

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edunburgh 21/10/2009 14:02:49
btw has tony got a blow up boy?
93

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 21/10/2009 14:03:32
cant remember the spelling of the wee rubber thing that you throw in the water (boy!)
94

Mrs Alex Pinkfoot,

21/10/2009 14:11:00
That thing is no mock up,it is a sample of the real thing.
The final payment cheque will be cashed and the contactors will be sunning themselves on tne beach in Rio De Janeiro before our dopey council cheifs realise that they have been conned.
95

,

21/10/2009 14:15:04
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96

fresian,

21/10/2009 14:20:11
92 Glenda, I would like to build one then fill it with neds and eco nazi scum.
97

scotsol,

Edinburgh 21/10/2009 14:21:34
Foo, I sympathise with you, though the PRATs are more in need of it. Well, I'm going out to hug the tram. I expect that makes me an electrosexual.
98

Foo,

21/10/2009 14:24:17
Think the admin just nuked mario
99

Jaco Pastorius,

21/10/2009 14:28:29
Nope. None of you have made me laugh. Please try harder, ya big Jessies.
100

Incandescent,

21/10/2009 14:42:49
Scotsol is in fact Mandy Havers-Spittle. Clearly.
101

totally indecent,

21/10/2009 14:47:34
Ach - why don't they nuke the idiots like Reggie and James(1)
102

pongo2009,

21/10/2009 14:53:07
I visited the mock-up when it was outside Jenners. I noticed the tram wouldn't have very many seats and what seats it had were very narrow.

I would have pointed that out but there were no feedback forms out and the clipboarders were just talking among themselves.
103

Old Cartha Boy,

21/10/2009 14:57:47
I visited the tram at OT today and saw 6 Japanese OAPs get on the "tram" and ask for "thix thickets to Haymachar" - make that 130,006 who enjoyed the tram experience.
104

Foo,

21/10/2009 15:06:53
#104

I saw an old man, red faced and stinking of booze wet himself outside the tram.

Make that 130,007 who enjoyed the tram experience.
105

Reggie Lebowski,

21/10/2009 15:21:12
#102 and yourself for boring everyone except Foo.
106

Old Cartha Boy,

21/10/2009 15:23:51
http://living.scotsman.com/features/How-to-impress-yourself.2563741.jp

A past piece on Mandy - it explains it all! I'm guessing Mad Cow Disease was sweeping the country at the time her picture was taken? She's scary!
107

Mince Pie Supper,

21/10/2009 15:44:12
On time.
On budget.

On bricks.
108

Douglas,

Bathgate 21/10/2009 16:45:54
#94 gordon aka smoker and proud: A johnny?
109

Bob1,

21/10/2009 16:53:02
It's Scottish government money not council money that's gone into this project. A common mistake most evening news readers make. These trams will be a godsend for the city.
110

Euan,

Edinburgh 21/10/2009 17:50:18
It still isn't too late to cut our losses on this insane project.

No amount of propaganda like the type above which Mandy Haeburn-Little is paid to come up with will ever hoodwink the people of this city into thinking the trams are worth the money being spent on them.

I say cancel the entire project now, pay off the contractors and get Edinburgh back to normal.

if this doesn't happen, the consequences for Lothian buses and for The City of Edinburgh as a whole will be nothing short of disastrous.

111

reincarnated,

Edinburgh 21/10/2009 20:15:10
Another attempted con? Its not going to the Gyle.

It goes past Broomhoose !
112

Doctor Twitch,

Carstairs 21/10/2009 21:14:09
One of the most surprising features of the human mind is its infinite capacity for self delusion: "trams will be good for Edinburgh" and "I am witty and lovable not a frightened paranoiac who cannot engage in social banter without lashing out at everyone" are two such examples.
113

Ian down under,

Musselburgh 21/10/2009 22:00:15
Stop Press News.

