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Rejecting Trump plan 'would be a tragedy'



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Published Date: 05 July 2008
IT WOULD be a tragedy for Scotland if Donald Trump's ambitious plans for a £1 billion golf resort on a protected stretch of the Aberdeenshire coast are rejected, the tycoon's counsel claimed yesterday.
Colin Boyd, the former Lord Advocate, told the inquiry into the controversial project that the country was "seldom presented with such an audacious proposal".

In an impassioned appeal to government planning reporters to back the scheme at Menie links, Lord Boyd said: "You only have to be in the presence of Donald Trump to understand its ambition or to walk the site to understand its scale, or to stand where the 13th tee will be to appreciate its grandeur.

"In my submission this truly is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. We will not see its like again. It would be a tragedy for Scotland if we let it pass by."

Speaking on the final day of the four-week-long inquiry at the Aberdeen Exhibition and Conference Centre, he added: "It is an inquiry which the applicants did not seek and would not have desired. Nevertheless it has resulted, in my submission, in an unprecedented level of scrutiny for an application."

Mr Trump's plan, he said, was to develop a major golf resort on a scale never seen before in Britain, centred on an "exceptional world-class" course on the Menie links in Aberdeenshire – a setting of high-quality landscape and environment.

The development, he said, would bring very significant economic benefits not just to the North-east but to Scotland as a whole.

But in order to achieve Mr Trump's vision of building the "best golf course in the world" it was vital to use the land within the Foveran site of special scientific interest (SSSI). The back nine holes of the main championship course would be laid out within the shifting sand-dunes in the SSSI. Lord Boyd said: "I accept that the development will have significant adverse effects on the qualities for which the area has been designated but I submit that these are clearly outweighed by economic benefits of national importance."

The applicants, he argued, had not sought to hide or massage the impacts of the development on the environment, and they had sought the advice of leading experts about the potential impact of the scheme.

"A more unscrupulous dev-eloper might have tried to obtain more pliable advice but that has not been the applicants' approach," said Lord Boyd.

He said Mr Trump's vision and the position of the Trump Organisation had been clear from the beginning. "If the applicants are to realise the vision of an exceptional world-class course underpinning £1 billion of investment then the championship course needs to use the SSSI," he told the inquiry. "To say that is not to refuse to compromise – it is a statement of principle and fact. Mr Trump made his position clear in his precognition when he said that the bottom line was that if he was refused permission to develop on the southern end of the SSSI he would withdraw from the development as it would not and could not fulfil his ambition…"

The inquiry reporters are expected to make their recommendations to Scottish ministers by late August or early September. The Trump development comprises two championship golf courses, a 450-room hotel, 1,000 timeshare apartments, 36 golf villas and 500 homes.

Sand-dunes landscape 'crucial' to Menie bid

DONALD Trump has made it clear from day one that the shifting sand-dunes in the Menie site of special scientific interest are key to his dream of creating the "world's greatest golf course" in Scotland.

He argued that without the spectacular landscape of the mobile dunes his main championship golf course will not be worth building at Menie and that he will simply walk away from the plan.

The land in the site of special scientific interest (SSSI) is "critical" to the development and it is critical to the development because of the scale of investment involved.

The Trump Organisation also maintains that this is an application where the social and economic benefits are of national importance and override the adverse environmental impacts.

Mr Trump insisted that he plans to minimise or mitigate the impact of the development where possible. Less than 10 per cent of the total SSSI area would be directly affected and two-thirds would not be affected at all.

It is also planned to "translocate" the habitats by stripping turf from protected areas and moving it elsewhere.

The tycoon has received the backing of Aberdeenshire Council and local business leaders, including Aberdeen and Grampian Chamber of Commerce.

They have all argued that the scheme is of national importance, will bring up to 1,200 jobs to the North-east of Scotland and will help the area diversify from its oil dependent economy and-establish it as a major world destination for golfers.

Danger of colossal damage for the region

AGAINST


THE proposed Trump development will cause "colossal and needless" environmental damage at the Menie Links, according to the main environmental groups opposing the scheme – RSPB Scotland and the Scottish Wildlife Trust.

If the tycoon is given the go-ahead to construct his course on a protected stretch of the Aberdeenshire coastline such a decision could prove potentially disastrous for Scotland's global environmental reputation and send out a "dangerous" message that Scotland is prepared to wantonly destroy its most precious natural assets.

Environmental campaigners claim that the mobile sand dune system at Menie is the most extensive example of a dynamic dune system in the UK and of unrivalled national ecological importance. Precious environmental assets must be protected.

The main purpose of designation as a site of special scientific interest (SSSI) is to defend nationally important areas against damaging developments and would be severely compromised by approval of the Trump scheme.

