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Strife in the slow lane for cars as £2m bus lanes plan unveiled



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Published Date: 27 November 2008
EDINBURGH is set for even more congestion as work begins on a multi-million pound scheme to create a series of new bus lanes.
The project will see an initial £2 million spent on a range of bus priority measures in the south-east of the city in the next two years as transport bosses aim to cut journey times, increase passenger numbers and promote regeneration.

But while t
he move will be welcomed by bus passengers, motoring groups today accused the council of trying to "force" them on to public transport.

The work, which is set to begin in the spring, will also add to the congestion nightmare caused by the tram roadworks.

The measures include new bus lanes along Lady Road, on Old Dalkeith Road to the Edinburgh Royal Infirmary and between Cameron Toll and Niddrie. There will also be new lanes at The Wisp, Liberton Road and at Newcraighall park and ride.

The idea was first explored after plans for tram line 3 to the ERI and Newcraighall were shelved following the "no" vote in 2005's road tolls referendum.

However, the measures approved this week by the council's transport committee do not include plans for a guided busway to the ERI which first emerged in 2006 and would have been similar to the stretch between Stenhouse and Broomhouse, which opened in 2004 at a cost of £14m.

Councillor Phil Wheeler, the city's transport leader, said: "The council is fully committed to encouraging social regeneration and economic growth in south-east Edinburgh.

"In order for this to become a reality, we must put in place a sustainable transport infrastructure capable of meeting the demand that will undoubtedly result from future developments in this part of the city.

"We are proposing a phased approach, generating a fully integrated transport mix, including priority bus routes, park and rides, cycle paths and, ultimately, tram line 3."

But Bruce Young, Lothian and Borders co-ordinator of the Association of British Drivers, said:

"I really don't see how bus lanes ease congestion. I think every bus lane in the city should be reviewed and serious consideration given to the number of buses thatuse them.

"Bus lanes have become part of the council's anti-car policy. I think they were introduced to make life more difficult for motorists."

The first phase of measures, which will be funded from the council's transport budget, will now go out to public consultation. It is hoped the scheme could be finished by 2011.

Bill Campbell, Lothian Buses' operations director, said: "The proposal to create a series of bus priority measures along these major arterial routes into the city centre will be of great benefit to bus users."





The full article contains 461 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 November 2008 9:42 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Edinburgh transport plans
 
1

allknowing,

27/11/2008 11:49:04
Its quite simple, 1/2 the road space, double the congestion.

yest it may make travel faster for the minority who are forced to use public transport, but will create more congestion for everyone else.

Another punishment for not voting in the congestion charging.!!!
2

Dileas,

27/11/2008 11:57:03
Yes, just how many of the recently introduced suburban bus lanes actually carry more than one bus in every ten minutes inbound in the morning and outbound at night - yet are in place in both directions for the full working day? Yet they deny hald fo the available roadway to all other vehicles, not just the cars that the City Council wants to squeeze off the roads.
3

Dileas,

27/11/2008 11:58:09
And aren't we actually reducing the number of buses due to lack of demand? SO why would this smaller number of buses need more of the road?
4

Statsman,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 12:01:59
It's not like Edinburgh Council to waste vast amounts of money on pointless transport projects that no one wants or needs. Oh, wait...
5

Padraig,

27/11/2008 12:05:15
"EDINBURGH is set for even more congestion as work begins on a multi-million pound scheme to create a series of new bus lanes (which) will see an initial £2 million spent on a range of bus priority measures in the south-east of the city in the next two years as transport bosses aim to cut journey times, increase passenger numbers and promote regeneration."

How can these new road narrowing steps possibly ease congestion? Unless it is caused entirely by buses, tail-to-tail?

Is the real problem not all the other road users but actually too many buses? Is this why Lothian Buses wants to cut back on services?

I don't think so, somehow - so why stab Edinburgh residents in the back by denying them the use of our existing roads?
6

fresian,

edinburgh 27/11/2008 12:11:03
There is no justification for a bus lane at the Wisp, nor anywhere else around that area, at present the bulk of the congestion is actually caused by buses being used ar mobile roadblocks, time to vote Wheeler out, along with his sandal and lycra wearing cooncil cronies.
7

Hmm ...,

27/11/2008 12:13:26
... "an INITIAL £2 million spent on a range of bus priority measures in the south-east of the city"

Just how many millions do they intend to spend in creating congestion in the south-east area of the city?

And how many buses will actually use each lane during the rush hour?

