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New Forth bridge 'may be delayed' by funding problems



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Published Date: 06 June 2008
THE new Forth bridge could be delayed by problems with the way the Scottish Government plans to fund it, opposition politicians claimed yesterday.
The concerns were raised in a debate on the SNP's proposed Scottish Futures Trust, which it plans to use to fund infrastructure projects.

Labour and Liberal Democrat MSPs warned the delay over setting up the trust, and confusion over how to rai
se private finance, could mean the £4.2 billion project would miss its 2013 deadline.

But John Swinney, the finance secretary, insisted he would bring a statement forward by the end of the year on financing the bridge. And he claimed he had brought certainty to the project after "years of dithering" by Liberal Democrat ministers.

Iain Gray, Labour's finance spokesman, said he remembered when cars had to cross the Forth in small ferries, adding: "If we have to wait much longer, there will be queues of car drivers waiting to catch ferries again."

A Liberal Democrat motion to force the Scottish Government to bring forward its financing plans was defeated.

Liam McArthur, the Liberal Democrats' finance spokesman, said Mr Swinney did not know how to pay for the bridge. He said this was because the finance secretary's preferred funding method of not-for-profit distribution (NPD) was as expensive as public-private partnerships, and a plan to issue "bridge bonds" was dropped because it was illegal.

His argument has been backed by the Green Party, which claims to have one estimate that the bridge would cost £42 billion under a 30-year NPD contract.





The full article contains 268 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 05 June 2008 9:43 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Forth Bridges
 
1

,

06/06/2008 00:13:30
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2

Yankee girl,

USA 06/06/2008 00:38:12
Maybe they should have kept the toll....
3

,

06/06/2008 00:38:39
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4

,

06/06/2008 00:40:16
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5

truthsleuth,

06/06/2008 00:44:23
The toll should have been kept and lorries (the vehicles that damage the bridge) set via bridges further to the east or made to pay tolls that reflected the damage they do.

The second Forth bridge is naught but a waste of money that could have been spent on public transport and rail modernisation.
6

A Better Way,

Edinburgh 06/06/2008 01:06:40
Local Councils can raise finance, yet the Scottish Government do not have the right to do the same. And the Unionists traitors on these forums still support their British Masters. It is common practice throughout the World for elected Governments to have the power to raise finance for vital projects like the Bridge, yet we the trained pets cant do it, even though we signed an agreement to join in union as two individual Nations. Not to worry, we saved the UK from going bankrupt in the seventies with Scottish Oil. Only to be lied to about our Oil, have Maggie Thatcher sign over our fishing grounds to Europe, be given less than 10 billion pocketmoney a year to run an entire nation, when we are the richest country in Europe. Call me daft but am I missing something here. Are the Scottish Nation mentally challenge. Thats the same as the guy who comes up and asks for a loan of 10 quid when the other guy only has a fiver. But thats alright he will get the rest on friday ?.

Give us a break and get off your knees and try backing your own kind for a change. They certainly arent as bad as Brown and his pack of Morons, and will put us back on our feet with our head held higher than it has been for 300 years.
7

firhill,

06/06/2008 06:34:23
#6- Lovely Braveheart speech!

Of course the SNP government knew the new crossing would have to be tolled in future to pay the costs, it's just they don't want to be exposed for their deceit and hypocrisy in removing the tolls now at great cost and then putting them back later.

They have no other viable route to fund the private sector finance needed to pay for the new bridge.
8

Iain green,

Haddington 06/06/2008 07:18:38
Typical Peev headline - a scare story from Labour put in trying to masquerade as a government statement.
As for Gray - good grief. Ferries? What is this clot talking about?
9

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/06/2008 07:45:54
Interestingly the nationalist posters don't make any substantive points about the story. They prefer to stay in their comfort zone and attack the publication, other parties and of course accuse anybody who doesn't share their outlandish views of being traitors.
The real point of the story is that once again the SNP's good ship Rhetoric has been dashed on the rocks of reality. There is a big difference in being glib and snorting your derision from the sidelines and actually being responsible for taking difficult and unpopular but necessary decisions. The hapless Mr Swinney is beginning to realise this as SNP policy after SNP policy unravels in the full glare of public scrutiny.
10

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 06/06/2008 07:46:33
#5. Will you and others want to pay for the additional cost to the hauliers for your food - no. Can it be taken by rail - no. Will supermarkets fund the haulier for fuel - no.

