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Wednesday, 9th December 2009

Power cut to shops as exposed cable at tram works explodes

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Published Date: 28 October 2009
MORE than 100 properties in and around Princes Street were left without power after an explosion in an electricity cable left exposed by tram works.
Businesses missed out on lunchtime trade after the explosion, close to the corner of Princes Street and Castle Street, knocked out the power to about 130 commercial and residential properties as far away as Rose Street.

Director of Juice Almighty
in Castle Street, Derek Webster, said he had heard a bang from the street at about noon: "We're going to miss the entire lunch trade, we're turning customers away. At lunchtimes I'd take £200-£400 – fortunately I've just been told I can claim it on my insurance.

"Me and my staff heard an explosion – it sounded like it came from the corner of Castle Street and Princes Street. It wasn't quite the One o'Clock Gun, but it was big enough."

Many businesses were without power for two hours, including the Build-a-Bear Workshop, which was forced to close its doors on young customers. Associate workshop manager Jenny Thomasi said: "We had about 30 kids at the door crying, because we just had to close the doors for two hours. Head office have said they don't think they would get any compensation unless we were closed for five hours."

It is thought that the cable may have been corroded and the explosion was caused by heavy rain.

A spokesman for TIE said: "I can confirm that a power cable was routinely exposed during the course of normal works. No-one was working near to the cable at the time of the power stoppage."

Charity fundraiser Anna Wemyss, 22, who was working on Princes Street at the time, said: "There was a big kind of explosion and some sparks and a lot of orange smoke. It was pretty loud, and the electricity went off. There were a lot of people working round the area but no-one was obviously down where the explosion happened, thank God. They all went running over."

It is the second power cut to hit businesses in Princes Street in recent months as a result of tram works. Three weeks ago traffic lights at the West End also failed after tram workers crushed cabling, and in March, 2,000 homes and businesses were left without power in Leith after tram workers cut power cables.

A ScottishPower spokeswoman said power was restored by 2pm.





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 28 October 2009 10:37 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Edinburgh transport plans
 
1

JulesF,

Kirkliston 28/10/2009 11:09:58
Why should businesses have to 'claim on their insurance' for disruption caused by Tram works ?

This in turn puts premiums up for future insurance.

The money for compensation should come directly from TIE and or the contractor responsible's profits !
2

Skip McClendon,

28/10/2009 11:12:10
Hardly surprising that the cable was exposed to heavy rain, considering the length of time the masssive great holes in the road have been sitting open...

Loss of power during the busiest period of the day - just another "added benefit" of the White Elephant tram works for Edinburgh city centre businesses!

But thank goodness no-one was hurt - more by luck than by good judgement by TIE and their contractors, though.
3

Old Cartha Boy,

28/10/2009 12:01:00
TIE are hardly an apologetic bunch! Mandy must be on holiday or we'd have had "This interest in the exposed cable shows how eagerly people of Edinburgh are waiting for the trams to run".
4

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 12:03:28
If they'd consigned the idea of trams to the rubbish bin a few years ago---as they should have done---then this might never have happened.
5

alfonsa pedrosa,

embra 28/10/2009 12:11:37
Get used to these problems there are many more to come.
6

Incandescent,

28/10/2009 12:12:09
#3 Old Cartha

That's uncanny - have you completed one of Mandy Havers-Spittle's "Popeye" workshops?
7

Incandescent,

28/10/2009 12:12:47
#5 Some sparkling insight there, alfonsa/Alex
8

Mrs Alex Pinkfoot,

28/10/2009 12:12:56
#4.

Man you are brilliant!,such powers of deduction.

You worked out that if the hole had not been dug,the cable would not have been exposed.

Richard Dawkins had better watch out.

9

g1101,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 12:14:45
It seems that this unwanted, not needed, waste of money is not content with bankrupting the citizens of Edinburgh but also the businesses which support it. Pull the plug on it now and use the remaining cash to fix the roads.
10

Hmm?,

28/10/2009 12:23:34
Did someone mention trams................

Cue numerous inflated compo/insurance claims!
11

totally indecent,

28/10/2009 12:34:41
30 kids at the door crying????
12

Pond Hall,

28/10/2009 12:35:33
good point No1

should be like 2 cars having a bump, exchange insurance details, and your insurance company would claim of the offenders insurance.
13

Mince Pie Supper,

28/10/2009 12:35:44
A crisps lunch then?
14

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 28/10/2009 12:38:23
hmmmmmm just as i suspected, people are now on a short fuse,the current works are on a short circuit to say the least and sparks are flying again!the power of tie and council are draining the surge of supporters who were electrified at the outset of the mis-adventure.maybe they will meter the ongoing shambles and refuse to pay by d/d or by payg.this project should be cut off and the live wires that started it should be plugged and gagged.
sheeeesh i need to have a drink now!!!! :-)
15

JulesF,

Kirkliston 28/10/2009 12:39:13
#12 Can we trust TIE to actually have remembered to buy insurance ?

Maybe to save us money they have decided not to ?

Come to think of it, it would be interesting to know how much of the budget is allocated for insurance and how much has been paid out as compensation for previous mistakes.

