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Scotland's Whirling Goddess or the Holy Grail?



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Published Date: 24 August 2006
STARING into the terrifying thunderous tumult of the Corryvreckan whirlpool, it's easy to see why its sheer primal energy has fascinated people for centuries.
Now Edinburgh folklorist Stuart McHardy has suggested a startling new theory - that the awe-inspiring natural vortex between the islands of Scarba and Jura in Argyll and Bute was the true origin of the Holy Grail.

At its wildest, some say the whirlpool forms a spectacular swirling cauldron 300 feet wide and 100 feet deep. The cause is hidden beneath the waves – a giant rock pinnacle rising from the depths to within 95 feet of the surface. Water on the seabed is forced upwards when it hits the submerged rock, causing huge waves. The noise can keep the neighbours awake up to 20 miles away.

McHardy believes that the Corryvreckan was, for pre-Christian Picts, a "Mother Goddess" - the Mother of All Fertility Symbols.

"These ancient pagan tribes saw the whirlpool as a giant cauldron - or Grail - of rebirth," he says. "They believed it was the womb of all creation and could even awaken dead warriors. It was literally their Holy Grail."

In his new book On the Trail of the Holy Grail, McHardy writes that incoming Christian monks tried to erase all trace of this ancient way of thinking. They rewrote what they saw as dangerous pagan beliefs, downplaying the regenerative power of femininity, promoting the idea of a single, male God and disguised the religious significance of the whirlpool.

The final blow to the Old Religion is thought to have come from the legendary warrior Arthur, the hammer of the Picts.Historian of the Clan Arthur, Hugh McArthur, believes a 10th century Welsh poem contains cryptic clues that reveal the Corryvreckan's central role in early stories about the Holy Grail. Preiddeu Annwn (The Spoils of Annwfn) describes how King Arthur and three boatloads of warriors sail to the Welsh Otherworld to steal a magical "cauldron of inspiration". Arthur's boats pass through the "gates of Hell" to Caer Sidi (the Fortress of the Fairies) but only seven of his force survive.

McArthur writes: "It is this successful but costly raid on the most unassailable fortress in Britain that made Arthur the living legend that he is today. Arthur overcame the challenge, he sailed over the dragon (whirlpool) to Hell's gate, assailed the mountain, slaughtered the pagans and returned triumphant with the hallowed pagan treasures, leaving an ancient religion reeling from a fatal blow."

The "fairies", McArthur suggests, were probably nothing more than the small, painted Pictish warriors who were early settlers on Scarba. In Welsh, "d" sounds "th", making Sidi similar to the Scottish Gaelic sìth (fairies). Intriguingly, maps do show a Blàr nan Sìth (Battlefield of the Fairies) on Scarba's north-east coast.

Even more interestingly, Admiralty charts show that just to the east of the whirlpool the seabed drops away sharply, descending to a narrow pit nearly 700 feet deep. Locals have long known this as "Hell's gate". Horror tales abound of sailors being swept away, sucked under and then forced down into the murky depths by the fast flowing undersea currents.

The eighth-century Welsh monk Nennius, in The History of the Britons, wrote that King Arthur's eighth battle took place at castello Guinnion where the hero carried the image of the Virgin Mary on his shield. Scholars have long been unable to agree on a real-life location for Guinnion, but it could be from an Old Welsh word meaning holy ones. Castello Guinnion would then translate as fortress of the holy ones.

More reading

Certainly, if the Picts had sacred treasures to protect, it would have made sense to secure them in the safest spot they could find. The whirlpool provides a formidable natural defence. Perhaps the most sacred site of the Old Religion was a temple for priests or priestesses, protected by the Whirling Goddess?

Three hundred yards north of the Corryvreckan is Camas nam Bàirneach, a small bay. A few caves nestle in the cliffs high above. This tiny patch of white sand provides the only landing spot on the rugged south-west coast. At the base of the cliff, on a narrow ledge is an abandoned settlement: five square or rectangular buildings obscured by overgrown heather. With no land nearby for growing crops or raising animals, it could not have been a permanent settlement and was probably a seasonal site for people hunting birds, long an important part of islanders' diets.

Stuart McHardy thinks he has discovered the true purpose of this place:

"In the distant past this may have been the site of a temple supplied by boat. Only an in-depth archaeological excavation would reveal the truth, and I'm looking into the possibility of that being done. Perhaps we can find out more about how our far-off ancestors saw their world and hopefully learn from them."

If McHardy's theory is correct, the Holy Grail grew from a truly ancient physical source located in Scotland – a source as dynamic and awesome today as it was in prehistory when humans first encountered it. Centuries of myth-making transformed the Grail into a mystical chalice signifying many things – fertility, enlightenment, religious understanding, but always a quest in which the search is as important as the result.




