Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

 
 
Wednesday, 9th December 2009

Number of parades 'unsustainable', say Strathclyde Police

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 01 October 2009
THE number of parades and marches which Scotland's largest force has to police is unsustainable, a senior police authority figure said today.
A total of 1,061 marches took place in the year to March 31 which cost Strathclyde Police £1.7 million, according to a report presented to the force authority today.

Dealing with the events took 49,859 hours of police time and 96 people were arrested.

One event alone, the County Grand Orange Lodge parade in Glasgow on July 4, cost £582,039 to police and used up about 23,000 hours of officers' time.

A separate second report noted that violence, disorder and antisocial behaviour increased on march days.

At its meeting in Hamilton today, Strathclyde Police Authority (SPA) agreed to work with local authorities and other stakeholders to discuss ways of reducing the joint costs of policing marches and parades.

Paul Rooney, SPA convener, said: "The burden that the 1,000 or more marches has on the force resources is unsustainable.

"We are keen to ensure that we uphold people's freedom of expression, however we have to ensure that every single parade and march is proportionate and reasonable."

The first report showed that the number of marches, which include Army parades and Stop The War Coalition demonstrations, has risen in recent years from 979 in 2003 to 1,061 in the 12 months to March 31 this year.

Between March 2008 and April 2009, Glasgow had more parades involving Protestant Loyal Order and Republican organisations than Belfast, with 247 compared with Belfast's 217.

Chief Constable Stephen House said the events are stretching police resources, with officers deployed to cover marches instead of dealing with other duties.

He told today's SPA meeting: "It's not our role as the police to tell communities how many parades they are to hold.

"That's not our role and it's not this body's role but I think it is our job to flag up to you where we feel there's disproportionate use of police time and your budget and that's what we believe is happening at the moment.

"We believe the hundreds that exist are too many. It's out of balance.

"By discussion we believe that we could reach a more reasonable number and a more reasonable settlement for everybody."

He said the police will only object to a parade or march on safety grounds.

The report said: "As the numbers of events continues to rise, Strathclyde Police are required to deploy a disproportionate number of officers on a regular basis with no means of cost recovery."

The second report looked at disorder and violence in Glasgow, Cumnock and Lanarkshire during Loyal Orange Lodge processions on Saturday July 4 and 11.

It noted increases in some crimes such as drinking in the street, breaches of the peace and assaults on march days, compared with an average Saturday.

The high police presence may have prevented more crime from occurring and may mean that more crimes than usual were detected because there more officers were about.

Page 1 of 1

 
1

AJ Fife,

01/10/2009 14:23:13
Let the Orangemen police themselves like they say they can. Then after the violence and mayhem, ban them!
2

Lianachan,

Highlands 01/10/2009 14:55:59
#1 Indeed. The Orangepolicemen would presumably need some kind of clothing to distinguish them from the marchers. Brown shirts, perhaps?
3

Mrs Broon,

Scotland 01/10/2009 15:10:17
Say they can have their marches as long as they pay for the policing, as the meerkat says 'simple'
4

Mrs Broon,

Scotland 01/10/2009 15:11:55
I just read the article, geez, I did not know our police worked 23,000 hours.
5

Shape to Shoot,

01/10/2009 15:54:15
I'm a Catholic, and a Celtic supporter. Nevertheless, I am also a democrat and would , ironically, man the barracades if there was an outright ban on their right to march.

They have that right and it must be protected for all our sakes, however unpleasant their message might be.
On the face of it, they do no more than celebrate the end of the Stewart monarchy, a dynasty which believed in the divine right of kings.

Parliament would rule the day, and William of Orange said OK to that. To be honest, thank God they were , at least temporarily, successful.

But orangeism has lost sight of those early ideals. The present monarch is on record for saying that she too believes in the divine right of kings, and what is worse is that the orange movement have played host to that view. Oliver Cromwell would be turning in his grave at the state of scottish and northen irish orangeism.

Cromwell saw through the PR ...fair enough, he hated catholicism, but just as much he hated a protestant king (charles the first) because he saw himself above the democratic will, and on that score, Cromwell and I are at one.

The defeat of King James at the battle of the boyne was a defeat of the majesty of kings. From then on, we would have the rule of law....how strange these orange chaps are as they now kneel before a monarch...they betray their roots.
6

mad world,

01/10/2009 16:05:36
#5
Well put Sir!

Always understood Cromwell's dislike of Charles to be down to his belief he was too close to the Catholics? Amongst a myriad of other things
7

Gordieboy,

Musselburgh 01/10/2009 16:21:07
#5 great post, although we should distinguish between Cromwell's aims and the beliefs of the OO, which didn't come into being until about 1695, nearly 40 years after Cromwell's death.