Do TIE have to respond to Freedom of Information requests or are they not a public body ?
16

Foo,

28/10/2009 12:41:12
The fact is, there are some who are against the trams, and there are some in favour of the trams and there are some neither here nor there (the under 16 years olds for example).
17

Zaphod Burblebollox,

28/10/2009 12:41:52
This place is like sleepsville, man. It needs sparks and bangs to wake it up. The trams will be really cool. I saw the launch rails while sitting in my stretch on the way into town yesterday.
18

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 12:43:19
#15 - TIE do have to respond to such requests, unfortunately if you ask anything too revealing, they generally cite "commercial confidentiality" as a reason for not responding.
19

Concerned of Leith,

28/10/2009 12:47:38
#15 Expect tie to deny all responsibility and EXPECT businesses to claim against their insurance - they have certainly never paid any compensation claims for loss of business on any previous ocassion when they have forced businesses to close.

tie is an arms-length company wholly owned by the city of Edinburgh Council and is required to provide information under the Freedom of Information Act. Why not make your application, then let us all know the outcome!
20

AndyJambo,

28/10/2009 12:50:16
"No-one was working near to the cable at the time"

Shock of shocks.
21

Jaco Pastorius,

28/10/2009 12:54:32
Sarah B
Sarah B
Where's your electricity?
22

JulesF,

Kirkliston 28/10/2009 12:59:10
Princes street is melting in the dark
all the sweet orange sparkles floating down,
Someone left the cable out in the rain
I don't think that they'll admit it
'cause it took so long to lift it
and they'll never have the street put right again
Oh, nooo!
23

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 13:22:26
#22 - Princes Street certainly wasn't 'melting in the dark' at 11pm last night - there was much frantic activity (well, ok, a couple of workies scrabbling about down a couple of deep, unsupported trenches)(have HSE been warned to back-off as well??) - but their performance was being illuminated by banks of floodlights that would have done Murrayfield proud. And the very next day, by sheer coincidence, we have a power cable exploding because it's been left in a dangerous condition. Well, there you go.
24

Unimpressed one,

28/10/2009 13:26:59
#17, Launch rails? Are you thinking about Fireball XL5 instead if trams? ;D
25

Bring Back Poll Tax,

28/10/2009 13:27:53
#12 "Do TIE have to respond to Freedom of Information requests or are they not a public body ?"

Yes they do - I asked them whether or not they had carried out an impact assessment to work out how much additional "greenhouse gas" building the toy train set would generate (e.g. production of thousands of tons of steel/concrete; traffic stuck in jams/driving extra mileages to avoid tram works; contractors generators/compresssors churning away) and therefore how many years/decades would it take for carbon savings to counter the initial huge carbon deficit.

They said that nobody thought that such a study was necessary so they hadn't bothered............
26

Unimpressed one,

28/10/2009 13:28:14
#4, If they'd stuck to gas lighting for Princes Street this would never have happened either.
27

Zaphod Burblebollox,

28/10/2009 13:33:57
Unimpressed, yeah launch rails, man. How else will they get those mothers airborne from like the horizontal?
28

regentlad,

Lothian 28/10/2009 13:40:55
4: Agreed. The traders could always complain to the chamber of commerce or to their Labour MSP Sarah Boyack who has backed the daft tram project.

What TiE forget is one of the reasons why the council in 1956 scrapped trams - power failures. In 1953 a failure in Princes Street left 28 trams stranded on the street. That's more than the total TiE fleet will be. Passengers got off and got the bus, taxi or walked, as the power remained off for the rest of day.
Also forgotten by the Council is that trams need electricity to run on, unless Dawes, McLaren,Burns and co. thinks we're going to push them along! (Mind you that would give tram project Councillors something to do) Power lines can go down, or even if the Bills aren't paid on time the power company will shut them off. Imagine travellers heading to Airport for flights and the power going down. Who's going to compensate. Insurance companies will soon draw the line on that or up the premiums.
29

JulesF,

Kirkliston 28/10/2009 13:57:30
Wheres the TIE troll today, 'Tramsarefab' ?
30

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 14:07:08
Jules (29) - Oh, please - mercy!
31

Jaco Pastorius,

28/10/2009 14:34:08
Hi Sarah B.
32

Old Cartha Boy,

28/10/2009 14:38:14
Re TramsAreFab - one can only hope he has self-imploded on his own bile! Strange how he started so self-righteous and "I only deal with facts - where are yours!" and went downhill into a gibbering idiot. I can only guess this is one of his "non working days at TIE" which is why sense returns to the trams thread.

33

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 14:42:08
Hello, Jaco. How are tricks?
34

GJS,

Leeds 28/10/2009 14:50:22
#4 Sorry but I'm Scottish. What is this concept of a "rubbish bin" of which you speak?
35

Jaco Pastorius,

28/10/2009 14:57:04
I'm fine, Sarah B, apart from this enormous boil. Thanks for stopping by.
36

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 14:59:53
Jaco, dare I ask where it is? I am sure we have discussed previously the beneficial effects of a nice poultice.
37

Foo,

28/10/2009 15:08:51
33

He was doing quite well, but as usual, anyone voicing any support of the trams gets shouted down by insults.