The full article contains 939 words and appears in scotsman.com newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 30 November 2006 11:39 AM
  • Source: scotsman.com
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Rosslyn Chapel
 
1

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 24/08/2006 08:47:43

It's ridiculous that everybody is jumping on the Holy Grail/Da Vinci Code bandwagon. Anything to lure a few more tourists with fanciful tales of legends and myths.

However, a little gem, that nobody seems to know about, is the beautiful town of Methil and the legend of Mary from Methilhill. I won't go into details as it would spoil the tourists fun in uncovering the story.

More details can be found at New Bayview Stadium in Methil.

2

.,

24/08/2006 09:11:03

I believe it's Mary fae Maryhill.
I'd heard she's got legs like a spider.

3

Anna,

Cambridgeshire 24/08/2006 09:49:40

The Corryvrekan Whirlpool - is that the one that was featured in the BBC natural world series which travelled around the British Isles last year? I'd never heard of it until I saw that programme.

I can't see what it has to do with the Holy Grail though - mind you thats no reason not to market it as a Holy Grail site and cash in on the interest created by the DaVinci Code.

4

Marie Antoinette,

24/08/2006 10:06:53

Utter Nonsense.

5

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 24/08/2006 11:03:19

Anon,
Maryhill, Methilhill. I suppose through time the legend has become blurred.

6

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 24/08/2006 11:21:22

Anon,

A popular folk song has been sung for years in East Fife about Mary fae Methillhill, so I think there is tangible evidence to state that she did indeed come from this area.

I suppose many areas will lay claim to Mary, a bit like Sir William Wallace's birthplace and Jesus' resurrection.

7

Anna,

Cambridgeshire 24/08/2006 13:22:57

AJ

Is Mary fae Methillhill supposed to be a vision of the Virgin Mary like they claim at Lourdes? If not who is Mary?

8

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 24/08/2006 14:07:49

Hullo Anna

Thanks for sticking up for me last night, that Texan was sure a pesky varmint!

Mary fae Methilhill was more of a Mary Magdalene character, but a legend none the less. The song lyrics suggest she enjoyed carnal pleasures.

I like the Lourdes idea, it could be the boost the Methil area needs. People could come and pray at the back of bus shelters and meditate in the local hayloft.

9

Anna,

Cambridgeshire 24/08/2006 14:17:58

Hi AJ

No probs about the Texan - I just don't think they get the sense of humour sometimes. If its a serious topic - they don't seem to realise that people like to take the p... out of it just for a laugh!!

Re: the Methilhill Mary vision thing - what you need is to discover a stream or some other life giving thing there. Get a statue set up and have someone say that they've seen it cry or drip oil or milk or some such liquid and its a licence to print money! There are more hotels in Lourdes than anywhere else in France except Paris - not to mention all the tacky souvenier shops. It's a huge money spinner - get the PR right and Methilhill could be the same!

10

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 24/08/2006 14:41:38

Yup Anna I like it, although I shudder to think what liquid might drip out of a statue of Mary!!!!

Anna, tell me was that taking it too far?

11

Anna,

Cambridgeshire 24/08/2006 15:00:35

AJ @ 10

Possibly - but heyho we'll just gloss over that bit - if it doesn't quite fit the PR machine!!

12

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 24/08/2006 15:06:59

The internationally renowned scultor David Mach is a local, as well as Jack Vettriano, maybe I'll get them to knock something up and get the ball rolling.

Interestingly, Jack was brought up in Methilhill itself, so he will be well aware of the legend. Indeed some of his pictures are of risque wumin.

Could be a winner Anna, but it might attract lots of Japanese businessmen!

13

Anna,

Cambridgeshire 24/08/2006 15:18:34

Sounds great - see if you can get them to tie it in with this whirlpool thing and the Holy Grail/Da Vinci Code stuff and you're onto a sure fire winner.

The Holy Grail seems to have been looked for everywhere else in the world - so you might as well start a rumour about it being in Methilhill as well. Any spooky old chapels there or connections with the Templars? If you can get the Templars involved - it'll be even more plausible and financially rewarding! Failing the Templar involvement - how about other Secret Societies with strange ritualistic behaviour and a history of being a bit wierd in the area ......... ?!

14

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 24/08/2006 15:45:28

Hmmmmm........Anna, there are some strange phenomena in Methilhill - things like single girls falling pregnant when they reach a certain age, cars going missing and only to found later on fire!!
There may indeed be powers at work.

Societies? could be the Douglas Arms darts team - almost impossible for an outsider to get into!

15

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 25/08/2006 09:18:42

Anna,

Oops, that is my name - AJ is my initials.

This Mary thing could take off. I can pinpoint various location where she did her 'work' and create a tour around the village. Ancient artefacts, such as discarded knickers, could be displayed in a visitor centre.

Yes Anna, you can get a cut of the action, nae problemo!

16

Anna,

Cambridgeshire 25/08/2006 10:24:13

Thanks AJ

I'll do your PR for you and advertise it down here. Mind you, if the independence thing happens - then you'll have to get the visas, for the pilgrims, sorted out at your end!!