#6 I think you are correct - Charles I was too suspiciously Catholic for Cromwell's liking, and indeed there is now a strong argument that he was secretly catholic. His son, who upon the restitution of the monarchy became Charles II, was certainly a secret Catholic and this forms part of the narrative of An Instance of the Fingerpost by Ian Pears, one of the finest (IMO) historical novels ever written.
8

Guy Wersh,

01/10/2009 16:21:37
I defend their right to march as well Shape but they *should* also be prepared to pay for the police time.

If I were to arrange a cycle race (not necessarily a big, road closed event) I would have to pay for that police time used. What's the difference?
9

Jings MacCrivvens,

01/10/2009 16:32:29
If these bigots on either side of the sectarian divide insist on "marching" then the respective organisations should meet the cost of policing the event in full.
10

puskas,

East kilbride 01/10/2009 16:53:50
I do not wish to go back to Cromwell or anyone else centuries ago..

Present day..

Do not let kid ourselves these marches do nothing for Scotland and the anti - bigotry campaign..

For a start, why over 2000 marches... Why is that necessary?

I have like many others seen the violence associated with these marches... Yes by bystanders as well..

No bystander need put up with what is associated with the Orange Order...

Have none of you ever visited a park say like Queens Park in Glasgow that has been used for the Orange so - called festival..

Buckfast louts some lying on their backs absolutely out their minds singing their anti - catholic songs?

The rubbish not only in the park but on all pavements throughout Glasgow..as the different lodges march from their areas..

Yes let them march. Once every year in Scotland. let them chose the date and place in agreement with the local authorities and police.
All expenses to be paid up front before march is allowed..
These marches are no carnival as some suggest.

My catholic friend above can make his case for these marches to continue based on history... I make mine for present day and our future in an independent Scotland Free of all bigotry and sectatianism.
A country for all religions and crede..

BTW I was born COS...




11

The Invigilator,

01/10/2009 16:54:46
r g rtgr
12

The Invigilator,

01/10/2009 16:55:05
hhhhh
13

Alba Abú,

01/10/2009 17:12:53
#10 Totally agree.
If there were no Catholics there would be no orange order. As a practising member of the Church of Scotland,I have to say this,these orangemen are not Protestant,the majority of them do not attend Protestant churches.Their idea of the Protestant faith is to get drunk on the 12th of July and say appalling things about the spiritual leader of the worlds one billion Roman Catholics.

What's Protestant about that? What's Christian about that ? Yes! they say they defend religious freedom,but as long as its their idea of religion, which is quite backward.

I really think the time has come for the people of Scotland to stand up to these backward looking bigots and tell them to join us in the 21st century or get their cheque books out.
14

Invictager,

Kent 01/10/2009 17:15:00
The actual report above says Glasgow had 247 marches involving orange AND republican organisation out of a TOTAL of 1061.

Hardly over 2000 and less than 25% of the total marches but hey why let facts get in the way of your rant.

As Patrick said above in a democracy you must not ban things simply because you don't like them.
15

Soosider,

Glasgow 01/10/2009 17:19:36
#5 well said, however while I agree with you about the dangers of banning any organisation, I do believe that a balance has to be struck. It is not just about some people who might view this as them celebrating their culture. It is also about the views of all of us as to the suitability of the routes and the frequency of them. I find it ridiculous the number of marches that happen in my city, where there are more Orange Marches than in Belfast and Londonderry combined. A possible solution might be to give the organisation a set number of dates and times for marches, where the route is well away from causing disruption to the vast majority of people who find this celebration of a battle 300 years ago in a foreign country a strange and foreign to them.
Limit the number, limit the routes and minimise the disruption.
16

Alba Abú,

01/10/2009 17:25:43
There are plenty of parks in and around Glasgow. If these people want to have a hate fest,let them have it in the parks,away from the vast civilised majority,and by the way,many of them I am sure would be well able to graze the grass after the drinking and swearing is done with.
17

Grahamski,

Falkirk 01/10/2009 17:27:31
Let the Orange Order have one march to celebrate whatever it is they imagine they are celebrating. Thereafter any additional march should have to pay all the policing in advance and they should also have to pay a bond which would be forfeit if any trouble ensues from their activities.
Relgious freedom is one thing but nobody should be free to intimidate others in the name of 'religion'.
18

Traquìr,

Alba 01/10/2009 17:33:58
Very interesting that the biggest supporters of British nationalism are the bigoted BNP and the Orange Order. That said they at least admit they are British Nationalists unlike most defenders of the Union on this site where the Cyber Brit Nats often don't even have the guts to admit it never mind build a positive case to defend it.