Given that:
• Edinburgh voted for the trams
• All the polls show overwhelming support for the trams
• The huge success of the mock tram
• The trams continuing to be built despite your contradictions
• The complete lack of any credible opposition to the trams
• There has been precisely zero protests against the trams
• The only place in Edinburgh where you can see any opposition to the trams is this virtual notice board where anonymous posters, most of whom are in reality the Leith traders assoc. who blame the trams for the fact that their terrible shops are going down the toilet because of a recession/their refusal to stock goods which people want to actually buy;

I'd say it's you and the twenty or so other anti-trammies that post here who are the trolls, filled with, how do you put it? That's right bile and self-righteousness against the majority who are glad to see the project come to fruition.

You may now post 200/300 posts slagging me off and attempting to disprove reality.
38

Jaco Pastorius,

28/10/2009 15:20:12
With respect, Sarah B, my boil is in a delicate place. But my GP does a nice line in unguents.
39

Zaphod Burblebollox,

28/10/2009 15:21:24
Foo, yeah you tell 'em, man! You must be one of the pilots. Tell me, will there be an observation car with a dome on top where first class passengers can sip cocktails while viewing the city?
40

JulesF,

Kirkliston 28/10/2009 15:25:57
Fabulous news, I've just discovered Edinburgh-Trams have an official Facebook site :)

It has a whole 390 subscribers !!



41

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 15:28:59
Jaco (40) - How inconvenient. I would have suggested lancing or a nice onion or mustard poultice, but, in the circumstances perhaps not. Even the recommended paste of smashed potatoes, bread soaked in milk and such might be hard to explain if your doorbell rang at the wrong moment.
42

Jaco Pastorius,

28/10/2009 15:30:52
Ooh you're just dead clever, Sarah B. And your concern is touching. But I must lie down now.
43

Helmut von Knobrott,

28/10/2009 15:33:01
#40
Then be careful how you sit down or you'll need one of those rubber-covered bars to bite on. Gorgie Tony had to have one fitted in his loo to stop the neighbours complaining about the hours of screaming and whimpering echoing round the stair every time he had a bad attack of the strains.
44

Old Cartha Boy,

28/10/2009 15:38:18
Foo at #39 - please show me where Edinburgh voted for the trams? But not the flawed "referendum" on road charging where the trams were presenetd as part of a package of measures to be funded by road usage. No road charging = no trams in my book!

The whole of Scotland will be paying for this folly for many years to come, whether it is built or not. I just feel that a few posters here are genuinely concerned about the trams and the long-term damage it is doing to this city, which is why we express our concerns, usually clearly and based on evidence.

I will take no pleasure if the tram project falls, simply because of the financial penalties which the people of Scotland will face in having to make good the financial black hole that trams will have created.



45

Old Cartha Boy,

28/10/2009 15:39:42
Re #45 - should the last word of your neat post not have read "trams"?

46

regentlad,

Lothian 28/10/2009 15:45:33
39: Foo, very few people are against trams. You need to understand that over 300 trams ran in this city on 28 routes. So no-one was ever too far away from a tram. They were used and loved. The Council in their 'wisdom' (in particular the Tory party), decided they should be no longer, they caused traffic jams, they were unreliable, noisy, they weren't flexible to serve new housing areas, the overhead lines were ugly, or so they said. They even contocted figures to have us believe they made a loss! Imagine the Council doing that. But despite protests from the common man and woman, (thats us poor tax payers) they still scrapped them and sent millions of pounds of civic assets to the scrapheap.

Who you mis-call 'anti-trammies' are actually level headed sensible citizens who are against spending an unknown huge quantity of money (that we don't have)
on a tram line that we don't need. The number 22 bus serves us well, so no need for daft expensive projects that will only succeed in closing many of our schools and bankrupting the city. Thanks all the same, now back in that tram, whoops, pram! as sleepy times await ...sweet tram project dreams Foo ££££££££. !
47

Foo,

28/10/2009 15:46:40
#46

It's nice to hear that you seem to genuinely only want the past for your city, but Edinburgh must progress as a city. I feel we're getting left behind, both as a nation and as a city.
48

Foo,

28/10/2009 15:52:20
#48

You were doing so well, until the end, Mr ...regentlad.

You say 300 trams ran in this city on 28 routes. Correct, but the network wasn't built all at once. And this system will be a modern, efficient alternative to buses which are outdated, dirty and lacking in space. They also occupy valuable road space with their 'green lanes' and tend to travel in packs when you need them. I'd also say, bus timetables are the greatest work of fiction since the book about the bearded fella that walks on water.

Anyway, I happen to know you have an interest in being against the trams, but I'll keep it to myself, don't worry!
49

reincarnated,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 16:09:00
Dont try and reason with Foo regentlad, he has the intellect of a Lidl cockroach.

Trams.

Boo.
50

Foo,

28/10/2009 16:13:56
51

As usual, nothing to say other than insults. Begone you racist.

51

Old Cartha Boy,

28/10/2009 16:17:05
I'd hoped for better from Foo at #49 - why do we waste our time on him? When you put a stick into a bucket of jobby and give it a stir, it's still a bucket of jobby!