Yes - it is time that we reviewed the policy of the city's Trotsky-inspired transport "managers". And reconsidered their position - is it their job to make life difficult for us? Or to provide facilities? And why are we paying them if they won't do their job?
8

Trams shams,

27/11/2008 12:14:56
"The idea was first explored after plans for tram line 3 to the ERI and Newcraighall were shelved following the "no" vote in 2005's road tolls referendum."

Sorry but what does the road tolls have to do with line 3... More miss reporting!!
9

Hmm ...,

27/11/2008 12:16:07
... we already have bus lanes at Straiton now being extended out toward Penicuik - and one bus every ten minutes at peak periods. So how can this be said to ease congestion when the steady stream of traffic is to have half the road as a result?
10

Hmm ...,

27/11/2008 12:19:30
Trams (8) - the tram line three was to be financed by the road toll scheme, so was shelved when the referendum gave the idea the elbow.

I agree with you, though, that the main effect of the trams will be to transfer roads to their priority and often sole use - and deny them to all other road users as a result. A sort of "super bus lane" if you could call an expensive disaster "super"!
11

,

27/11/2008 12:19:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 12:23:46
Here is yet another crazy scheme aimed at increasing journey times for all.

Bus lanes do not aid the flow of buses, they merely slow down the flow of other traffic. We should be getting rid of them, not building more.

Tell you what... Why don't we have a campaign of ignoring bus lane restrictions for a month? That should be enough to demonstrate beyond al doubt how much congestion they cause and how they are harming Edinburgh.
13

,

27/11/2008 12:24:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
14

Marathon,

27/11/2008 12:26:48
All knowing. You know boogerall about transport planning.
15

Duncan in Edinburgh,

27/11/2008 12:28:14
#2 None of them. Next question?
16

JJH,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 12:28:17
Do away with the bus lanes, greenways & tramworks - then Edinburgh traffic will run very smoothly.
Thank you
17

Statsman,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 12:28:36
14 Marathon

Sounds like he knows an equal amount or more than the council's 'experts' then.
18

Destroy the Planet,

27/11/2008 12:29:13
Power to the buses !
19

Padraig,

27/11/2008 12:29:34
Ananda #11 said "There is a clear need for sustainable infrastructure projects in scotland and this news can only be welcomed. It seem it may take time for the locals to come to terms with it , but for inner cities , the car was never going to be a solution for the 21st Century."

Don't be daft - you can't uninvent the car which has made people much more mobile and have a better life, living further from work. At best, buses are a poor alternative for people who can't use a car.

And just how are buses "sustainable", when they need such high subsidies to operate (VAT back, fuel duty refunded) yet run near empty for most of the day and create so much particulate emission, being diesel-powered?
20

Duncan in Edinburgh,

27/11/2008 12:31:17
#12 No matter how many times this lie is refuted - and I mean refuted, there is hard evidence showing significant journey time reduction from bus lanes - you continue to spout it.

A campaign of ignoring restrictions will just increase frustration and stress on the roads for everyone. There are already enough self-righteous idiots like yourself who flout the rules and block bus lanes on a daily basis without adding to the problem.
21

Dorian,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 12:32:43
I will agree with this plan when the bus drivers stop pulling out from the bus lane without looking in their mirrors. I have nearly been side swiped at least 4 times per week because the driver puts the indicator on and then begins pulling out, the only reason it doesn't hit me is because I use the horn otherwise I think there would be a collision. Also, how do buses manage to overtake in their bus lane when traffic is moving at 30mph, do bus lanes have a special speed limit, I don't think so.
22

Duncan in Edinburgh,

27/11/2008 12:33:52
#19 No-one is suggesting un-inventing the car - put your straw man away. The point is that in compact cities like ours there is simply no room for all the cars that want to go in and out. The number of cars on the road has doubled in 20 years. They just don't fit. Sustainable solutions are essential.
23

malcyh,

27/11/2008 12:34:45
Did anyone notice how easy it was to get around when the bus strike was on and the green lanes opened? So who's causing the congestion?
24

Statsman,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 12:38:15
22 Duncan in Edinburgh

Your 'sustainable' council morons forced families to move out of Edinburgh massively increasing travel into Edinburgh. No one is listening to the left-wing mental midgets any more. They get it wrong all the time.
25

Dileas,

27/11/2008 12:38:25
Duncan (20) said "No matter how many times this lie is refuted - and I mean refuted, there is hard evidence showing significant journey time reduction from bus lanes - you continue to spout it."

Yes, for buses, provided, as you admit in (15), the bus lanes are used by not more than one bus in every ten minutes - otherwise they close up on each other and form a moving traffic jam for the buses behind!