SNP should not have rubber stamped the trams, money is required for A9 (more deaths again yesterday) and the bridge replacement.
11

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 06/06/2008 07:46:36
#5. Will you and others want to pay for the additional cost to the hauliers for your food - no. Can it be taken by rail - no. Will supermarkets fund the haulier for fuel - no.

SNP should not have rubber stamped the trams, money is required for A9 (more deaths again yesterday) and the bridge replacement.
12

Melly,

Sussex 06/06/2008 08:12:32
How can you write a scare story around something that MAY happen or COULD happen. Was David Maddox short of his daily anti SNP story again?
13

Roy,

06/06/2008 08:12:34
Why no comments on the pathetic MacDonnell story?

Scotland's Prime Minsiter used a car for TWO short journeys on TWO occasions in the middle of winter.

Wow!!! Shock! Horror! Helpmaboab...
14

Lady inwaiting,

Glenrothes 06/06/2008 08:30:12
Where is the HOVERCRAFT???????
15

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/06/2008 08:31:49
13
Scotland's prime minister is Mr Gordon Brown. Do you mean our first minister, Mr Salmond, who admittedly has delusions of grandeur?
16

Mcsnagpile,

06/06/2008 08:37:29

This is just a Fife to Edinburgh commuter problem. It is just as easy to take the Stirling motorway if you are travelling to Dundee, Aberdeen or Perth. In fact when there is snow or high winds, the Stirling motorway is the automatic choice. A small tunnel where the river narrows near to Kincardine would be more cost effective. This would also give people from the Dunfermline area a chance to go via the Edinburgh bypass without hitting the Forth rd/Crammond go-slo.
17

Jock 1O7,

06/06/2008 08:49:24
13 Roy

Yes - it's almost as though they were embarrassed to have published it.

Going on foot, the journeys would have been about half the distance, compared with driving, because of the traffic controls. This might suggest he's lazy, but it's still a non-story.
18

Jock 1O7,

06/06/2008 08:57:56
Oh, and on this story -

They probably should have kept the tolls, which would help pay for current Fife/Lothian access and any new access.
19

brownlie,

06/06/2008 09:33:24
9 Grahamski

I missed this morning's briefing. What is our unionist position on the bridge. I think we should be tolled.
20

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/06/2008 09:40:04
19.
HQ say to carry on regardless. Remember to get Iraq in as quickly as possible, we don't want any more chat about SNP incompetence. Again Alex salutes your indefatigability. He's worried that you've been under cover for so long that you might go native.
I've assured him you're as proud a member of the lunatic fringe as the day you joined.
Forward to victory, brother Pict Warrior
from your controller
Macwilliam Macwallace
ps You're request to use the name Macalex Macsalmond as a nom d'independence has unfortunately been denied.
Macrobert Macbruce is still available....
21

Miss H,

06/06/2008 09:47:46
9 It's not a substantive story. People can read the debate for themselves if they have any interest in the subject, which will weed out the inaccuracies in the story itself. Starting with the fact that it was an SNP motion not a Liberal Democrat motion.

It is clearer than ever that Labour are positioning themselves as the champions of PFI. Completely nuts and a further example of the electoral suicide pact they appear to have entered into.



22

brownlie,

06/06/2008 09:49:55
20

Your conversion to nationalism has not gone down well in unionist circles.

Jackie was jumping up and down with rage - this was registered as 7.2. on the Richter Scale - as you have single-handedly vanquished the nats with your unassailable logic.

Wendy was hiding behind the sofa and Lord George was incoherent - no change there then.