52

reincarnated,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 16:19:52
Racist ! - the retort of the retarded.
53

Jaco Pastorius,

28/10/2009 16:22:50
Why would anyone "put a stick into a bucket of jobby and give it a stir"?
54

Unruly pupil,

28/10/2009 16:29:16
shìt stirrer?
55

reincarnated,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 16:32:18
If I ever come across a bucket of jobby I will find a stick and try this out of curiousity.

It cannot be less pointless than listening to Foo.

56

Austin Bowels,

International Man of Dysentery 28/10/2009 16:35:44
55

In a regular pan, when you finally manage to crimp off a particularly lengthy one, the flush sometimes needs a little physical assistance. Then a stick could come in handy.

If you've just shat in a bucket though, I don't see the point. Maybe Tony would know. He has some odd little post-evacuation rituals.
57

Incandescent,

28/10/2009 16:42:20
#39 Foo

Oh dear, still touting the mock tram as some kind of spectacular success, Foo? Rather naive to say the least.
58

Zaphod Burblebollox,

28/10/2009 16:51:09
Foo, are you a Vogon, man? You're like really bad-tempered with these guys who don't like trams. Chill out dude and write some poetry! It's their loss if they can't see what a great thing the trams will be. I'm going to order my own personal tramcar for visits to Edinburgh.
59

Foo,

28/10/2009 16:53:35
#59

And the other points? I can point to actual numbers. Where's your evidence that 'jist ivrywin hates thim'?

#57
reincarnated

The BNP called, your subscription is up for renewal.

60

Foo,

28/10/2009 16:57:03
#60

Really? I wouldn't say that? I've put some points across, and in return had responses ranging from the sane (Incandescent), to the bad tempered huffy insult (Old Cartha Boy) to the downright racist (reincarnated).

You point to where I insulted anyone, and I'll apologise for it.
61

ikonoclast,

28/10/2009 16:58:38

Prostetnic Vogon Foo!

It figures...
62

Foo,

28/10/2009 16:59:51
#63

Try and just once put an argument across without an insult. Come on. I don't think you're capable.
63

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 17:02:37
Foo:

"Correct, but the network wasn't built all at once. And this system will be a modern, efficient alternative to buses which are outdated, dirty and lacking in space."

And how much do you reckon THAT's gonna cost us? So far the track record includes budgeting for three phases of the "network" and blowing more than that on LESS than the first stage. Doesn't sound promising to me... Probably near a billion quid for a replacement for the No22 bus. Yeah, right. How many bus routes do we have in Edinburgh? How many billions is that going to be? In anyone's language it simply isn't worth it. In any case, the last bus I went on wasn't "dirty and out of date". It was a modern vehicle in good condition.

"They also occupy valuable road space with their 'green lanes'"

I agree. Scrap the bus lanes! Traffic would move along far better. And while you're at it, re-instate all the urban dual carriageways, return the speed limits to what they used to be, unblock all the roads and get rid of the oversized kerbs. All we need is to do that, and build a few decent underground car-parks and Edinburgh's transport problems would be solved.
64

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 17:06:27
(cont)

And how much road space do you reckon this railway line will occupy eh?

Hint: See the roadworks now, well that's a pretty accurate reflection of what roads are going to be accessable to normal traffic once this insanity is completed---if it is ever completed.

The trams are the biggest anti-car measure ever taken in the western world.
65

Foo,

28/10/2009 17:09:35
#66

I dunno. One tram does the work of three buses. and does not enter onto road space for cars, as buses do. It certainly works better in every other city I've been to with trams.
66

ikonoclast,

28/10/2009 17:10:52
"You point to where I insulted anyone, and I'll apologise for it."

OK, Foo. How about this effort of yours:

26 Foo,16/10/2009 13:45:47
"Hi, I'm ikonoclast. This is a photo of my best friend Zothecula and I. We are going to live forever because we are both vampires. http://a5.vox.com/6a00e398acff80000300f48cefa0250003-500pi
We met on an internet chat site for gothics called www.hatingfooandbatsandbeingmisunderstood.com last year and now we regularly catch the bus to the mall to stand in the middle and talk about bats and being misunderstood. I met my internet girlfriend Nightblade on the same site and we had planned to get married in a graveyard at midnight but she turned out to be an old guy living in a caravan so that didn't work out."

I suppose you'll say that when we make fun of you we're being insulting, but when you do it to us, it's just you being humourous.
67

Foo,

28/10/2009 17:15:27
#68

lol, OK, you got me. I apologise.
68

Foo,

28/10/2009 17:16:45
#68

But in the interests of debate, can we, to use management speak, 'going forward' try to avoid the insults? Yeah?
69

Incandescent,

28/10/2009 17:16:51
#61 Foo

"I can point to actual numbers..." which, unfortunately, are little more than fabricated and utterl fanciful poppycock.

There. I've said it.
70

Sally Kent,

28/10/2009 17:35:16
"Me and my staff heard an explosion"

It certainly wasn't a grammar explosion.
71

ikonoclast,

28/10/2009 17:39:21
Apology accepted, Foo. Let peace and goodwill reign.