And the other road traffic is all gridlocked because it is squeezed into the other half of the road!
26

Bob 2,

27/11/2008 12:39:23
cant write stuff like this

Councillor Phil Wheeler, the city's transport leader, said: "The council is fully committed to encouraging social regeneration and economic growth in south-east Edinburgh.

"In order for this to become a reality, we must put in place a sustainable transport infrastructure capable of meeting the demand that will undoubtedly result from future developments in this part of the city.

"We are proposing a phased approach, generating a fully integrated transport mix, including priority bus routes, park and rides, cycle paths and, ultimately, tram line 3."

Line 3

with line 1b "going", line 2 and 3 may not B
27

Chancer,

27/11/2008 12:41:39
Wasn't it just last week ( Thursday I think ) the EN reported that 11 routes were to be cancelled/cut back due to lack of use. One of which was the X48, the bus which connects the Park and Ride at Ingliston to the new one at Newcraighall ( which only opened last month ). So they've spent hundreds of thousands ( possibly more ) building 2 Park and Ride sites, but you'll only be able to do the parking bit, go figure huh, someone hasn't thought this through. Oh and it also has a knock on effect for anyone living in Ratho as this is the only bus which serves there, so if you live in ratho and don't own a car/drive you are well and truly stuck.
28

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 27/11/2008 12:42:20
#25 - car drivers cause the gridlock, not the council.
Typical motorist, blames EVERYONE else for their traffic jams.
29

Pond Hall,

27/11/2008 12:48:16
the great bus debate AGAIN

23 malcyh,27/11/2008 12:34:45 Did anyone notice how easy it was to get around when the bus strike was on and the green lanes opened? So who's causing the congestion?

Has anyone noticed that during the school holidays that there are less cars on the road and that buses run to time.

So who's causing the congestion?

The bus strike was only for a day or two during the summer. People took the day off or walked

What would have happened if it had been during the winter and for more than 1 day.

Imagine for every peak time double deck bus if all the passengers used a car?

another 100 cars for very bus, I'll let you work out the road space that they would take up and the congestion it would cause!
30

Padraig,

27/11/2008 12:48:36
Duncan (19) said "No-one is suggesting un-inventing the car ... The point is that in compact cities like ours there is simply no room for all the cars that want to go in and out. The number of cars on the road has doubled in 20 years. They just don't fit. Sustainable solutions are essential."

Sorry - you are plain wrong. The centre of this city is no more compact than any other (unless you mean "small" - some other cities which DO have parking problems are many times larger than Edinburgh.

Edinburgh's problem with cars is a combination of Labour anti-car policy and a resulting refusal to permit offices to have sufficient car parking built in to accommodate staff's cars and insufficient central off-street parking.

Their argument was that these parking spaces would place a burden of the road network yet they are having to half the available road space to create the congestion that they claimed existed in the first place!

Bus lanes slow all other road traffic more than they speed up buses, particularly in suburban areas where the City Council is now planning to spread more bus lanes.
31

Duncan in Edinburgh,

27/11/2008 12:50:17
#25 None of the suburban lines are in place 24hrs a day, which is why the answer to your #2 was "none of them". Sorry if that was too confusing for you.
32

Padraig,

27/11/2008 12:52:05
Road rage (28) said "Typical motorist, blames EVERYONE else for their traffic jams."

No - your bigotry is showing. We blame ONLY the City's transport managers, who are trying to squeeze cars off the road as part of their Trotskyist social engineering dogma. And the gullible LibDem councillors who should be supervising them.
33

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 27/11/2008 12:52:30
now let me get all the posts correct here! your blaming trams, then blaming cars, then blaming councilors. ermmmmmm excuse me...who voted for them idiots to get into power in the first place? so therefor the blame of the fiacsco of this city lies firmly with the populace who voted for them and really at the end of t he day it is them (the councilors) that are devastating this lovely city
34

malcyh,

27/11/2008 12:52:57
Ok 29 so it is the school runs which are making life difficult and clogging up the roads. Perhaps we should let them walk to school and get a bit of exercise then.
Not everyone took the day off or walked. There was obviously more traffice on the road (no buses) hence the green lanes were opend to accomodate. Most people went to work.
35

Padraig,

27/11/2008 12:53:09
Interesting, though, how suddenly a wave of pro-bus lane posters came on - has the City Council PR department suddenly realised this report is in today's News?
36

Duncan in Edinburgh,

27/11/2008 12:53:09
#30 Are you actually so stupid as to only read one part of a sentence and react to it in isolation?