A spokesman for the organisations said: "All we want now is for ministers to consider what is best for Scotland, not simply for the applicant, and to stand by their repeatedly stated strategic goals of delivering sustainable economic growth that puts this country's environment at its core.

"If they decide this development should go ahead, they can issue a consent which avoids development in the legally protected SSSI while still allowing the rest of the proposal to be built."

They said it – exchanges in the battle of words

If somebody else had applied, they would have gotten it a lot easier than me. The celebrity and all of this media and craziness is probably a liability for me. But it's an asset for the area and for Scotland. Everybody is talking about this course all over the world."

Donald Trump

"The value of the Menie links as part of the Foveran SSSI cannot be overstated. It is, quite simply, the jewel in the crown of the SSSI areas of bare sand in this area of Scotland and, therefore, the jewel in the crown of the UK resource."

Dr Jim Hansom, a former member of the scientific advisory committee of Scottish Natural Heritage

"If you have a development such as this, then you have the prospect of not only rooting companies in the area, but also attracting others to come and locate their headquarters – perhaps their global headquarters – in this area."

Anne Robertson, the leader of Aberdeenshire Council

"The applicant had behaved very unusually towards the council and effectively demanded the surrender of the planning system."

Councillor Martin Ford

"Allowing the development as proposed would be tantamount to killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Approving the destruction of Menie links contravenes almost every planning policy, environmental policy and government strategy in the national canon.

"We do not believe that leisure developments of this kind should, or need to be at the expense of environmental assets of the highest value."

Jonathan Hughes, the head of policy for the Scottish Wildlife Trust


The full article contains 1323 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 05 July 2008 12:41 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Donald Trump
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/07/2008 00:20:52

One good outcome must be,...

The learning lesson of,..Coming Against the Kilt'!

And any thoughts of a,..'Walk Over', is Not the Case!.
2

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 05/07/2008 00:47:21
Rejecting Trump would be madness. Wildlife, how unique can it be, we have miles and miles of coastine. Trumps plans are considerate to this.

Anti american feeling, anti personal wealth fanatics, nimbysism, etc have no place. It's a gift horse. The gated area will last a relative few years, the investment impact will last longer.
3

Blue Tooner,

Aberdeenshire 05/07/2008 01:01:55
With the recent global shift towards the promotion of environmental protection, how could anyone with an ounce of self-respect relax and enjoy a round of golf on a course that has caused so much environmental destruction? The developer has a chance here to do something that could win some respect from both sides of the debate, but he just won't budge.
Has anyone mentioned how much a golfer would have to pay to play the greatest course in the world? A lot of people would really like to know.
4

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/07/2008 01:02:33

Thankyou, Ars Gratia Artis ~3,

"style" maybe difficult to understand, as was my schooling changes in my younger years, for me, this seems to come across in my commenting.

But I do get 'Compassionate' on subjects such as this one.

5

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 05/07/2008 01:09:04
The rejection of this plan is just tantamount to saying the Scot's are losers .... Left wing politiscams will not have anything to do with Trump because he will show them up to be the failures that they are ....

Can we not return to a Scotland that was great and that encouraged the success of all rather than just the success of the councilors son ?
6

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/07/2008 01:33:20

Ars Gratia Artis ~10,

I get these "doubles" at times as-well,

Thank God its not,...'Double Trump' :)

(as in cards, you understand!)....:D
7

mollyfurie,

California 05/07/2008 01:45:02
And this, from the Herald:
"Donald Trump's lawyer yesterday admitted the tycoon's planned £1bn golf resort would have "significant adverse effects" on the environment."

So it's a tragedy either way. Only the tragedy to the environment will last forever. And even the sub-super-rich may be flying a lot less as the environmental effects of their other enterprises and behaviors become unaffordable and perhaps too conspicuous for their health.

The golf course is only the sugar in this bitter drink. The gated community and 5-star hotel, from which Trump will derive the profits (not the locals - except those who are eager to work as hotel maids and in other menial capacity).

I think you will be paying a terrible price for the mere opportunity to grovel for tips - and perhaps, cultivate a charmingly quaint manner.

As for the environment being expendable, I wonder at what point the anti-environmentalists will cry 'hold, enough!' - and if, at that point, there will be anything left to save at all.

In environmental matters, all defeats are permanent, and all victories temporary.
8

Nit-Nat,

05/07/2008 02:18:55
Can I carry your bags sir, clean your toilet sir, make your bed sir, what club can I ready for you sir, very good sir.