17

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 25/08/2006 10:40:34

Anna,
I think I'm going to be too busy to set this up - maybe later when my wee lassie starts school. It's getting too complicated.

But the job has been partly done - the masses are now aware of the legend!!

18

John,

california 25/08/2006 14:50:52

Hello,Anna, AJ seems I'm a bit late here, but am enjoying a belated laugh; wonderful, I can only hope to keep up with the wit!!!! Hope you both have a great day, and will chat later, perhaps.

19

Julie,

25/08/2006 15:00:32

Can you imagine the treasures sucked into that vortex and laid to rest in that narrow pit?

20

Houssine,

needjar@yahoo.fr 25/08/2006 17:21:15

The story of Graal is a fiction for adult.In this this story we have the combination of Celtic mythology,christian belief and animism.The Graal is a personification of the life and dead in a concept or if you prefers idea.In primitif societies the water is a source of life and power i belief in medieval period the christians shursh propose the blood of the Christ like a substance of the life.The water is a source of many legend in Arthurian legend we have a woman she live inside the water in a castel....

21

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 25/08/2006 22:41:55

Hi Melanie,
I'm afraid I can't indulge in my new addiction today, but I'll catch up sometime.

22

Kilted_kangaroo,

Australia 26/08/2006 12:14:04

here in Australia mary is recalled as 'sheila' from sydney.
An Aboriginal elder told of the oral myth that both Mary (jesus' mum) and Mary (jesus' lover) visited in a tall ship with some guy called Muhamed. Muhamed had been sent over to Australia, via Israel, for tampering with some sacred ball game

23

Kilted_kangaroo,

Australia 26/08/2006 12:16:57

As an addendum to my last information, Mary, Mary, Jesus and muhamed's ashes are being returned to Australia later this year by a team of gladiators dressed in white whereupon the ashes will remain in Australia.

24

John,

california 26/08/2006 12:21:01

Hi AJ, I was rather busy myself....I'm new to this as well, it is sort of an addiction though isn't it?? I love the practice of expressing/sharing ideas...Let me know when you're back round if you see me in another forum...perhaps Anna, too, then if things get too heated we can join back here for a respite and talk about holy grail tours and the music of the 1960's or something. hope all is well, give the wee one a hug...they grow up so fast!

25

John,

california 26/08/2006 12:22:55

thank you for the comic relief, a drum roll for you!!
; o )

26

John,

california 26/08/2006 12:24:05

comic relief as in gordon for #31 comment, not you AJ... :)

27

Anna,

Cambridgeshire 26/08/2006 12:30:21

That's great Gordon - we'll tie that in with the Mary fae Metihilhill thing and have a 'down under' pilgrimage as well!!

Hi - Melanie - I just popped over to that politics forum and I see that I'm being accused of being Marie Antionette now!! I'm sure MA is a man and Scottish - so can't be me as I don't fit either category.............

28

Kilted_kangaroo,

26/08/2006 12:35:25

Melanie......you are too kind. I feel a kindred spirit with you, being another colonial an' all. "tis nice for the humour to be read into the writing. I think I am a really funny bugga (australian for bugger) and laff at all my own jokes. I am a 40 year old black belted, beach volleyball playing, single father of two grown up children teacher who just loves a good laff.
Now, having said that.........I will have to reply to Aj and his freinds far more often as the audience just seems to be growing. have a ncie day :)

29

John,

california 26/08/2006 14:11:56

you too gordon!!

Did you see my comment in your defence, Anna?
I wonder how many there are that do tricky things like being several personas and argue amongst themselves to sort of control the forum...?

30

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 26/08/2006 22:10:24

Hi Melanie,

Glad the kids are having a treat - File Gumbo?

The several personas idea is pretty difficult to execute, but I reckon plenty of people do it. But they end up having conversations with themselves!!

The wee one is thriving and running her auld man ragged!

31

John,

california 26/08/2006 22:39:47

it's a recipe from Louisiana, my aunt lives there sends me wonderful Cajun/creole recipes....Anna was asking too...I'm hoping to get up a neutral website to post hellos off forum...I'm going into the wine consulting business, as if I don't already have too much to do...I'll most likely be including recipes on the page. I'm not sure what the rules are here for posting info...I set up por_la_mar@yahoo.com as a neutral e-mail site. At least then you can contact us when you're in the Santa Monica area again!! It's always nice to have contacts when you travel...we've lost contact with, but had an Aussie friend who would call out of the blue during his various walk-abouts...sometimes it was just a quick hello, or help, I'm stuck at the airport.

32

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 26/08/2006 22:48:07

Melanie,

My wife and I have few vices(we gave them up), but wine is certainly one of them and on a rather unhealthy scale.

The neutral website is a good idea, but like you I would be scared to give my own e-mail address, Anna and Wee Jimmy Krankie could catch up with me!