What I said was the number of cars travelling in and out of the city has doubled. That's fact. The problem is the number of cars, not the number of parking spaces. It is moving road space which is fully utilised in the city. Parking space is easy to regulate with charging, which is why on any given day there are usually parking spaces available. The problem is, for the third time, there are TOO MANY CARS TRAVELLING THROUGH THE CITY.
37

thehitmaster,

Penicuik 27/11/2008 12:57:09
Bus lanes to Liberton ? So what are all those lanes there at the moment then? From Princes Street all the way out to Straiton bus lanes are in place and in use. Beyond Straiton SESTran have also created bus lanes all the way to Penicuik to help relieve the congestion - that didn't exist - still SESTran & the local authorities are all hell bent on making the use of the car harder by day. And if we do need all the extra bus lanes, where are all the extra buses - thats right they're all being cut back!
38

MGJ,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 12:57:23
So according to the car lobby, all Edinburgh roads have two lanes and adding a bus lane will slow down cars. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the funnel. Widening the top or any part thereof except the bottom does not increase flow.

I look forward to High Octane Fuel Head starting to argue against all on street parking because that too restricts the number of lanes available to race at 30 mph between traffic lights.
39

I love to eat Sellotape,

27/11/2008 13:01:02
Bus lanes are great. Try one today. They're particularly nice with a sprinkling of cinnamon on the top.
40

,

27/11/2008 13:01:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
41

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 13:02:11
It is good to see that the council are continuing with their policy of reducing congestion and improving journey times. The ABD's policies would lead to more people dying in road crashes, more congestion and more noise.
42

Son of Gramsci,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 13:08:40
More lovely bus lanes to cycle in, brilliant.
43

Edinburgh 100,

Musselburgh 27/11/2008 13:08:49
Bus lanes, cycle lanes etc. All have no effect on what happens in the city. Cooncilors etc will shout out the c@@p that has been stated in the article above. But in reality its to do with budgets. They get money from Holyrood, Westminster and even the EU. They need to spend it or they lose it. It also ticks boxes when it comes to how our cooncilors are looked at and compared to other council. Oh look Edinburgh has X ammount of cycle and bus lanes whilst NumptyCity has far less isnt Edinburgh council doing a grand job, back slaps all round, give ourseleves a well earned bonus. It doesnt matter if the bus lanes/cycle lanes etc actually achieve anything. The cooncilors can stand there with head high stating what a wonderful job they are doing.
44

capy,

27/11/2008 13:16:38
#23 Yea i did. I was out deliverying in Edinburgh and it was a great day. I remember calling in to Talk 107 and giving them a liv ecommentry as i roared up Leith Walk. Oh happy days.
45

James (1),

27/11/2008 13:21:38
Bus lanes are a good thing during peak periods. The problem they create however is outwith those periods when the powers that be have them in operation all day. That is not best use of the roads. As #1 said if you half the road you create congestion.
If the traffic lights on the route the bus travels were all kept at green, that would speed up bus travel. Is it necessary however? No because it would cause grid lock elsewhere. Of course bus users would find nothing wrong with this. Selfish? Of course they are! Road users need a fair share of the road. We need sensible use of the roads
46

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 27/11/2008 13:27:01
#13 Statsman

Your xenophobia is highly evident and discouraging.

I suppose there is no way to discuss with you unless one is a born and bred in Scotland

It was my impression that this was an democratic forum open to considered comments from around the world.

It seems you would have it otherwise and NOT learn from the experiences of those cities and countries NOT in Scotland and which have benefitted from what the transport committee is suggesting.

I am a "foreigner", as is Ananda Krishnan, and take offense at your seeming racism and obvious close-mindedness.

Yes, we have dedicated buslanes in Ottawa, CANADA that have relieved auto congestion for about 20 years and if this offends your delicate sensiblilities then you and your like-minded relics can stay ensconsed in the 20th century and wallow there, fulminating all the time against progress and adapting to the challenges of the 21st century.
47

Son of Gramsci,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 13:28:52
#46
Well said Tim. I'm in Edinburgh and welcome comments from round the world.
48

I love to eat Sellotape,

27/11/2008 13:32:10
I'm from Jwoifhoh.
49

MGJ,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 13:33:54
#43 That is rubbish. Under the new SOA, all the targets that they are interested in are included in one document http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/internet/Attachments/Internet/Council/Council_Business/Council_publications/SOA_draft_v4.3_with_images

See Pages 13, 17 in particular.
50

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 13:35:14
Duncan, Dileas etc:

Think of it in this greatly simplified example...