However, will you also promise everyone here that when:
a) the trams are cancelled
b) the trams are finished, but run at a loss, or
c) the trams are still not finished by 2013, or
d) the whole thing costs >£750M

that you will publicly eat a very large slice of humble pie and admit this instance of a tram system was poorly conceived and executed from the start?
72

regentlad,

Lothian 28/10/2009 18:10:07
50: Cooo-ee Fooo-ee, I've no interest in being anti-tram. But nice to know you keep secrets. Now you've missed yer afternoon nap so get back under the rug. Do us all a favour and stay in slumber till the trams start running. When?

Councillor Rev Aitken assures us trams in corporation colours will be running through the streets in 2010 - just a couple a months away. Who's to doubt a Labour councillor and man of the cloth ? Amazing man as not even Mystic Meg could forecast that. Me ? I'll stick with Zager and Evans !
73

gus1940,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 18:29:36
'As far away as Rose St.'
Rose St must be at most about 75 yards from Princes St.
74

Austin Bowels,

International Man of Dysentery 28/10/2009 18:31:02
'I was on Princes Street when this happened. I can assure you, I was in no way inconvenienced.'

Aye right, Tony! You shat yourself the same as I did. You only wanted that toy bear to wipe the seat of your mobility scooter.
75

ikonoclast,

28/10/2009 18:34:55
Did anyone else see this spoof of Killer Queen a couple of weeks ago? I wonder who it could be about...


He keeps catfood and laxatives in his bedside cabinet
"Top deck is best" he says, every time he's on the net
The EN's remedy for manners and sanity
At anytime a conversation you would decline
"Idiots and parasites", his favourite epithets
Extraordinarily snide

He's a Nutter Queen
War pistol, tram fiend
Pensioner in neoprene
Guaranteed to spànk your bum - anytime
Argumentative all the time, a disagreeable hypocrite
Works for TIE?

To avoid lawyers invoices, he never kept the same address
In SM dungeons says "just call me Baroness"
Met a man from China, who gave him a big shiner
For accidentally on purpose touching his behind
Catfood came cut price from Lidl, naturally
For girls he couldn't care less, ridiculous and a fraud

He's a Nutter Queen
War pistol, tram fiend
Pensioner in neoprene
Guaranteed to spànk your bum - anytime

Drop of your breeks he's as willing as, playful in his gimpy suit
Always looking for some action, temperamentally dominates
He'll absolutely thrash you wild, wild
He's out to whack you

He's a Nutter Queen
War pistol, tram fiend
Pensioner in neoprene
Guaranteed to spànk your bum - anytime
Argumentative all the time, a disagreeable hypocrite
Works for TIE?
76

archie12,

28/10/2009 18:36:04
So, no witty and intelligent debate on here tonight, then......
77

Journalistic licence,

In the Build a Rangers Fan Shop 28/10/2009 18:40:59
#86 why would a shop employ a baboon to open and close it's blinds? Could they not afford an asylum seeker to do that?
78

ikonoclast,

28/10/2009 18:41:50
79, sorry to disappoint you, Tony, but your pal Foo, who is as pro-tram as they come, can be seen praising the Nissan GT-R, one of the world's fastest cars, over on the £250M hotel thread.

If you want to win an agrument, it usually pays not to employ spurious generalisations.
79

JulesF,

Kirkliston 28/10/2009 19:24:55
Everybody calm down.

Obviously the secret is to 'bang some rocks together guys'

Grab a Pan Galactic Gargleblaster and chill !

Geriatric Tony is obviously taking too many pills, Foo is bovine obsessed and Tramsarefab is on a day off.

Ghost Trams will be magic, but we the proles just can't appreciate that, we of alledged limited inteligence but sound financial standing are wrong in our assumption that the Tram set will hurt our pockets. That must be true because L/Tie said so.
80

JulesF,

Kirkliston 28/10/2009 19:26:50
Geriatric Tony said 'during the war' B4stard I just spat red wine all over my laptop remembering Uncle Albert
81

Euan,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 20:11:48
It is nothing short of disgraceful that the people of Edinburgh are being forced to put up with the constant mayhem the tram project is causing.

Now, as a direct result of the tram project, we have blown electric works causing misery and loss of business to YET MORE local traders.

As the days go by, the cost of this insane project is shooting up beyond belief; and those in charge of it are simple blundering on with little or no regard as to how these massive cost overruns are going to be paid for.

And we STILL have the 'over 400' disputes between TIE and Bilfinger Berger to be settled by arbitration (with BB surely expected to win at least 70% of them, if not more)

But what all those who have forced this monstrosity upon us are still failing to ignore is what the TRUE and unseen cost of this vanity project will finally be.

We're seeing constant delays to traffic, we're seeing the slow sacrifice of Lothian Buses, we're seeing the utterly disgraceful way local traders are being treated by TIE and the council.

We are seeing the BLATANT AND COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY DESTRUCTION of a fine capital city. Not just physically, but also financially.

Unless the tram project is halted immediately, The City of Edinburgh is going to be plunged into decades of crippling debt as it struggles to pay for the huge cost overruns for the trams as well as make the forced cuts to it's every day services and amenities.