I don't know when we'll be through LA again, but thanks for the offer, I'll definitly keep it in mind.

33

Anna,

Cambridgeshire 26/08/2006 22:57:47

"The neutral website is a good idea, but like you I would be scared to give my own e-mail address, Anna and Wee Jimmy Krankie could catch up with me!"

AJ...........
You should be so lucky .................. to have Wee Jimmy Krankie chasing you that is!!

Hi Melanie, thanks for the defence let me know if you get your website thing set up!!

I was going to say something about Sean Connery on the other blog - but I can't think of anything to say so I won't - his fans might get me!! Maybe, we could ask him to say a few words when we open the Mary fae Methilhilhill extravaganza!!!

34

John,

california 26/08/2006 23:01:04

Yes, there's nothing like a good red wine, that's why my hubby and I decided to do this, something fun, together, maybe make a little dinero($), or at least enough dinero to pay for our own wine consumption! ;)

I'll let ya know when the site is up...say hello to your wife for me...does she also chat here.....or is it too much of a fight with ya to get at the keyboard??!! :)

35

John,

california 26/08/2006 23:02:19

did the poor colonial miss something with 'Wee Jimmy Krankie'?

36

Anna,

Cambridgeshire 26/08/2006 23:07:31

Do you know who Wee Jimmy Krankie is, Melanie? If not............ they are a Scottish double act played by a man and his wife but the wife is very small and dresses up as a little boy called Jimmy Krankie. They used to be very popular on children's TV shows in the 80s. Anyway, somebody was pretending to be Wee Jimmy on these boards now and again - could have been AJ but not sure! But, I think it's more likely to be the person who is Marie Antionette!!

37

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 26/08/2006 23:12:58

Melanie,

Despite the red wine intake tonight, I'll give you the low down on Wee Jimmy Krankie(WJK).

WJK is a 60 odd year old woman who has been dressing up as a 10 year old schoolboy for 40 odd years - school cap, short troosers etc.

This has been done in the name of comedy of course, however her stage partner/husband, seems to revel in the chasing and spanking. Nevertheless, WJK is a much loved character in the UK.

Recently WJK has been helping Kofi Anan and FIFA in their particular problems, as her/his negotiating skills are second to none.

That is the legend that is WJK!!

38

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 26/08/2006 23:15:24

Anna,
You got their before me................drat double drat(wacky races)

39

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 26/08/2006 23:18:48

Anna,

Tried to push the 'Mary fae Methilhill legend' on the Big Brother story in my abnormal way - check it oot!

40

Anna,

Cambridgeshire 26/08/2006 23:20:13

Yes, AJ and that's despite having had an unusually large amount of gin and tonics tonight!!

Hee, hee hee, rassen, tassen Dick Dastardly!!

41

John,

california 26/08/2006 23:23:10

okay that explains it; by the way, the invite extends to you too should you be in the area...I know one has to be careful etc. I'm not trying to scare ya'll off...it's just we've traveled thru Europe, Eng, Sco, Ire, US, Mex, Can and it was wonderful to have contacts...we've tried to extend the courtesy to those we've met, even if it is only in a neutral capacity eg. what sites to see, but never meet when they visit. Anyway, please don't be frightened off!!

42

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 26/08/2006 23:24:00

Anna,

You've got to admit this networking is good - Melanie is a wine consultant!!!!!!!!!
How cool is that - I always envy people who earn a living from their hobby!

43

John,

california 26/08/2006 23:25:24

well, you all are 8 hours ahead of me with the spirits...darn...maybe I should try to catch up...instead of afternoon tea, it'll have to be afternoon wine cooler!!

44

John,

california 26/08/2006 23:26:32

Well, AJ, unless, my wine business takes off dramatically, I will still be slugging away at the 12 hour hospital shifts!!

45

Anna,

Cambridgeshire 26/08/2006 23:29:30

Maybe, I could be a gin and tonic consultant!! Had a look at the Big Brother site - its a bit boring isn't it? At least you've livened it up a bit at the end! I've added my bit to it - I bet somebody takes it seriously and starts ponitificating!!

I wonder how much gin and tonic the Holy Grail holds!!

46

John,

california 26/08/2006 23:40:00

do you know that I was watching Tom and Jerry this morn with me wee one....I was laughing so hard at all of the cartoon's goings on esp with just having that blog on here....It'll be a shame if they edit all of that time-appropriate wit!!

47

John,

california 26/08/2006 23:49:54

am I hearing the sound of crickets???........well, then, good night all!!!

48

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 27/08/2006 00:18:54

Melanie,

Got to get the head down, knackered, will catch up soon.

49

John,

california 27/08/2006 01:13:06

Ps AJ...it's fun when you add the dialect, in my poor attempt to imitate, I do not mean to insult...you may counter any time with a mimic of a southern accent, but I warn you, mine only comes out after "a few" and then it's something of a mix with a slight English accent...my husband teases me all the time about it......it has to do, I think, with my spending a lot of time either with my British or my American(southern) grandparents growing up. And, when I get around southern or English friends, it only gets worse....bring on the wine!!! ;)

50

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 27/08/2006 08:34:09

Melanie,

A Street Car Named Desire - great film - accents fantastic!