We were instructed not to mention the Iraqi war in case Tony has a crisis of conscience - some hope!!
23

aljok.23,

The World 06/06/2008 09:51:59
Surely we need a tunnel and a bridge. I'll pay for it as soon as I've saved up enough. Could do with a hand with that. Best not to let the UK government know cos they'll just spend it on their house. How do we stop them from taking our pot?
24

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/06/2008 10:14:49
23
My conversion? I've been a nationalist since those heady days of Chris Grieve flirting with fascism!
Take a leaf out of Bob's book, he's got no problem with using the war to make some point about a crossing on the Forth.
Step it up, you know using the deaths of thousands of Iraqis helped win us our election.
Forward to freedom!
your controller,
Macwilliam Macwallace
25

roger the dodger,

tayport 06/06/2008 11:20:25
As some-one who would be classed just now as a "don't know" as far as the referendum is concerned I do not post very often on here.

I do however keep an eye on this site to see which way the wind is blowing.

It appears to me that the Nationalist posters seem to have more of a sense of humour when posting than those who support Lab.Lib or Tory apart from possibly Kimba who must be posting tongue in cheek.

The forum is less entertaining since Highland MIghty/AM2/Alfred Newman and Union is Best (my favourite poster) seem to make only fleeting appearances.

It seems that posters such as Grahamski/Rules but no ruler/kimba/cidermania do not realise that the poster Brownlee (is he a hack?) follows them around slaughtering them by taking the mickey and they fall for it all the time.

As far as the article is concerned it appears that the SNP have a time-table which does not coincide with the oppositions' timetable and I feel it would be foolish for them to take it.

On the other hand in order to convince the undecided they will have to show that they are capable of providing long-term solutions to Scottish problems in order for me, and thousands like me, to vote for independence

We will have to wait and see but I hope that the other parties do not vote against things for the good of Scotland out of spite and malice.

26

geekpie,

forfar 06/06/2008 11:27:03
Maybe they should have kept the toll rather than encouraging long-distance commuting from Fife.
27

morris,

edinburgh 06/06/2008 11:53:15
5
The only bridge to the east is a rail bridge?
Im still trying to work out what you are suggesting here!Any bridge would have to be located upstream,not downstream and the local topography should tell us that.The length of crossing increases substantially and with it costs and problems I would have thought. The only possibilities are a bridge where its proposed or my own preference which was a tunnel.
How it is financed is a matter for the Scottish government to announce or amend. Until they do then NOTHING HAS CHANGED apart form the Unionists election prospects!

This is nothing more than speculation form Unionist politicians desperate to scaremonger since they cannot use the truth anymore.
Until the Scottish government announces anything then this has little if any value,and is designed to try and reverse the popularity of the New Labour and Liberal Parties in Scotland,which you may have noticed would both be crushed according to the most recent opinion poll.
28

,

06/06/2008 12:34:21
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29

democracy,

Scottish Borders 06/06/2008 12:46:55
We just use other articles to make a point of not being able to remark on other articles.
I mean, it's blatantly obvious when HAMISH MACDONELL
writes his biased Unionist remarks on the SNP Government and allows no response, in the so called SCOTSMAN (ha,ha,ha.)All this amounts to is, ONE persons opinion among MILLIONS!!
30

Neil,

Glasgow 06/06/2008 12:55:07
We know that it is possible to cut an equivalent tunnel for £40 million rather than this £4,200 million.

I have yet to see any spokesman for any Holyrood Party explaining why not. Cui bono.
31

gotalottosay,

06/06/2008 13:01:44
why are we not that surprised, it was a done deal that this would be reported on before long. Just get the finger out and get on with it, why do our scottish ministers have to drag their heels over this and several other important issues, fingers out, toot sweet boys and girls, that's why we voted for you, we thought you could make a difference (OH ME OF LITTLE FAITH!!)
32

Vincent-W,

06/06/2008 13:05:35
I look to newspapers to provide objective reports for me to make an informed opinion.