You have one bus and an empty bus lane. The rest of the traffic is moving along at a slow speed in one other lane. consider car "A" in the said lane. The bus overtakes it as it's progress is unrestricted. It then stops at the bus stop, wereupon it is then overtaken by car "A". The bus then sets off and overtakes car "A" once more. Then repeat ad-nausium.

Now consider this. You have a 2 lane road with no bus lane. Car "A" and the bus are level with each other. The bus stops at the bus stop and then car "A" disappears into the distance. By the time the bus leaves the bus stop, car "A" is out of sight, never to be caught by the bus again.

The average speed of the bus is exactly the same in both circumstances. It is the speed of the car that has been reduced by the bus lanes.

The only time that this doesn't hold true is during times of exceptional congestion when there has been an incident on the roads, blocking traffic. Even then, the buses will end up bunching and delaying themselves in a relatively short period of time.

I agree that the journey time for buses has improved RELATIVE to the same journey in a car, however this is because the car has been slowed down as opposed to the bus being speeded up.

51

Bring Back Poll Tax,

27/11/2008 13:35:41
#11 - what - exactly - is "sustainable" supposed to mean?

It's merely an appalling example of cunsultant-speak trotted out to lend an air of "I know what I'm talking about" to their pointless briefing/strategy/hot air papers.

All it actually means is "a weeeeee bit less unsustainable that whatever I don't like". Buses, like cars, burn hydrocarbons so neither is actually "sustainable" for ever.
52

,

27/11/2008 13:36:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
53

Ron D,

27/11/2008 13:36:50
Just another bit of highway code for the car drivers to ignore. We'll be expecting them to stop at pedestrian crossings next.
54

Dragonlord,

27/11/2008 13:37:30
During the bus drivers strike the congestion AND polution were vastly reduced. The council refuse to publish the figures and only grudgingly admitted reduced congestion. Time for these numpties to be be brought to task, as they are only wasting money.
55

Corstorphine Jambo,

EDINBURGH 27/11/2008 13:38:48
I regularly use the bus from Corstorphine to Haymarket during the peak hour and there is no doubt that the bus journeys take less time thanks to the bus lanes. Where I do have a quibble though is some of the bus lanes e.g. South Gyle are on all day when there is absolutely no reason for it. I therefore support the use of bus lanes but think they are still capable of being improved.
56

,

27/11/2008 13:39:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
57

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 13:39:39
And another thing...

I remember asking one of Lothian & Borders' finest why the bus lane along the Corstorphine Road had suddenly been extended, causing so much traffic chaos. Bear in mind that this was right at the start of the madness and before the propaganda machine had fully kicked into action.

His reply was, and I quote, "They're there to delay and inconvenience motorists". That is almost certainly going to be the real truth behind bus lanes.
58

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 13:47:02
#56:

If I can drive from Wester Hailes to Leith in 20 mins in a car and it takes me at least an hour to do the same journey on (more than one) bus, guess what option I'm going to take if time is of the essence? Especially if I have things to carry with me, including possibly, a baby?

There are times when buses make perfect sense and there are also times when a car or a motorbike makes perfect sense as well. You choose your mode of transport according to the circumstances---and no, I am not one of those lazy people who get in the car to go round the corner in order to buy a packet of fags.
59

Uncle Piehead,

27/11/2008 13:47:06
Bus lanes aeroplanes and tramlines taking off and landing the emptiest of feelings

people clinging onto bottles

a job that slowly kills you. bruises that won't heal

you look so tired unhappy bring down the government

one day i am going to grow wings

fitter, happier, not drinking too much, sleeping eight hours every night

disappointed people clinging onto bottles

when it comes it's so-so. disappointing

crushed like a bug in the ground. let down
and hanging around.

shellsuits, cases full of buckfast. don't get sentimental. it always ends up dribble

one day i am gonna grow wings
a chemical reaction
hysterical and useless
hysterical and let down and hanging around

transport, bus lanes and tramlines
the emptiest of feelings
60

Bill MacD,

27/11/2008 13:47:12
Another case of gross stupidity by all the car-obsessives who complain about this sort of scheme. All the actual evidence is that more people are enabled to commute more quickly and with less pollution etc. But some people care not a whit for evidence, but can only bring their pub-logic and fact-free self-centred bias to bear on any situation. Rather pathetic.
61

,

27/11/2008 13:48:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
62

Duncan in Edinburgh,

27/11/2008 13:50:58
#50 Petrolhead, please take the following fact on board: bus journey times have been reduced by the introduction of bus lanes in Edinburgh. Not reduced in comparison with car journey times, reduced in comparison with previous bus journey times.