So I like the Southern Drawl.

51

John,

california 27/08/2006 15:51:19

Hi AJ, goodmorning...slept in a bit...up late watching movies with fam/hubby..just recent movies ...so are you a classic movies/americana film buff? I haven't watched AStreet.. in ages, will have to go re-rent. Yes, southern drawls are great, but so are Scottish accents! (and I find Scots language interesting, very colorful-as in vibrance, not the negative connotation, and witty!) Irish accents are fun too, my friend can really thicken it up when he wants to. There is a unique way that I've noticed with how words are put together, used...most Americans seem lacking in that. Save my husband, he's California born of midwest stock, he can say some "country colloquiolisms (sp) " that will set you rolling.
...so back to the topic at hand....lest we get into trouble....have you seen this whirlpool phenomena? It actually looks intriguing. Would love to come over for another visit. We only had a long weekend in Scotland the last time, we wanted to get down to London to visit my great-aunt and were short on time (we only had a two-week train pass for UK, but had been traveling around for about 4 months total...this was definitely before children)...hope you're having a good day, say hi to Anna if I miss her!!!

52

John,

california 27/08/2006 15:58:14

Ps....sorry, should have spaced that out for easier reading

53

John,

california 27/08/2006 18:18:28

AJ, Anna, do you watch the History Intl Channel?....it's along with this topic I suppose, ancient stories, ideas etc...

...we were lucky to be involved in a project about Egypt and harnessing wind power to help move the stones....the documentary is called, "Flying Pyramids, Soaring Stones"; they're currently working on a second documentary, you might able to see our 'ugly mugs' in the second one, unless we end up on the cutting room floor!!! ;)
... (in the first one, my hubby is the one driving the tractor)

see ya around, off to spend time with the not-so-wee-ones, teenagers...aaahhhh!!!

54

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 27/08/2006 18:40:27

Melanie

I used to watch telly, but since these message boards, I've almost given up!

I do watch lots of History/Discovery channel when I do get a chance - my wife finds me incredibly boring. I'll keep an eye out for the documentary.

Enjoy your Sunday.

55

John,

california 27/08/2006 19:26:37

I should hardly think you boring, AJ, with the wit I've seen in your posts.......is "incredibly boring" your words, or hers...........wait!.....nevermind,.....it's best not to be involved in 'domestic' issues!!! ;)

thanks, I am enjoying my Sunday! Have a nice eve.

56

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 27/08/2006 19:41:05

Those were my words Melanie, my wife uses stronger terms! Of course I only jest, but your involvement in Egyptology is very interesting. How did you get involved? Is your hubby an archaeologist or part of a film crew?

Of course I would understand if you don't answer these questions on this forum, but you get more interesting each day. Indeed, I would now put you ahead of Wing Commander Anna in the "windswept and interesting" stakes.

57

Anna,

Cambridgeshire 27/08/2006 20:32:31

AJ

I'm crushed........ ah well, I'm more interested in the story about Keith Richards and the ciggie at the moment, anyway.

Can't be bothered with the SNP one, I wonder if they've ever thought about looking in the whirlpool for the Holy Grail! They might get voted in if they found it!

58

John,

27/08/2006 20:41:55

AJ will have to get back to you later on that, yes will answer your questions....

Anna, don't be crushed...I'm sure you have more than enough interesting stories to share!!! ;)

...will talk with ya'll later, bye for now!

59

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 27/08/2006 21:05:43

Melanie - I'll look forward to that.

Anna or should I say Maam, you've got to admit Melanie's Raiders of the Lost Ark antics have left you floundering. Nevermind you could redeem yourself with stories of missiles going astray in Benbecula.

60

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 28/08/2006 09:49:14

Hi Anna,

Thought I'd retreat from the Zara story before you start giving me a kicking.

Bank Holidays are great.

61

Kilted_kangaroo,

Australia 28/08/2006 11:00:17

Aj and Melanie...........another aboriginal elder told me the story, passed down through eons of living off the land, that a great white tribe once wandered through this red, arid land of ours and said they were from a "subjugated people" to the west. The upshot of it was that the Scottish people are actually the original aboriginal inhabitants of Australia and that they, the people, are only waiting for a calamity of mighty proportions to happen before they start the long trek back to Oz. it would seem that that calamity may happen in 8 months time.

62

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 28/08/2006 12:54:52

Having been to OZ, I canny wait to get back!

63

Anna,

Cambridgeshire 28/08/2006 14:19:27

AJ

Did you wear your shiny red shoes, have a dog called Toto, pal up with a Scarecrow, Lion and Tinman and visit a wizard when you were in OZ?

