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400-year-old Scots ready to reveal their battle secrets



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Published Date: 02 August 2007
A MASS grave of soldiers, including Scots, slaughtered during Europe's bloody Thirty Years War is yielding up valuable information on how they had lived.
Skeletons of more than 100 men who fought in the Battle of Wittstock near Berlin in 1636 were discovered by workmen excavating a sandpit.

Anthropologists say the remains offer a fascinating insight into the health of Europeans nearly 400 years ag
o.

Superficially, the bodies bear all the hallmarks of terrible fighting: shoulder blades smashed by axes; spines run through with swords and skulls pierced by musket balls.

They died in the Battle of Wittstock on 4 October, 1636, when a Protestant army of 16,000 Swedes beat a force of 22,000 from the Catholic alliance of the Holy Roman Empire and Saxony. Some 6,000 men died in the fighting.

Soldiers from several nations fought at Wittstock, including hundreds from Scotland, the German states and Swedes. Sweden was then a magnet for Scottish noblemen, who became civil servants and formed the backbone of the army's officer corps. James King, born on Warbester Hoy in the Orkney Islands, commanded the entire left wing of the Swedish army at the battle.

Franz Schopper, the director of the Brandenburg Monument Preservation Office, said: "We believe there are bodies in there from Scotland, Sweden and the Danube basin, from initial dental examinations."

The rarity of such graves seems astonishing, given the hundreds of battles that shaped Europe's blood-drenched history. But this is one of only four mass, battle graves from more than 200 years ago that have been discovered.

Five specialists are sifting through the pit. Antje Grothe, the archaeologist in charge of the exhumations, said: "We can get exciting insights into the lives of the soldiers.

"For example, we can find out things about the men's general health from their tooth decay. At least three bodies show signs of syphilis. And we can check the bones for disease and examine the impact on the bodies of the strains of the soldiers' life: carrying heavy weapons; shoving cannon; hauling baggage trains."

Most of the corpses were stripped before being buried and the only evidence of their undergarments remains in the form of metal hooks and loops, she said. "Everything that was usable in any way was taken off them - shoes, weapons, upper clothing." The archaeologists are hopeful that coins and other small personal effects may be found in the soil.

Some metal fragments not identifiable with Swedish or Prussian garb leads the archaeologists to think that some of the soldiers were foreigners. The remains are of men aged between 20 and 40.

Some 40,000 individuals took part in the battle and experts reckon the remains of 7,000 are scattered around.

In the long term, DNA analysis may be carried out on some remains.



The full article contains 477 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 01 August 2007 9:16 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Scullion,

Canada 02/08/2007 00:41:48

I wouldn't be surprised if one of my relatives fought here; I come from a long line of front line cannon fodder. I'm oddly glad I was born when I was-during the Cold War when everyone was on the front line.

2

The Fly Fifer,

fife 02/08/2007 00:59:54

tell me, when is the cut off point for digging up people? t

3

Navvy,

02/08/2007 01:07:10

#1 - why is it that people on the western side of the atlantic felt that they were under the shadow of the bomb while those in UK did not?

4

The Daleks,

02/08/2007 02:03:53

Speak for yourself #3.

5

GalacticCannibal,

02/08/2007 04:03:23

3. Navvy

Dude I am surprised you did not understand that.


Its know as child conditioning American style.

A bit like the children in China getting indoctrinated by their Communist CCP.

Dragonhead would know all about that, ask him or her.

In America our children are indoctrinated ever school day by reciting "The Pledge of Allegiance"

It is a corrupted version of the true pledge. But it does the trick .

Happy Haggis Day

GC

6

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 02/08/2007 06:52:46

Protestant army of 16,000 Swedes beat a force of 22,000 from the Catholic alliance of the Holy Roman Empire

Jesus! Didn't know the Old Firm Games went THAT far back!!

7

eddylongshanks,

york 02/08/2007 07:03:41

Nothing changes up north eh Dave ?

8

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 02/08/2007 07:23:56

Up north? Eh? North of where? Sorry, I find the "up north" saying a bit ambiguous.

9

eddylongshanks,

york 02/08/2007 07:50:09

sorry Dave, as the south and south east is so often quoted on these threads I thought the north when taken in the context of your reference to the "Old Firm Games" as it does since I referred to your previous post by your name, would be self explanatory.

10

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 02/08/2007 08:01:05

Oh right, I see. It's just that Glasgow (where the Old Frim is) is considered south of here. Got you now.

11

Everything you do is a balloön,

02/08/2007 08:03:18

And the scottish spin on the news continues.

Hundreds of scots ? Pish.

In the long term, DNA analysis may be carried out on some remains.

12

Everything you do is a balloön,

02/08/2007 08:03:29

And the scottish spin on the news continues.

Hundreds of scots ? Pish.

"In the long term, DNA analysis may be carried out on some remains"

13

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 02/08/2007 08:06:44

And when we visit the mainland, we say we're going to Scotland. Just wee perochial differences can confuse, eh Eddy?

14

Everything you do is a balloön,

02/08/2007 08:19:36

I take it back, Spiegel report says that Scots fought in the battle also.