All those who support this tram project should hang their heads in shame.

I say SCRAP THE TRAMS - NOW.






82

Foo,

28/10/2009 20:12:29
#98

lol, yeah that got me too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SOFkgCINik

83

Foo,

28/10/2009 20:14:52
#99

Euan, in all honesty buddy, you come across more than a little hysterical. You're definitely the anti-tram Gorgie_Tony. Sort of like anti-matter or whatever.

moo
84

Foo,

28/10/2009 20:16:03
This bit was my favourite:

We are seeing the BLATANT AND COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY DESTRUCTION of a fine capital city.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo
85

Euan,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 20:16:22
From above, that should be: 'But what all those who have forced this monstrosity upon us are still failing to REALIZE is what the TRUE and unseen cost of this vanity project will finally be.'

86

Euan,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 20:22:29
#101, 102

Yeah, whatever 'Foo'

At least I'm someone who cares about what happens to this City.

Unlike yourself...

87

Foo,

28/10/2009 20:26:09
#105

I care...that's why I want them. Trust me, it'll all be fine. You're going to have a nervous breakdown all the time and energy you spend trying to hold back the tide.

Cheer up.
88

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 28/10/2009 20:35:41
Eventually the dumb female let me in, after I gave her a piece of my mind.

#76 gt. so after a nano second you got in eh?
what a peice of retrovert cr*p you spout. lets say that all the shops opened for cash paying customers, no cctv, wooooooooooopeeeeeeeeeeeee say the shoplifters. why dont you get out more and stop pretending that you go out! you have an asbo on you preventing you going outdoors as you are a danger to the public at large, so i've heard! go suck a fishermans friend! umptyheed, chassis for tony is best!
89

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 28/10/2009 20:40:52
utoh...tony your solicitor might also read about the "dumb female" that you were relating to in post 76, a bit below the belt that comment i think and also saying 'feminist administrator' totallly sexsist and unfounded,discrimination comes to mind as well as defamation of character and slander....all illegal!
gt you are sentenced to life in a gay bar handcuffed to the toilet facing the pan!metal wheels on the rails are best for gt
90

Euan,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 20:42:06
Foo, neither you or Silly old Man care two hoots about Edinburgh.

You only have to look at any number of the ridiculous posts you both churn out to see that's the case.

Oh, and I'm perfectly cheery thanks.

Cheerier than you anyway..
91

Foo,

28/10/2009 20:47:07
#112

lol, OK Euan, you win the 'I care most' & 'I'm happiest' competitions.
92

Euan,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 20:50:59
#115

Oh Foo, I'm sure you don't mean that..

.. you hate to lose.
93

TramGremlin,

28/10/2009 21:08:01
#39
Given that:
• Edinburgh voted for the trams
? when I must have missed that vote
• All the polls show overwhelming support for the trams
not according to your usual guff that they're all scewed!
• The huge success of the mock tram
spurious to say the least - visiting it doesn't confer support
• The trams continuing to be built despite your contradictions
...errr...ok...but VERY slowly ;)
• The complete lack of any credible opposition to the trams
the only possible opposition is thru the ballot box - just wait!
• There has been precisely zero protests against the trams
do you seriously think this would make any difference to CEC/TIE???
• The only place in Edinburgh where you can see any oppositio..
and pretty strong it is too!
94

bumf,

28/10/2009 21:40:23
Tony, I had a wet dream about you last night.

No, it's true - a tram ran you over and I pissed myself laughing!
95

bumf,

28/10/2009 21:44:33
As for GT songs, this is my favourite.

Get my scooter runnin'
Head out into Gorgie
Lookin' for some action
And whatever comes my way
Yeah bin men gonna make it happen
Take you back to my place
Spânk all of your bums at once
And expose myself

Like a true Gorgie crank
I was born, born for a spânk
I can whack so hard
Your bumcheeks will smart...
Born for a spânk!

I login at the EN
Insult all the drivers
And the striking postmen
Who pee over my letters
Yeah posties gonna make you sorry
When they get some contractors in
Fire all of you lazy maggots
And good riddance too

Like a true Gorgie child
I was born, born to be snide
I can stoop so far
You'll hate me for sure...
Born to be snide!
96

Euan,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 21:51:07
#122 RS

LOL!

Spot on.
97

Julian.,

edinburgh 28/10/2009 22:19:55
Euan,

"We are seeing the BLATANT AND COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY DESTRUCTION of a fine capital city."

That's another comment saved to be reviewed in 3 years time.

Now, how aboout answering GT's point about the expansion of trams in Nottingham and Dublin?

Incidentally, where did you get that figure of at least 70% of disputes to be won by BB. Did you not realise that most of the disputes are neither won or lost. There's usually a compromise figure decided upon. Maybe SarahB can tell us the running total so far. Because I'm pretty sure it's nowhere near 70%
98

Euan,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 22:23:28
#128 Julian

That's my personal estimate.

And I think you're wrong with what you say there.

We'll just have to wait and see..
99

Julian.,

edinburgh 28/10/2009 22:27:06
Tram Gremlin

"the only possible opposition is thru the ballot box - just wait!"