If that was you ........... then I thought your rendition of 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow' was delightful.

You could ask the wizard if he knows where the Holy Grail thingy is..........

64

Melanie,

california 28/08/2006 14:34:30

AJ, ya best get working on your film about Mary and the Grail, you can enter into the film festival and win that silver sporran!!
...Gordon can consult, if you screenwrite Mary going to OZ
...Anna, I mentioned Ewan McGregor playing one of the leads, or do you have a better suggestion, Liam Neeson can play the wise old sage. AJ had a suggestion for the female lead, how did you sleep that night AJ? No need to comment on your dreams, though! :)

65

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 28/08/2006 14:46:10

Anna,

Very good. Obviously still smarting about Zara!

Melanie,

I slept very well because today is a holiday. I think Monica wouldn't fit the part after all. Who we need would be a rather more whorish type character. Someone like................Jane Fonda in Klute or Roseanne Barr. It's important you cast well!

Melanie, got to ask you, do you like the British Royal family?

66

Anna,

Cambridgeshire 28/08/2006 14:47:12

Hi Melanie,

I think Antonio Banderas should play the sexy male lead......... I know he's not Scottish but that never stopped the French bloke in Highlander playing the lead. Also, Sean Connery played a Spanish bloke in that film.

I'll volunteer to look after Antonio on set......... it'll be a pleasure.......... believe me!!!

67

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 28/08/2006 14:50:51

Anna, Melanie and Gordon,

I've just checked out the Death Row Scot story - he is selling his belongings on e-bay.

What would you buy and why?

68

Anna,

Cambridgeshire 28/08/2006 15:20:55

AJ - Melanie

Check out the brown sauce story - it could be nearly as big as the pesto one............... I still think the one about the millionaire rock star being fined £50 for having a ciggie is fab!!!

Maybe that is what the Holy Grail is - an ancient ashtray ........... and that's why it's been hidden in the Whirlpool - since the Scottish Smoking Ban!!

(Trying to stay on topic here a bit btw!)

69

Melanie,

california 28/08/2006 15:33:19

ah, yes, Anna he is a bit of a hunk, and I do believe a nice guy, actually...I'll give you a few words in spanish you can whisper into his ear!! ;)

But, I still vote for Ewan, the only thing Latin I really like is a bit of the spanish guitar, flamenco , or to dance a tango! Too bad Liam is aging, I liked him in Rob Roy. (and, please NO comments on the female american colonial drooling over the Scottish highland warrior!!!! (Liam's Irish, anyway!) ;)

...I bet Johnny Depp might come up with an interesting character...can we work out Jack Sparrow finding the Holy Grail in the whirlpool following his being swallowed by the Crackin??

70

Melanie,

california 28/08/2006 15:41:15

Hi AJ, "do I like the Royal Family" tsk tsk , are you type-casting me??

to be honest, I could care less...my dad's parents did their best to keep me clued in...(they didn't want me growing up..."too American")...they were very much loyal to Queen and country (my grand-dad became an American Citizen for economical purposes only)
.....I grew up seeing (in books), Prince Andie on his pony, (I loved horses...still do) and the royal children doing this/that....trust me, I realized there's no such thing as...Prince Charming!!!!

Bravo for Zara, I wouldn't want to take a horse, no matter how well trained, over those fences!!!

71

Melanie,

california 28/08/2006 16:19:06

Hi AJ, just curious as to your comment here....you don't need to go into detail re this if you don't want to, but I am curious as to your thoughts...
"Yes, the Bowes Lyon thing............ I'm a bit touchy on the Scottish Aristocrats issue, however come the revolution - they could all be 're-educated'.
...don't forget to keep in line with the subject here...maybe the royal jewels King Chas I lost have made their way into the whirlpool vortex?? (it was King ChasI right?? crown jewels or something sank on the ferry??)

72

Melanie,

california 28/08/2006 16:48:48

Hi Anna, couldn't find the 'brown sauce story' care to clue me in....

AJ , found the ebay sale, no thanks!...there may be too many nits and other jailhouse creepy crawlies on the merchandise!!

hope to see ya'll round later, again, darn this time difference!! ;)

73

Anna,

Cambridgeshire 28/08/2006 18:04:32

Melanie

It's the Branston sauce story after the Zara Phillips one on the UK news site.

Maybe, we could use the Holy Grail as a table centre for brown sauce........

74

Melanie,

calif 28/08/2006 18:26:55

found it...on a third page or something, must have missed it earlier; it's not after Zara on my page. thanks. I think Trifle would be better as the Holy Grail centerpiece, but then, you couldn't see the layers!

75

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 28/08/2006 23:34:40

Had to go out tonight to a concert in Edinburgh, so I've missed the latest stuff on the Holy Grail scandal.

Melanie, the "come the revolution" remark was taken from a Marxist called Wolfie Smith. In the seventies he was going to sort everyone out "come the revolution". I should add, this was a comedy show on telly starring Robert Lindsay.