A salient example is the A71 out to the Park and Ride at Riccarton. Average bus journey times were cut by almost a half when that lane was introduced.

Shorter bus journeys serves to promote bus travel.

All that said, in my view there is no point in investing in new bus lanes until we can maximise the effect of the current ones. I would prefer to see some millions spent on policing the existing bus lanes, especially on the A7/701 corridor, where cars and vans are parked every day during rush hour, due to the selfishness of those road users.
63

FED UP WITH COUNCIL DEPARTMENTS,

27/11/2008 13:56:10
Why do we need more bus lanes when they tell us passenger numbers are down and the number of buses are being cut. Also the routes they are going to change are not congested at present as most of them are my daily route to and from work. The only congestion at present is being caused by the never ending road works
64

Padraig,

27/11/2008 13:56:25
Duncan in Edinburgh (36) said
"#30 Are you actually so stupid as to only read one part of a sentence and react to it in isolation? What I said was the number of cars travelling in and out of the city has doubled. That's fact. The problem is the number of cars, not the number of parking spaces. It is moving road space which is fully utilised in the city. Parking space is easy to regulate with charging, which is why on any given day there are usually parking spaces available. The problem is, for the third time, there are TOO MANY CARS TRAVELLING THROUGH THE CITY."

Don't be gratuitously offensive - you demean yourself and demonstrate the weakness of your argument.

I was commenting on that perticular statement, which I made the point of repeating.

As for your point of cars doubling, this increase has not been supported by an increase in off-street parking due to the dogma-driven policy of preventing a like increase in parking availability of off-street parking and artificially narrowing the available road space - by the introduction of bus lanes. As I have already said, when your response was to descend into the gutter approach of abuse.

If you have a valid argument to make, provide supporting evidence. I accept that you claim detailed knowledge of road statistics and that, together with your blind suport for Council policy leads me to believe that you are a town hall employee, in which case your behaviour is unacceptable in a public servant. Try to behave as such a creature should.
65

Uncle Piehead,

27/11/2008 13:56:59
Yadda yadda yadda.

Yoda: "Do or do not. There is no try"
66

Uncle Piehead,

27/11/2008 13:58:03


TRAMS.WILL.SINK.US.NO.NEW.BUS.LANES.
67

Son of Gramsci,

Embra 27/11/2008 14:00:20
Personally, I think that much of the slowness of Edinburgh busses is caused by the delay of each passenger paying the driver (or blipping their pass ) one by one as they slowly shuffle onto the bus. Thus, a bus going from the top of Leith walk to Lothian Road, for example, spends about 5 minutes moving along the bus lanes, and 20 minutes either at stops or waiting for other buses to leave stops.

Many European cities have busses which you can just jump on by any door, and cancel your own ticket at a machine (if you are not carrying a pass). That would speed things up. OK, you'd get more potential fare dodging, and maybe need a few more inspectors. However, each driver would be able to cover a much greater distance, and speedier busses would encourrage more passengers. Must be worth a try.
68

James (1),

27/11/2008 14:03:13
#60 Well said Bill! At least you have looked at it intelligently with your biased eye and not taken into consideration the motorist. Quite right ignore them!
We need more biased people like you.
Those who do not really have a point always grasp at the "save the world", "think of the children" or "carbon footprint".
When really they do not care at all. Now that is pathetic.
69

Duncan in Edinburgh,

27/11/2008 14:05:06
#64 What is gratuitously offensive about asking if you are stupid? Are you seriously that thin-skinned?

Your comment on that "perticular" statement suggested that parking was the issue here. It never has been. In fact on a typical day in Edinburgh there are several hundred parking spaces available at any given time. So why make such an inane comment? Parking has NOTHING to do with the issue of bus lanes being used to encourage public transport usage and thereby reduce traffic.

Oh, and "town hall employee"? Where are you from, sunshine? Not Edinburgh, that's for sure. We have no "town hall". No, I don't work for the council, and I won't be lectured on behaviour by someone who can't grasp the difference between driving and parking.
70

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 14:05:56
#62:

Duncan:

Here's one for you...

When they temporarily suspended the bus lane on the West Approach Road heading into town, the traffic flowed much faster and more smoothly, despite there being roadworks at the Lothian Road junction. Now it is back in force, the traffic queues have returned.

Is this not proof positive that this particular stretch of bus lane serves to cause congestion? It certainly is to me.