Job creation SNP style, Trump Boulevard? Since when did we name Scottish streets after living Americans with no connection to the land the street is built on? The SNP are not Scottish, they are a parcel of rogues intent on selling Scotland for personal gain.
9

Willie Macleod,

Wick 05/07/2008 02:33:05

~#15 Ars Gratia Artis "Money for God's Sake"

Yes it is too late for redemption.
10

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/07/2008 02:38:13

Nit-Nat ~16,

You forgot!

'Can I Tie your,..'Shoe Lace',..'Sir',?

'Can I Wipe your Nose',.........'Sir,?

'Any more Tea',.................'Sir,?

Sir Trump!, must love it all!

But Don't get carried away!

The 'Sottish' People are NOT a,..'Walk Over' the Green!
11

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/07/2008 02:42:19

Unlike some of our,..'Politician's'!

Who will,..Do a,..'Sell-Out'!
12

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/07/2008 02:45:11

Goodnight, Sleep Tight! and,..

Don't let the 'Golf Green Bugs Bite'!


(cu ya all later)
13

Terence Sutherland,

Woodlawn, New York 05/07/2008 05:26:29
If the Scots turn this great offer down, it wouldn't be surprising that Donald Trump would turn to the Scots Celtic cousins to the west...Ireland, and build it there, thumbing his nose in the process.

Over the years that I've done business w/the Scots, it seems they sometimes have their Ostrich heads in the sand, oblivious to good, positive changes.

Yet it has been my business experience that the Scots can come over here, year-after-year to Tartan Day NY and reap all the financial rewards and NOT include we Yanks in the profits! Now that the shoe is no the other foot, let's hope that progress and sound economic development will NOT be denied!
14

East Coast Chick,

05/07/2008 05:41:31
A must read to understand the real Donald and his quest for success! Not to be read by the na sayer's out there in cyber space.

Out of the mouths of his babes

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/10610/

My best wishes to Scotland, what ever your decision may be....

15

somerferg,

perth 05/07/2008 05:44:32

#16 - oh how clever of you. Your comments are so insightful and intelligent. Are you by any chance the holder of a PhD?
16

East Coast Chick,

05/07/2008 05:59:16
#16

Way too go to promote us yanks to come across the pond and spend our rubbish money in Scotland. If you don't enjoy our company, then don't promote tourism. Personally, I'll be back because I have some very special relatives who appreciate my company.
17

Beth Boyle,

NY 05/07/2008 06:01:49
Saying its a tragedy???? Now that makes for real comedy. How arrogant is that? Donald you never fail to amuse. King of "Me" and bad taste you are! I suppose you think the sun will never again shine on the dunes with out your plastic posh playground? Oh Please...?
18

East Coast Chick,

05/07/2008 06:17:09
Beth for goodness sake, let the good people of Scotland make their own decision on this issue. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know how much you disdain the Donald. But you don't live in Scotland (I'm more then sure that a few folk over there are happy about that)

Kidding aside, you seem to be a well informed lady, but its not our decision to make. So fade into the background and stop trying to pound your distaste for this project into the heads of those who matter.

19

Beth Boyle,

NY 05/07/2008 06:39:27
East Coast Chick go back to the hen house and lay an egg!
20

Hamish Simpson,

Central Perk 05/07/2008 06:44:14
*27

Why do you care?
21

East Coast Chick,

05/07/2008 06:45:25
What ever you say Beth, your wish is my command.

22

Beth Boyle,

NY 05/07/2008 06:46:35
Thank you, if that be true put a sock in your pie hole.
23

Hamish Simpson,

Leith 05/07/2008 06:47:39

27

Sounds like you have an ironic surname?
24

Hamish Simpson,

Central perk 05/07/2008 06:49:15

30#

Why should she copy your antics from last night. I reckon your girlfriend will be jelous.
25

Beth Boyle,

NY 05/07/2008 06:51:44
Antics from last night? I have been married 28 years and you are stepping over the line, Hamish.
26

Hamish Simpson,

Just over the line 05/07/2008 06:54:32

I refer you to thread 30 - Looks over the line to me
27

East Coast Chick,

05/07/2008 06:58:33
Beth thank you for your last comment, it certainly shows just how much style, grace and respect you truly have 0=0

FYI, my nephew was murdered by his step mother when she shoved a sock in his pie hole 34 years ago, which killed him. Thank you for bringing this memory up again

28

Beth Boyle,

NY 05/07/2008 07:00:59
You said what ever I wished you would do so do it now and stop ranting like a fool.
29

Hamish Simpson,

Juet within the line 05/07/2008 07:06:42

Beth,

Tell me that you were not that "step mother"...........