So you can put your gun away, I'm not a marxist revolutionary! The Scottish Aristos are safe.

Anna, I'll try and ketchup with you tomorrow.

76

Melanie,

california 29/08/2006 02:56:40

hello, sorry I missed ya AJ was out at dance class with my youngest still-little one. Hope the concert was nice....what was the music genre??

I enjoyed walking around Edinburgh (1989-backpacks and Euro/UK train passes), but with some of the posts I've been reading, I think I might want to pass on seeing the city again, or at least have a tour map of the 'stay-away from' areas...

I was wondering if our 'whirlpool' respite might be closing it's doors for comments soon...hopefully we'll find another subject forum we can function in and still get some chatting done, away from the other heavier, ranting -type subjects.

don't worry AJ, it didn't strike me that you were the Marxist type! I suppose I was just curious to see if You liked the Royals!! ;)

you might notice that I added a blog site... My wine consulting website prob won't be up for a few weeks, (it's the winery's deal, have little control over it)...the blog is prob better as neutral site to give you the info on the Egypt thing. It would be hard to work in the Grail aspect and might be too personal to be allowed here...so with that said...

Anna, AJ...please be merciful to the poor colonial with regard to the site...the name comes from a quote from the kid's movie "The Incredibles"...the site is meant to be lighthearted, and was created late at night after much sampling of my consulting 'products'!! ;)

Disc/Hist Ch is a must in our house!, sorry I missed the BBC program on the whirlpool ( on subject) ...I'll try to post the info on the blog tonite re Egypt/with sites to where you can see film clips.

in case I miss ya'll in the morn/tomorrow, hope you all have a great day! :)

77

Melanie,

california 29/08/2006 08:25:21

Hi Anna, well, it seems the brown sauce wasn't quite as spicy as the pesto!!

As the screenplay for 'Mary and the Grail' seems to be on hold due to the lack of finding an adequate female role...sorry AJ, but I think we ladies have done our part quite well in finding some 'mighty fine' gentlemen to fill the role!...

...perhaps we could help find the stolen Robin Hood tapes; was there a reward??

I apologise ahead of time as this post is heavily influenced by Jim Morrison and the ever dedication to sampling and accurately describing the full body and aroma of a particular red wine!

Don't worry, I type responsibly!

AJ/Anna...what do you think of the movie, 'Apocalypse Now'?....sorry kind of heavy, but the song, 'This is the end' just came on....lest it get too heavy, it's best to change to some Eric Clapton!

...the info for the Egypt/wind power theory is on the blog....if you get a chance, have a look and let me know what you think about the project!

Again, have a great day... I have a day off Tues. so I will be sleeping in....thanks for all the chatting....

(to be said in a southern drawl...
....."it's ben a pleasure, I'm sure!")

78

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 29/08/2006 08:32:00

Melanie,

Most of the people who post comments are ultra negative - Edinburgh is as vibrant today as it was 1989, infact more so with the growth of the annual festival. Having been to many major cities throughout the world, Edinburgh still has an appeal that is unique. Ignore the Trainspotting image, it is there if you look hard enough, but that is the case in most cities.

The band I went to see were the Dirty Pretty Things - up and coming rock band - very raw and punklike. Great gig!

Have a good one and I'll look forward to the Holy Grail/Pyramids/Methilhill film clips

79

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 29/08/2006 08:39:12

Melanie,

Are you having a party? The Legend of Jim Morrison is as captivating as the Holy Grail. One of my all time favourite bands. Apocalypse Now is another classic. Only like Eric Clapton until 1982, everything before was great, after he was boring - just my personal opinion.

Right, the female part - Madonna is too old but fits my criteria perfectly. It's gotta be Christina Aguilera - she is a Madonna type for sure.

80

Melanie,

california 29/08/2006 08:58:29

Hi AJ, sorry was listening to 'Deadwood' and "Bang Bang your dead', reading lyrics to B.U.R.M.A. My bro was/is really into punk...San Diego mosh pits....

not really having a party, just home don't have to work tomorrow, I like Van Morrison, and CCR, lots of good music from that time period...

81

Melanie,

california 29/08/2006 09:12:31

Madonna would have been perfect, I agree!!! Christina....okay, I'm sold!! She gets the part...when do we start filming?!

I listen to a variety of music, not so much rock...some classic like Aerosmith...love the music from the 60's, the Doors and CCR esp,(the turmoil of the times is reflected; I remember vaguely Vietnam images on the Tele....am I giving away my age??)....I am also, do I dare confess...a classic country western fan...Johnny Cash...and yes, I listen to the Chieftans, Gaelic Storm, and a folk band from Aberdeen? Old Blind Dogs, but to even it out I also listen to Mozart and some Pink Floyd!! ;)

...and, as I am a fan of archeology and the search for the Holy Grail (must stay on topic), I always thought it would be fun to come over your way with a metal detector and investigate some field or something....you know, get a finder's fee for some lost Viking/Celtic/Saxon treasure!