Funny that, because in 2007 nobody seemed to give 2 hoots about the trams...with 75%+ voting for pro-tram parties.

I wonder though who the anti-tram vote is going to go to? The SNP have been in charge of this so-called shambles for 2 and a half years now. Or are some of you lot going to be starting an anti-tram party?


100

Julian.,

edinburgh 28/10/2009 22:29:45
Euan,

I find it's always a good idea to not sound too over-confident with personal estimates..unless you're almost certain of the result.

We can soon do a bit of research though to get the running total so far.

Now, how about GT's question?
101

Euan,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 22:31:27
#127 Silly old Man

I don't even recall Julian asking me that question. If he did, I must have missed it.

Edinburgh's tram LINE will never become a 'system' as modern Edinburgh simply cannot accommodate all the everyday traffic AND trams. Simple.

Silly old Man, constantly trying to compare Edinburgh's tram LINE to other cities' is completely irrelevant as this insane project, as It is, sadly, unique in the fact that it will completely and utterly useless.

Oh, and once again, I simply don't care if you will 'never forget' my fare prediction. Whether I'm right or wrong, your opinion means nothing to me at all.
102

Bandy Mattlements,

28/10/2009 22:32:32
Tony, something we'll never forget is your threat of legal action:

"By the way posters - and I am talking to the ones who use personal abuse against me, and suggest that I am something that I am not. After the advice of a fellow poster, anyone who directs spiteful comments, with suggestions I am something that I am not, I will be taking screenshots, which will be stored for evidential purposes. I spoke to a solicitor this morning and he gave me some very good advice. This has been brought to the attention of the EEN - and they have also been told that any abusive comments, which suggest something I am not, must be removed, otherwise legal action will be taken against all parties concerned. Lets not forget, the EEN, holds information on all posters, so don't think you cannot be traced. I am not against those that dispute my views, but it is targeted at those that make personal comments about my private life - something they nothing about, so they make up things, which are simply not true."

Got plenty of screenshots have you? How many writs did your lawyer send out?
103

Euan,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 22:35:41
#134

Nice one.

It was one of the Silly old Man's biggest clangers to date.

If there was ever a sign that he has well and truly lost his marbles, then that was it..
104

Euan,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 22:38:07
#135

I don't mind anyone else giving personal estimates.

Even if they are deluded in the extreme..
105

Julian.,

edinburgh 28/10/2009 22:39:31
Euan,

I'm afraid to say GT is right...you are the king of (supremely confident) personal estimates.

I'm also afraid to say I agree much more with his estimates. I will make a couple of small provisos. The fare will be around £1.50 in 2012 but there may be a premium fare to go to the airport. I can see that one and it would be justified. Also tram line 3 will only get the go ahead if line 1a is deemed a success...the measure of success probably being running at near 100% capacity at peak times.

There, that's my personal estimate.
106

Euan,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 22:45:09
#137

Once again, comparing the farcical tram LINE that is sinking Edinburgh further into the mire by the day to other cities is totally irrelevant and utterly pointless.

Face it, the whole project is on the ropes with no possibility whatsoever of dragging itself out of the huge financial hole it has dug itself into.

Unless you're going to cough up about £400 million Tony?

No, thought not..
107

Julian.,

edinburgh 28/10/2009 22:46:00
Euan,

Actually, you are right. I asked RS the question last month. But anyway, I'll give you a chance to answer it yourself. Here's what I said.

Julian.,edinburgh 09/10/2009 23:07:56

"If trams are such an aged solution to our problems with negligible benefits to be had why are they currently building 4 new lines and extensions in Dublin with another 4 in the planning stage. And why is Nottingham about to build 2 new lines next year?"
108

Julian.,

edinburgh 28/10/2009 22:49:12
Euan,

Can you just tell us what was so different about the tram lines in Dublin and Nottingham. Were they somehow floated into position without any disruption to the cities on time and on budget?

Have to say, it certainly didn't look a pretty sight when I visited Nottingham in 2003.
109

Euan,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 22:50:47
#139

'The fare will be around £1.50 in 2012'

Come on Julian, even from you that is utterly ludicrous.

Good God man, by the start of next year, a single on Lothian Buses could reach that!

And where you think the money for any more tram lines will come from I don't know.

Cloud CooKoo land maybe??

110

Euan,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 22:54:46
I have always stated that trams are a very workable for of transport in other cities - but not in Edinburgh!

Guys, how many times do I need to repeat myself?

This city does not lend itself to trams. It's too hilly, too small and the streets here simply cannot (and never will) accommodate trams and all the other everyday traffic (like LRT buses) which are required to use them.

Julian:

'Can you just tell us what was so different about the tram lines in Dublin and Nottingham. Were they somehow floated into position without any disruption to the cities on time and on budget?'

There is huge disruption here and they are far, far, FAR away from being on budget.

Aren't they?


111

Euan,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 22:55:43
#147

Abuse once again Old Man.

You just can't help yourself, can you?