Sadly day after day we get nothing but sensationalist biased reports in the Scotsman. Swiftly followed by a litany of ignorant posts on these sites.

But I suppose that in the absence of objective reporting the readership will be largely ignorant...................
33

gotalottosay,

06/06/2008 13:14:12
#35 do you mean that some of that stuff that has been reported might not be correct, surely not!!
34

Geomac 1,

Scotland 06/06/2008 13:37:37
If the SNP government can't pay for the new Forth road bridge, how are they going to pay for this? Tolls??
35

Annoyingboi,

Edinburgh 06/06/2008 13:42:16
Forth Bridge is delayed but the trams press ahead!Cancel the trams now!
36

Build me a tunnel,

, Preferably Upstream 06/06/2008 13:44:26
#13 There's a car with the registration SO1 (which is the former Scottish Office official car). Is this now used by our First Minister, 'cos I keep seeing it in South Queensferry - is Alex checking-up on the progress or otherwise to ensure his "Iconic" structure is going to plan ? Or is it simply the case that someone's getting to use it as a "pool" car.....

Immersed Tunnel is the way forward (and further upstream if you please....)
37

Grahamski,

06/06/2008 15:04:37
29
From the Siol nan Gaidheal (sounds familiar, eh) website:
'MacDiarmid’s flirtation with Fascism can be forgiven..'
Maybe by Scots fascists it can be forgiven but not by any decent person, I would suggest.
I'm not full of anti-Scottish hate I'm full of contempt for the narrow-minded bigots who would suggest that the the SNP and the Scottish people are synonymous.
The only character I would stain is the character of somebody who would label another a traitor or a coward because they didn't share their own narrow political perspectives.
Your attempts to portray attacks on the SNP as attacks on Scotland as a whole are as laughable as they are misguided.
38

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/06/2008 15:13:22
26
Har har
As a long time reader of these boards but first time poster I'd like to point out that I am an undecided voter and as a neutral I'd just like to say this: Ain't that Alex Salmond doing a great job?
Aye, right.
39

Richard,

West Lothian 06/06/2008 16:05:17
Well said Jackie Priest,

That'll put Grahamski's (the faux socialist)gas at a peep!

Arrogant, ignorant and uninformed as he is.
40

pwd,

Borders 06/06/2008 16:49:51
*44
Oh Dear!
41

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/06/2008 16:55:21
42
There the nats go again, I accuse the nats of hijacking everything from our culture to our history and you try and portray me as attacking our culture and history. I don't.
Your arrogance in assuming that the SNP alone represents Scotland is typical and just a little wearing.
So for the last time, I mock the pseudo-gaels and made up Picts of the independence movement. Their skewed view of Scotland's history and attempts to portray us as victims shames us all.
So stick that in yer tartan pipe an smoke it; awa an greet on yer big tartan pillae, ya lobby dosser, ye...
42

truthsleuth,

06/06/2008 17:09:01
#10 GrahamH

Lets be quite clear Heavy Lorries do NOT PAY THEIR FULL ROAD COSTS ie WE PAY through taxes to subsidise them and if they were made to pay full costs
based on the costs for using the M6 relief road the cost to lorries using the proposed white ellephant bridge each lorry would pay about £80.

Similarly If Roads were tolled at an appropriate rate then 50% or more goods trafic would dissappear off them.

The truth is the lorry uses roads built for them but paid for by the motorist and taxpayer.

This is called 'externalising your costs'.
Note the lorries parked up overnight in every lay by and at the road side when they should be in lorry parks paying £15 per night.
Or Overlaoded more than 10%
or Speeding down the single carriageway roads and dual/m ways.

Now most road hauliers are 'legitimate' but there is a large enough fringe who flaut the laws.

It is the flexibility of road transport to break the law that makes it flexible.


43

Neil,

Glasgow 06/06/2008 17:21:32
Jackie 3 long posts on such a point shows how hysterical you (& the lunatic wing of the Nats generally) are to any suggestion that all truth does not lie with you.