You are deluding yourself if you actually believe the propaganda which says that bus lane improve bus travel times. Yeah, sure they APPEAR to because to the casual observer on the bus, it appears that the thing is constantly overtaking cars. However, closer examination will show that the bus is constantly passing and re-passing THE SAME set of cars repeatedly. If it wasn't for the bus lanes delaying them, this set of cars would be adjacent to the bus ONCE and once only. They would then disappear into the sunset.

Bus lanes are anti-car, not pro-buses.
71

Decent,

27/11/2008 14:10:32
58 - I am.
72

Redbruce,

27/11/2008 14:10:58
52, 56
Many people affected by the traffic congestion schemes live outwith Edinburgh's boundary and cannot vote the council off. What would you suggest they do? They work and shop and help sustain Edinburgh, if they stop coming Edinburgh would shrivel. What do you mean when you talk about management of a city? To what end? What fears would you have if the citizens were uncontrolled?
73

Brian Ferrari,

27/11/2008 14:15:03
#62 Duncan

If you have something against selfishness, what about the selfishness of bus users delaying car users?

Neil

74

Padraig,

27/11/2008 14:15:33
There is a difference between saying that a comment is stupid and that the speaker is. The second is abusive and the first is not. "Town hall" is an expression alluding to small mindedness in public employees rather than a misunderstanding of the physical building. But then you clearly are unaware of that. And the issues (yes, two issues) of parking and driving into the city centre are linked by the same approach to social engineering employed by Edinburgh's City Council employees. And therefore valid.
75

Brian Ferrari,

27/11/2008 14:18:33
#70

I have to admit, I generally ignore the bus lane on the western approach road (as do quite a large number of people) and also the one at the foot of Lothian Road when I turn left into Rutland Street.

In doing the latter I don't hold up any buses and also it means the cars behind me are one car further forward! It's a win-win situation...
76

James (1),

27/11/2008 14:23:27
#70 you and Duncan are the prime example of what is wrong with our approach to transport issues.
Neither will compromise nor assess the actual needs of others.
My personal view (as a car driver) is there is a need for bus lanes at certain times of the day. The peak periods when buses are actually full.
The remainder of the day when they are running almost empty, there is no reason to keep them in operation. Mind you even those not in operation all day have stupid car drivers moving out the bus lane. Why do they do this?
You both end up arguing about bus lane or no bus lane and that way no progress will ever be reached because you turn it into a for or against all bus lanes.
If any road planner (you have to laugh when you think planning is being applied)reading this would only come away with some are for it and some are against it.
"Bus lanes are anti-car, not pro-buses".
The bus lane is a good tool to speed up public travel if properly applied. It is a road block is left unrestricted.
77

Son of Gramsci,

Embra 27/11/2008 14:23:55
#75 While I'm sure that you check your mirrors for bikes before cutting into the bus lane at at the foot of Lothian Road, not all drivers do, which can be a bit of a hazard.

There are also a surprising number of drivers who are ignorant of the meaning of a red cicle with a car in it, and still turn into Shandwick Place.
78

Duncan in Edinburgh,

27/11/2008 14:23:56
#70 I fear we are having a dialogue of the deaf, as usual. I am not talking about perception, I'm talking about traffic monitoring studies done on behalf of the council which showed reduced journey times on the A71 corridor. Of course, you have your magic get-out-of-jail-free card to play on that one - whenever a statistic doesn't agree with your gut feeling you simply say it's a lie. Perhaps we should give up now.
79

Duncan in Edinburgh,

27/11/2008 14:31:10
#76 At no time have I said that bus lanes should be active when they are unnecessary. There is, unfortunately, a large constituency of car drivers who avoid painted areas of roads whatever time they hit them. I have had conversations on here with them, where people have said "I don't know what time they are active so I avoid them at all times". It's pure ignorance.
80

Uncle Piehead,

27/11/2008 14:33:27
A lot of cars look like they were on a special offer, like "Buy this toaster and get a matching car"

Automotive design is degenerating rapidly. In roughly two years time all cars will look like toys.
81

,

27/11/2008 14:35:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
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82

Duncan in Edinburgh,

27/11/2008 14:35:24
#76 I would go so far as to say that there are some short stretches of bus lane in the city which need to be removed altogether because they make no sense, and are routinely ignored, which undermines the effectiveness of all other bus lanes when drivers see the pointlessness of those ones. I'm thinking in particular of the A71 at Chesser between the prison and the right turn, and Leith Street between Omni and Waterloo Place. Both of these have right-turn-only lanes next to them, and straight-on traffic cannot filter through without using the bus lane.