The worst performing tramway in the UK is Sheffield Supertram. However things are changing and now they are ordering new vehicles to cope with additional demand and are looking at new routes to serve.
Dublin apparently had lots of 'opposers' to their Luas tramway but now it is open it is popular and well used. Other areas are wanting extensions to their part of the city and now they are adding to it with an underground city centre railway.
As for the rest of the world well they kept their original routes, modernised them or built new ones without causing mas hysteria among rail phobics.
even 750 million is cheap[if it was true] for brand new underground services, a 12 mile line, stations, trams and depots. How much would a motorway of the same length plus car parks be?
114

Julian.,

edinburgh 21/10/2009 23:34:10
Reincarnated,

Tut tut. Haven't we had enough misinformation on this. Trams will stop at the Gyle shopping centre.

On the subject of Broomhouse, when's the mock up going to stop there?
115

Julian.,

edinburgh 21/10/2009 23:40:46
Ian,

You forgot to mention Nottingham. They had to order more trams to cope with the demand on the first line and are now starting to build 2 more....in a city of 240,000 people.

And the cost of a day ticket is £2.70...conisderably less than Euan predicts it will cost to go up Leith Walk.
116

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 21/10/2009 23:55:41
#115 - Only someone with no concept of value for money could think this single line for £750m and which replaces 1 profitable bus service with something which will require permanent operating subsidy could be value for money.

Dublin trams are widely seen as a waste of money by the people not on the route given they have done nothing for congestion - actually increasing it in some areas as traffic was squeezed out. Patronage is falling and the most recent extensions to failed docklands developments (sound familiar) have attracted widespread criticism. Because the benefits have been so modest, Dublin is now looking at underground lines - although given the Irish economy nothing much is going to happen for a long time.

#116 Julian - the vanity tram, if completed, will stop near the Gyle shopping centre (planned at the edge of the car park), as opposed to the bus which drops people at the front door. I suppose it may be just on land owned by the shopping centre, but it does not stop at the centre itself in the way the bus does.

The route alignment is so bad that the modest journey time improvement will, for the huge majority of users, be more than offset by the extra distance to / from the stops.
117

Julian.,

edinburgh 22/10/2009 05:25:55
Graemeh,

In reference to Dublin it's easy to come on here saying Dublin trams are unpopular and thought of as a waste of money. But where's the hard evidence?

I'll give you hard evidence: 3 further lines under construction and 4 more about to start construction.

Politicians can get away with so much but they certainly couldn't get away with building 7 further tram lines if the first 2 were massively unpopular. If they could do that then line 3 in Edinburgh would be just around the corner whether line 1 is popular or not.

The point I was making about The Gyle was in response to a previous comment that trams wouldn't go there.

Glad to see the anti-tram predictions for the cost of line 1a being downgraded from £1bn to £750m;-)
118

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 22/10/2009 08:17:12
Julian - my evidence is from spending two months working in Dublin this year and speaking to many people there - generally ones on the tram line liked it, ones not on it thought it a waste. Edinburgh will be, similar in that generally people on the route are likely to like it with just about everyone else seeing it as a huge waste of money. But even many of those on the route are likely to be disappointed given the appalling route alignment which means their total journey time and experience is made worse.

IN Dublin there was criticism by residents, on the radio and in the Irish press about the new lines serving failed developments. The Irish Govt was basically in the pockets of developers who saw the Govt providing free tram lines as a great selling point. Now the planned developments have failed, the recent extensions under trial are under pressure, patronage on existing lines has fallen by c.10% and the need for new ones, never mind the fact that funding ain't there as the Irish economy is bust, becomes far less clear. Officially the Govt is committed, unofficially they wont happen.

Still, at least the Irish got the EU (including us British taxpayers paying a significant sum) to pay for their initial lines rather than having to fund them themselves.

New build light rail or trams always seems like a great idea, but it is like heating your house by burning five pound notes. You may get a result, but it is a really expensive way to achieve it.
119

Mallory,

Edinburgh 22/10/2009 10:15:10
Havering spittal is a woman #7

 

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