Wallace is a great national hero. He was also, by modern standards, a thug, whom you would not wish to meet down a dark ally. Mature people can recognise heroes without having to turn them into plaster saints.
44

roger the dodger,

tayport 06/06/2008 17:25:32
41 Grahamski Falkirk

If you read my posting there is no word saying that Alex Salmond, who I did not mention, was doing a good job.

I said that they should be allowed to govern without petty point scoring which I would wish for any party which was democratically elected.

If you don't read other people's posts and take their point of view into consideration then it would be fair to say that is the reason you get slagged.

You cannot blame me then for not putting posts more often.
45

Mike555,

06/06/2008 17:31:01
The Government should open up the debate on building a very cost effective tunnel under the Forth.

Nobody has explained to me why a bridge that will close often due to weather, will cost twice as much and will start rusting from day one is the preferred option.

I just cannot understand why the tunnel option has not been reopened and looked at again this time by qualified people and not greedy politicians.
46

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/06/2008 17:45:11
54
Jackie,
I'm ridiculing you and your mates who have as much understanding of history that Ladybird books allow. I am Scottish and proud of it. I see being part of the UK as the best option for me and my fellow Scots.
I treat my Scottishness every bit as seriously as you. The difference is that I don't think Braveheart was a documentary.
Now enough of your tartan-wrapped ranting, away and get rid of that chip on your shoulder and accept that even died in the wool, true blue tories can be every bit as Scottish as you...
47

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/06/2008 17:47:43
52
Sorry if I have offended you. It was meant to be an affectionate ribbing of the cliched radio talkshow 'first time caller'. I promise not to be beastly to you again.
You should participate and don't let "£^$&s like me put you off....
48

Neil,

Glasgow 06/06/2008 17:57:53
"Do you equally despise Charlamaine, Balzac and the Gauls?"

Does finding Asterix funny count?
49

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/06/2008 20:01:54
60
Your meandering and unfocussed rants condemn you for the historical lightweight you truly are. You seem to think we can have Scottish history without British history. What a ludicrous and shallow understanding of our history you must have.
I really don't want to hear your nursery school attempts at historical perspective. You're the worst kind of ill-informed, ill-mannered boorish bully who haunt boards like these stinking them out with your ignorance.
I strongly advise you to go to your local library on Monday and read a history of Scotland which isn't tainted with the 'we wuz robbed' polemic which seems to be to your taste.
In the meantime why not stay of these boards - didn't you mention something about a pub?
50

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 06/06/2008 20:11:26
Play up, chaps. Brown and Darling are doing the last innings for New Labour. Do incoming team Cameron and his bankers have new policies? No. None. None whatsoever.

Scottish troops will be deployed in Afghanistan till the next generation or the end of time (same idea) as decreed by his Toniness. Gear supplied will be as cheap and shoddy as available by the arms and drugs dealers running this show.

No money (well as little as poss) will be spent on scottish infrastucture north of Inverness, Perth, Embra, Gretna (delete wherever). Their crappy railway stock, roads and ferries can be patched up till the next generation or the end of time (who cares?)

Anything and everything the SNP propose to improve the government of Scotland will be deemed "illegal".

Scottish fishermen will be resold again to Spain but maybe a few allowed to keep their boats and quotas.

The Department for Eliminating Farming and Rural Activites will introduce a new disease. More working farmers commit suicide. (who cares?)

Scotland will be designated a special EU site of neo-feudalism where the only allowed economic activities will be disposal of toxic waste (alot of money in this) and chicken farming (vast sheds of them).

This is the year of the rat as so demonically and scottishly expounded by Harry Harrison.

Whose fiction are you living in?
51

,

06/06/2008 20:19:11
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52

,

06/06/2008 20:20:04
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53

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/06/2008 20:27:09
63/64
More ill-informed and petty lunacy from our very own lunatic fringe. Nats about to be thrashed, we salute you...
barred from the Herald? Oooooooooh you are awful ha ha ha

 

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