But the bulk of lanes IMHO work well.
83

,

27/11/2008 14:37:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
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84

Council Insider,

Council HQ 27/11/2008 14:44:43
#67. Good shout. Also only having one door on the newer buses slows things down as well.
85

charliecha cha,

27/11/2008 14:47:27
Exellent news,well done the council.
86

roadstohell,

27/11/2008 14:48:31
If the council was seriously aiming to help ease congestion, they would allow motorcycles & scooters and such use the lanes. The fact that they rejected this is proof that they are anti car/motorcyle etc, in fact anti personal motorised transport.
87

Statsman,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 14:52:25
46 TimW1234

Utter tosh. Why should people living thousands of miles away dictate what Edinburgh's transport is like? You are in Canada and the other one is in Malaysia. Neither of you are affected by this council's moronic actions.

If a Pole or anyone else that LIVES IN EDINBURGH wants their say, fine by me. They pay their taxes here and have to deal with the consequences. You don't.
88

FF,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 15:07:56
Makes sense to me. Bus lanes only get put in when there are two lanes available. Car drivers have the choice: they can take their chance in the car lane or opt for a potentially faster journey in the bus lane. Those that don't have a choice, because they don't have a car, get a better service.

There has been a move to public transport from car travel in recent years, so maybe bus lanes do reduce overall conjestion.
89

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 15:08:40
#76:

"...stupid car drivers moving out the bus lane. Why do they do this?"

Because they are stupid.

"The bus lane is a good tool to speed up public travel if properly applied. It is a road block is left unrestricted."

I agree. Bus lanes were initially used to ease the flow of buses in and out of terminii or across certain junctions. They were never intended to be plastered all the way down major access routes for the purpose of reserving half the road for 10% or less of the traffic. And that is exactly what they are being used for in Edinburgh.

If the bus lanes were restricted to where they are actually needed to speed up bus flow with minimal impact on other traffic then I wouldn't have a problem with them. However that is not the case. They are laid down in order to cause the motorist maximum inconvenience. In fact, there are several points around the city where the presence of the bus lane actually constitutes a danger. There are even places where it would be impossible for some vehicles to make progress without breaking the law.

They are using these things purely as an anti-car tool, which is why I am so much against them.
90

Uncle Piehead,

San Diego 27/11/2008 15:11:36
#46

Utter tosh. There's nothing more boring than reading the misinformed garble of people 1000s of miles away.

91

,

27/11/2008 15:14:37
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92

Decent,

27/11/2008 15:33:37
Hmmmmm
93

tumshie heid,

27/11/2008 15:38:27
More bus lanes = more congestion. This council has tried everything to p##s off the motorist. Now it is going to paint even more of the roads green and exclude traffic from them.
Have any of the posters who are defending this move considered that not everyone wants to travel on public transport and that they shouldn't be punished for that reason?
94

,

27/11/2008 15:40:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
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95

,

27/11/2008 15:40:48
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96

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 27/11/2008 15:41:12
#87 Statsman

Why are you so defensive? Neither myself nor the poster from Malaysia were "dictating" anything.

What we were relating was our personal experiences and their success in our FOREIGN countries.

Obviously, you are a "see-and-do" type of person who relies ONLY on what affects YOU and what conveniences or does NOT inconvenience YOU.

Research, a world-view, a wider outlook, an open mind do not seem to be part of your personal mind-baggage.

By the way, these dedicated buslanes are only in operation here during the morning and evening rush hours and are opened up at all other times.

That means 3 hours in the morning and 3 hours in the evening.

That leaves 18 hours for gas-guzzling cars freedom to pollute the rest of the time - usually with only one person in them.

Has Edinburgh heard of "car-pooling" yet or is that a concept so bizarre and futuristic that it is not even worth considering?.

#47 Son of Gramasci has an open mind and like-minded citizens of Edinburgh may just be the saviours of many of your city's woes.

For God's sake, open your mind and learn from the successes and failures of others WORLDWIDE.

I may not pay Edinburgh taxes but by the terms of reference of this site myself and anybody else WORLDWIDE can post their views on most matters.

It would be in your own best interests to learn from the experiences of those NOT living in Edinburgh since we can stand back and take a more dispassionate and objective view of the problem(s) you are daily encountering without the impediment of self-interest.
97

tumshie heid,

27/11/2008 15:43:44
You're right Krishna I don't understand why you are getting so het up with people disagreeing with you.