The British condition is a very strange thing indeed.
19

Grahamski,

Falkirk 01/10/2009 17:35:48
16

"Very interesting that the biggest supporters of British nationalism are the bigoted BNP and the Orange Order. "

Err, maybe that's because they are nationalists?
20

puskas,

East kilbride 01/10/2009 17:45:29
No12 Hi... I read what it said above...

I have also read reports stating 1900 marches .

1898 Orange and 2 republican...

My view takes in all parades of this sort...

Hi Grahamski... We would rarely agree but I gladly put my hand out that we have something in common..
Cheers..

No11 Hi Alba.. COS member myself for some who didn't understand what COS was
In full agreement. 113 Boys Brigade, 63 Lifeboys for 9 years I'm glad this organisation tought me better.

Of course education had a great deal to do with that ..Hutcheson Grammer, Allen Glens, Glasgow High and myself Queens Park Higher Grade School, All members of what was a wonderful organisation..
Tought as christians and to accept all ...as our brothers and sisters ..
21

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 01/10/2009 17:49:29
There is really no need to have street marches. If they want to meet together let them use a public park or other venue, which can be policed by stewards. Any use of the police should be paid for like waht football clubs have to pay for. One bobby policing these marches is one less fighting real crime. the rest of society have the right to that. The number of marches is excessive. They can meet up and hold one on the 12th of July. They do not need any more marches that are a drain on the Strathclyde Police resources, and which is being paid for by Protestant, Catholic, Muslim and atheist tax payers.
22

Traquìr,

Alba 01/10/2009 17:50:42
17 Grahamski,Falkirk

Ah ha that was quick the first British Nationalist denier from the Brit Nat cabal.

No doubt you would like and will continue to equate the civic and inclusive nationalism of the SNP with scum like the BNP and the Orange Order, but that only serves to highlight your issues. No doubt you will now expand like many other Brit Nats comparisons with other sickening forms of nationalism as those under Hitler and Mussolini.

We all know your script already , and nobody believes it.

It looks all the more ridiculous when the head of the faux-socialist Labour Party, Gordon Brown, frequently appears more like a British nationalist than the BNP -


"Gordon Brown defends 'British jobs for British worker' phrase "

see - tinyurl.com/bra9hq

"Brown speech promotes Britishness"

see - tinyurl.com/9dxr2

"New Labour, new British nationalism"

"Gordon Brown’s British nationalism project has been seriously struggling of late. The recommendations of Citizen Goldsmith were remorselessly mocked, a British Football Team now looks unlikely and plans for a museum of Britishness have been scaled back."

see - tinyurl.com/cn2c44

"Brown: Remembrance Sunday should become 'British Day'"

see - tinyurl.com/dhzrqy

"Gordon Brown and the re-invention of Britishness"

see - tinyurl.com/dxbero

"Gordon orders Whitehall to fly the flag in boost for Britishness"

see - tinyurl.com/da3aky

"Gordon Brown will call on the British people today to celebrate their patriotism and embrace the Union flag "

"In a speech that is bound to anger some on the Labour Left, he will suggest that homeowners imitate the Americans by planting "a (Union) flag in every garden"

see - tinyurl.com/c94fgy

It is the ultimate irony many British deny the fact they are even nationalists, perhaps a reflection that the British concept is artificial.
23

danbob,

01/10/2009 18:07:00
So we have catholic nationalists, protestant nationalists, Catholic unionists, protestant unionists, Catholics who dont practise their faith but still dont like unionists, Unionists who are secular but dont like catholics, and vice verse. Confused? You will be after independence and this lot after live together.
24

Liberty Valance,

01/10/2009 18:08:55
I feel that those who feel it necessary to take over our streets in order to get in the faces of people who dont share their bigoted views,are a blight on our country.This is not an execise in culture by the orange faction,this is in your face bigotry.
Most people would agree with me when I say,If you want to take over our streets,then there is a financial cost to cover the cleaning up of the urine,puke and Buckfast bottles,left in the wake of such a display of bigotry.
25

Liberty Valance,

01/10/2009 18:13:09
#22 "faction"
26

Liberty Valance,

01/10/2009 18:14:02
" exercise" Whew! must be the buckfast.
27

radge dug,

01/10/2009 19:09:05
#16 - you forget that Labour and Tory are united with the Bnp and Orange Order in a lot of their policies. Defending the 'British Union' is just one.