15

eddylongshanks,

york 02/08/2007 08:28:59

thats right Dave, perochialism has caused many issues over the years.

16

Publius,

London 02/08/2007 08:39:26

#12, #13
On this occasion the Scottish spin may be justified. Scottish soldiers did play a big part in the thirty years war. Experienced Scottish soldiers returning to home (and to England) played a key part in the civil wars that began with the First Bishops' War in 1638 and lasted until the Battle of Dunbar in 1650. In the early years most of the best officers on all sides were Scots including David Leslie who learned the skills of warfare in Germany.

17

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 02/08/2007 08:46:52

Or Eddy, it's peoples inability to recognise other peoples/nations cultural differences.

What we have is the Scots being accused of perochialism where in actual fact, all we are doing is displaying cultural differences that other people are either ignorant of, or afraid of. These cultural differences work on several levels, including internally with regards Gaels versus Scots versus Picts versus Saxons etc.

18

eddylongshanks,

york 02/08/2007 09:06:04

You're right of course Dave, I agree completely - my first memories being inter school rivalry or even the kids from the "next street" I'm a big fan of debate and education these days.

19

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 02/08/2007 09:08:17

Me too albeit I am prone to childish outbursts but it's something I recognise and work on.

It's good to talk, eh?

20

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 02/08/2007 09:22:29

#6-10, 15-19 What the hell's this reasoned debate and conversation?

Surely not on a Scotsman forum?

No doubt it'll resort to name calling soon enough.

21

eddylongshanks,

york 02/08/2007 09:24:12

Indeed Dave, me likewise, nothing wrong with a little fire in your belly though, and it makes these threads quite fun really - I suspect most of it is lighthearted though with a serious edge - my name for instance was to see how many actually recognised any significance and how many would be peeved about someone who died 700 years ago this year. Thats the childish bit !
Back to the action when a juicy story comes along then?!

22

Everything you do is a balloön,

02/08/2007 09:27:02

Nicks a daft sponge.

23

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 02/08/2007 09:54:59

Of course Eddy! It's all good and look forward to sword crossing in the very near future! ;-)

24

scotleag,

02/08/2007 10:14:24

Number Six "Protestant army of 16,000 Swedes beat a force of 22,000 from the Catholic alliance of the Holy Roman Empire"

You omitted the words "and Saxony" from the original report. Saxony was 99% Lutheran. The Thirty Years War was a lot more complex than often thought. Catholic France was a prominent opponent of the Holy Roman Empire, just as at the end of the 17th century King Billy and the Pope were on the same side against the French.

Not that the religious numpties of the OF will give a monkey's. Wouldn't want the facts to get in the way of over a century of bigotry

25

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 02/08/2007 10:18:42

So I did scotleag. Thanks for pointing that out, good facts you have there.

26

Everything you do is a balloön,

02/08/2007 11:15:10

King "Billy" is buried just round the corner from my house and was shot about 200 yards up the road.

Needless to say , there are no hordes of Rangers Pilgrims over the summer as they are bilsfully unaware of history.

27

Spoot,

Third rock pool on the left 02/08/2007 11:41:47

Credit where it's due - this is a reasonably well presented article, and the historical content seems solid, for a change. Let's hope that it sets a precedent for the Scotsman's coverage of history.

28

Everything you do is a balloön,

02/08/2007 12:55:33

true spoot. I'd like to see more coverage of local, and foriegn history. Its non depressing news and sholud be given higher priority!

29

Fankle,

Scotland 02/08/2007 13:46:44

Jim Miller's just published a book on this very subject called Swords for Hire - all about Scots fighting, essentially, as mercenaries. Go to http://www.birlinn.co.uk/book/details/Swords-for-Hire-978... for more info.

30

puddlejump,

canada 02/08/2007 14:14:17

So does this mean that Scottish soldiers used HOOKS to keep their underpants hoisted?

31

Everything you do is a balloön,

02/08/2007 14:45:53
32

Spoot,

Third rock pool on the left 02/08/2007 15:41:09

#29
Thanks, Fankle (or should that be thankle, Fankle?). Full marks to Birlinn for yet again filling a gap in the range of books on Scottish history.

33

Calum Crubag,

02/08/2007 16:19:39

#17 - thought Gaels and Scots were the same thing. Bit like saying Irish and Irish, Welsh and Welsh?

34

Calum Crubag,

02/08/2007 16:21:09

#26 - Rangers fans unaware of history. This must be a joke....?

Are they also unaware of churches? Or that Proddies and Papes use the same book of Arabic folklore?

35

Spoot,

Third rock pool on the left 02/08/2007 17:12:16

#33
You're some way behind recent developments in DNA typing - not all Scots are Gaels, and not all Gaels are Scots.

36

Suze,

NW coast USA 03/08/2007 00:38:43

Let's see now... We're all on a Scottish-interest website, called heritage.scotsman, hosted by "The Scotsman" and some of us think it's strange the text is slanted toward Scots?

Now that's daft...

What should we be seeing here, data on the Lithuanian casualties?


 

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