112

Julian.,

edinburgh 28/10/2009 22:59:21
Euan,

It's a fair argument. I doubt very much whether a Lothian Bus fair will reach £1.50 by 2012. But as far as I am aware (and I think this is on record) TIE are committed to keeping a tram fare the same as a bus fare...It's all part of the politics. Having a massively different fare would be politically impossible.

I do agree with your £3 fare but this will only be for the airport if it comes in.

The money for more tram lines would come in 5 years after the recession is over. It all hinges on the use of line 1a. If line 1a turns out to be very popular (say 80% to 100& through the day) the impetus will be for another line...even if the first one doesn't make a profit.

And remember the carbon reduction targets. They will play a role as well.
113

Euan,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 23:04:01
Julian

With recent fuel price rises, the squeeze is being put on bus companies even more; and that unfortunately is going to mean more fare hikes..

Anyway, I'd love to argue the rights and wrongs all night, but I'm off.

See you for the next part of the tram saga very soon...
114

Julian.,

edinburgh 28/10/2009 23:05:09
Euan,

You seem to imply there was no huge diruption in these other cities...that's cloud cuckoo land my friend. I was there and saw the diruption.

And if we are far away from being on budget here the Luas in Dublin was light years away from it:-

"The cost of building the Red and Green Lines was €770m.[20] This was three times original predictions that the system would cost €254m."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luas
115

Julian.,

edinburgh 28/10/2009 23:07:25
GT,

I wonder how outraged Euan would have been if he was a Dubliner? Probably would have gone on hunger strike or something;-)
116

Julian.,

edinburgh 28/10/2009 23:07:55
I suppose we'll just have to wait until tomorrow night.
117

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 28/10/2009 23:25:31
Tony (156) - that is an interesting snippet re Lothian Buses. Can I ask where that information came from as the last I heard Lothian Buses were intending to lay off more bus drivers and passenger numbers were still falling, albeit not as sharply as before?

I am very concerned about the future of bus services in Edinburgh and would be most grateful if you could post me a link to Lothian Buses' figures for the last three months.
118

Julian.,

edinburgh 28/10/2009 23:37:59
Hi Sarah B,

Maybe you could shed some light. What's the tally so far in diputes resolved between TIE and BB? Who's won the most outright or partially?
119

emperor tomato ketchup,

28/10/2009 23:41:37
#154

Wow. What an incredibly offensive statement.
120

Julian.,

edinburgh 28/10/2009 23:52:41
#160,

I apologise.

He probably would have chained himself to a tram rail.
121

emperor tomato ketchup,

29/10/2009 00:01:25
#161

A bit odd how you keep going on about the LUAS then you drop that almighty clanger.

Trying to make light of it with a reference to the Pankhurst isn't going to lessen what you've said.

I cannot believe that you've had the rank stupidity reference to "Dubliner" hunger strikers.

Offensive and no other word for it. The arrogance of the comment only matches its ignorance of history and geography.

What a completely stupid thing to say.



122

Julian.,

edinburgh 29/10/2009 01:59:22
#162

If you can't accept a genuine apology and have to keep going on it probably says more about you than me.
123

emperor tomato ketchup,

29/10/2009 02:16:05

Your comment@ 154 is offensive: "I wonder how outraged Euan would have been if he was a Dubliner? Probably would have gone on hunger strike or something;-)"

All your talk of LUAS and now you're on about hunger strikes. Dublin ones as well.

You make a statement about Dublin like that, and all you can apologise with is some guff about the suffragettes?

Jesus

124

emperor tomato ketchup,

29/10/2009 02:18:06
Sorry Julian, but it wasn't a 'genuine apology'

It was weasel-worded guff.
125

emperor tomato ketchup,

29/10/2009 02:21:16


I cannot believe that Julian has said Euan would be a "hunger striker" if he was from Dublin.


What a monumantally f***ing stupid comment from Julian, self styled voice of reason.

Are you going to start on about the pope next?
126

Julian.,

edinburgh 29/10/2009 04:31:38
As you have just confirmed, says a lot about you.

Who said anything about the suffragettes anyway? Talk of people chaining themselves to rails is a pretty general reference.

I'm curious as to why a light-hearted reference to republican hunger strikers (which it wasn't anyway) is regarded by you as the most shocking of insults.
127

Julian.,

edinburgh 29/10/2009 04:33:17
"Sorry Julian, but it wasn't a 'genuine apology'

It was weasel-worded guff."

And that wasn't an apology either...despite the use of the word sorry.
128

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 29/10/2009 08:16:44
Tony (158) - thank you.

Julian (159) - sorry, I can't help with that one. In fact, it is becoming increasingly harder to get any kind of handle on any aspect of the funding so we shall just have to wait and see what emerges.
129

BOOKER,

29/10/2009 10:05:05
PATHETIC
130

ten pound tourist,

kooringal australia 29/10/2009 12:18:09
can we get back to the article in the newspaper children
131

Incandescent,

29/10/2009 17:28:55
#158 G-Tone

"That information came from a very confidential source. And I can assure you that the source is completely reliable with such information!! The source is an employee of LB - in a very high up position"

You seriously expect us to believe that a pensioner who sits on a bench in Gorgie and uses epithets such as "dumb female" has senior management connections?

I suggest that is nothing more than utter, utter poppycock.

 

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