AS to the O.O. - if you're so proud of being Christian, then go to church. You ALREADY have your freedom of expression - NO ONE is stopping you going to the church of your choice. It's just funny that their faith seems to involve worshipping a homosexual king, going to Ibrox instead of church and getting drunk on public roads.
28

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 01/10/2009 19:10:04
If people want to march around in silly costumes let them. But don't expect the tax payer to pick up the tab for policing their event. Give the bill to the organization that organizes the march.
29

letmein,

01/10/2009 19:22:48
I see Grahamski is back talking the same phish as always.
Why allow these people to march and stop anti muslim marches. Is this the same as mobo, its ok if you are a muslim or black, but us white honkies are not allowed to say anything against coloureds.
30

Ibrox Champion,

01/10/2009 19:26:57
#26 Good post.
As one who attends Ibrox,I have to say here and now that I have always distanced myself from people who call themselves Protestant, whilst at the same time behaving like drunken heathens who have never seen the inside of a Protestant church since the day the minister put water on their head,and I firmly believe that many of these so called Protestants were even denied that symbol of Christianity.

Lets face it,this flag waving and drum beating is just an excuse for people who have really been cheated in life. The same people are no better off than their Roman Catholic neighbours,when it comes to finding a job or living in decent housing. Their triuphalism is indeed, all in their heads.
31

Alba Abú,

01/10/2009 19:53:55
If the orange were really true to their Dutch prince,they would be wearing pink sashes and not orange. As their minset is firmly in the seventeenth century,it is only natural that they are finding it hard to accept the recent revelations in relation to their gay prince.
32

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/10/2009 20:24:42
I don't think either the Polis or GCC want to ban Orange marches. They just want to curtail them, to restrict the amount of marches, and to ensure that Glaswegians can go about their daily business without being intimidated.

And when they are confined to a reasonable amount of marching time I would like to see the Polis take it one step further - and actually police these marches and lift every drunken ned who offers insult to anyone who doesn't fit in with their worldview. These people have been committing breaches of the peace for as long as I can remember and they've done it with impunity.

That needs to stop.
33

Gone Walkabout,

Guang Dong 01/10/2009 20:40:37
#25

Good post apart from the last sentence 'Our society needs a good shake'.

No mate - YOUR society needs a good shake, my society in the NE allowed me to progress right through the school system to adulthood without any exposrue to sectarianism whatsoever - outsides of the nausia of the visit of the old firm teams.

This isn't Scotland's problem its an issue for Glasgow and its satalite estates.

Dig a ditch round Glasgow and the South West, tow it out to Northern Ireland and burn it. Problem solved.
34

Observer,,

Glasgow 01/10/2009 21:05:21
32 At least in Glasgow we know how to spell.
35

Gone Walkabout,

Guang Dong 01/10/2009 21:41:10
@33

Well, you arra people after all so your spelling is bound to be better.

My point is quite valid (perhaps not my suggested solution) and the problem will never be solved because the population are not interested in progress.
36

Ggordon,

01/10/2009 22:05:14



Can't actually believe the number of marches that take place in Glasgow. Have you nothing better to do. No wonder you have sectarian strife. It is a small number of the population.

Was in Glasgow one evening after Ranger v Celtic match and there was a helicopter overhead monitoring the marauding fans. Could not believe it.

The Glasgow Council claims it is short of fund. This carry on would not be tolerated anywhere else.

The kids that play together stay together. Trouble is Catholic schools are considered to be good schools. Everyone becomes a 'catholic' to get their children a better education.
37

Liberty Valance,

01/10/2009 22:38:11
#36. If what you say is true about Inverness and I have no reason to doubt you,it would appear that this cancer of sectarian hatred is spreading to areas which heretofore were unaffected by this form of Klu Klux Klanism.
38

AVRENIM,

Montvalent 01/10/2009 23:21:27
Remember King William was married to a protestant Stewart (Mary) so the idea was to unite, not divide.
39

State of Independence,

02/10/2009 00:02:07
Good to see we are making progress.
40

Jack Mac,

Uk 19/11/2009 08:17:15
I once made the mistake of catching a ferry to Belfast at the same time as those 'loyal' supporters heading back from Ibrox. I was ashamed to be on board and the terrified look on some passengers faces said it all. There is no place for sectarian garbage from any side in Scotland but it is pretty endemic. It is a scottish problem and the soonner we address it the better for our country in general.

There is no need for any marches where sectarian causes are being celebrated. It's an excuse for drunkeness and collective aggression. It has nothing to do with religion either I doubt most halfwits on these marches have any clear understanding of why they are marching.

These people need to grow upwards not backwards

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
RSS Feed of this article's comments
Delivery formats: RSS, Atom, Javascript & Email
 
  

 
 


Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.