82

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 29/08/2006 09:20:50

Melanie,

You sure you're not a Hippy.

83

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 29/08/2006 09:39:23

If you can download music, check out Aberfeldy - folk/rock - great band relatively new, only two albums.

Aberfeldy the town, is a place in Scotland quite near the claimed birthplace of Pontious Pilate. Now that's a spectacular attempt to get the tourists in!!

As for your age, I reckon you must be a similar vintage as myself- just approaching middle age! Dunno about Anna though, she could be anywhere between 35 and 60.

84

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 29/08/2006 09:47:10

Do you like Dirty Pretty Things?

It's like finding the Holy Grail!

85

Melanie,

california 29/08/2006 10:11:10

I didn't get to hear the song BURMA, but I thought the lyrics were interesting....I like to know the stories behind the songs...I liked their energy, and the sound of the slower song, Bang Bang... My bro's punk music put me off, a bit, to some of the faster, harder core Punk...it always sounded a little "too angry" for my taste...but I refuse to form any opinion until I listen to more!

...when I recover from my late nite/early morn, I will listen to more, and to the Aberfeldy group

...as to your hippie comment.... you've found me out!! ;) My somewhat stuffy relatives, of the proper English persuasion (no, "dis" as in disrespect to you Anna!) have labeled me as such!

...can I let you in on yet another story AJ....(in my search for the Holy Grail, must stay on topic)...we lived a rather nomadic life in my early married years....backpack/europe...then lived in an American Indian teepee...like in the movie 'Dances with Wolves'....much to the shock of my family....but it was great! very Free!

86

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 29/08/2006 10:20:07

Melanie,

You get better, I sense a wild spirit, beads, bells, flowers, guitar on the back etc, - you where searching for the Holy Grail!!

Did you ever see the film Breezie (I think), starring William Holden who is a middle aged businessman and is shown a better life by a young hippy girl?
I think that was set in California!?!

87

Melanie,

california 29/08/2006 10:25:38

actually to be sensitive to the first Americans, I should have said, "Native American teepee"....

oh, it's getting late, if I'm going to recover to function at all today, I best get to bed!!

...I'm open to most questions about things, AJ, even if it's agree to disagree, so feel free to ask...I love exchanging ideas, cultures, etc

...good nite/morn...will talk with ya soon....glad you had a great time at the gig!

88

Melanie,

california 29/08/2006 10:27:04

no to Breezie...yes to beads! and yes to the wild spirit....Gaelic Storm has a song...Heart of the Ocean...I hear myself in that one..

89

Melanie,

california 29/08/2006 10:33:53

...I do have a 'sensible' side to me lest give you the impression of me only running thru tha heather, hair loose, throwing flowers...but I am ever in the quest for the Holy Grail, so to speak....why else are we here??!

please, your posts are too interesting to refuse....but I Must get some sleep!!!!

90

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 29/08/2006 11:08:17

Melanie,

GNite

91

JBN,

Frankfurt 29/08/2006 13:51:03

My Goodness, you people talk a lot!...I decided as an expat to get in on the action. All I can say is that I don´t give a damn about the Holy Grail but... Hippies, Jim Morrison, Eric Clapton...that´s more interesting!
Has anyone but my goodself been on the Marrakesch Express?
And is it old-fashioned to like Runrig, as you haven´t mentioned them?

92

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 29/08/2006 15:02:40

Jill,

You've got to keep with topic - The Holy Grail

However, never been on the Marrakesch Express but I love the CSNY song.

In my opinion Runrig are naff these days, although since the old lead singer left to become Prime Minister they have improved - according to my sources.

Are you a German? I'm going to Berlin in October - searching for the Holy Grail and other Nazi war plunder - got any ideas?

93

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 29/08/2006 15:05:00

Oops, just noticed you're an ex-pat, that kinda takes the edge off the Nazi plunder comment.....nevermind!

94

Anna,

Cambridgeshire 29/08/2006 17:29:35

AJ - you could tie that comment about the Nazi plunder with the Indiana Jones film about the Lost Ark of the Covenant - which is a bit like the search for the Holy Grail. No one knows where it is, it's supposed to have magical powers, religious association, everyone wants to find it and/or make money out of it etc etc.

Actually the lost Ark could be in the whirlpool on the same ledge as the Grail - it's a possibility. Or it could be located near the 'fertile spring of living water' at the Mary fae Metilhilhill shrine".

Btw: About age - I would guess yours at about 40ish.

95

Corbett Hunckers,

Fife 29/08/2006 18:13:55

Age Question - not a million miles away.

The Ark and Holy Grail - legend has them buried under the Parish Church in Methilhill, so in for a penny...........

Rudolf Hess delivered them in 1941! The Duke of Hamilton never admits this little known fact.

The girl from Germany sounded good, but must have got bored!