I assume that you have lots of cats
30

Beth Boyle,

NY 05/07/2008 07:10:09
No Hamish, I don't have allot of cats. Are you married to that chick? I expect actually you are the same person posting under two names, LOL
31

Beth Boyle,

NY 05/07/2008 07:20:11
I thought so...
32

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 05/07/2008 07:44:06
Oh Beth, Beth, Beth. Still spouting anti-Trump rubbish I see.

Your views - as are EVERYONE'S on here - won't amount to a hill of beanz as WE do not have the final say....the Scottish Govt will have the final say.

If it is YES will you come over & link arms with Ford in a vain attempt to stop development?

What an image THAT conjures up...:-O

What the people of the NE Scotland want is NO concern of yours across the pond.

Now, once & for all, BEHAVE! :-)
33

Hamish Simpson,

Not the same person 05/07/2008 07:55:17

Sitting in E0 being the dinburgh not being: (i) married to the chick, or (ii) being the chick.

Married to 28 years - too a bunch of cats
34

dianne13 ,

aberdeenshire 05/07/2008 08:08:25
The Scottish gov should be very careful who they do business with their marketing of mythical Scottish ancestry to Americans will backfire.
Read some of the research by Hague about the right wing connections, such as those between with Alex Salmond and Trent Lott. Here is and extract form one article to give you some idea.

'The Scottish National Party raises support and maintains an office in the US, and its recruiting leaflets are circulated at Celtic fairs and events. Hague warned them: "Scottishness in the USA is tied up in a politics much further to the right than the SNP advocate for Scotland. Perhaps this could come back to haunt Scotland, especially as the feeling is that American Scots should have more say in Scottish affairs."

It is apparent that sections of the US far right...find a mythical version of Scottish history useful for their present political purposes.'

Trump has used this very angle -his application is about gaining a foothold in Scotland for politcal purposes, demonstrated by conquering nature and people.
Reject it now or live with the ugly consequences.
35

Beth Boyle,

NY 05/07/2008 08:11:06
Richard you just might deserve the Donald, Hee hee! Good night! Its very late here.
36

jerrymanders,

Blowin' in the wind 05/07/2008 08:37:07
Sand dunes are formed by wind. The North East coast is windy. The North East coast if often foggy. It is seldom that warm, even in summer. I know, I lived there for 10 years. The Americans don't particularly like links courses, they prefer pitch and putt target golf with lush green, wide, fairways and NO WIND. So why would an American build the "World's greatest golf course" there? There are enough windy courses for the locals already. Housing?
37

donald,

glasgow 05/07/2008 08:45:58
He's be quicker applying to the Treaty of Rome for permission to rebuild Hadrian's Wa'.

Whit aboot the burdz?
38

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 05/07/2008 09:06:03
#40 Richard Taylor:
"the Scottish Govt will have the final say. "
You could not be more wrong. Firstly, there is no such thing as "the Scottish government". There is only one government in the UK and it is located at the Mother of Parliaments in Westminster. What we have in Scotland is a devolved regional UK administration with limited powers of administration.

Scotland is not a state; it has no sovereign territory, no army, navy or airforce, no independent currency. The executive is allowed to make legislation on a limited number of devolved issues such as health and education - but on the big issues of State: taxation, foreign policy, defence - it hsa no powers. Ergo, there is no Scottish government; sovereigh states with defined territories, law-making power and defence forces - they have governments. The words 'Scottish Government' are PR spin for the SNP devolved, minority administration.

Now, why will the devolved Scottish Executive not have the final world on this housing scheme? The coastal area in question is a designated SSSI - under UK Law. Sites of Special Scientific Interest cannot just be built on at the whim of local councils, nor even of devolved administrations. If Salmond gives the go-ahead for this he will find himself in the European Court over the environmental legal case - and European Law transcends British law. Non-starter.
39

dianne13 ,

aberdeenshie 05/07/2008 09:10:08
#45
thats probably next on his list!
Lets face it, it's old, dirty and a bit of a mess- the Donald could build a bonny new one with the name 'Trump' on top of it in huge solid gold letters that can be seen from the moon!



40

PJ Walker,

East Lothian 05/07/2008 09:12:11
They could be doing Trump and his backers a favour.
Has everyone forgotten we're in the midst of one of the worst credit crunches in recent memory?
With Loch Lomond GC now slipping into receivership (again) and new luxury clubs like the Renaissance struggling to find anyone willing to put down £50K as a debenture, big D may get out of this one unscathed.
Scotland has more than enough high-end golf courses
41

11+failed,

the pans 05/07/2008 09:16:11
Seems this thread has descended into petty squabbling by the anti anything brigade.
By the end of the year all the posturing and posing should be over Trump will be able to get on with this super, if unnecessarily delayed, project.
42

brownlie,

05/07/2008 09:22:37
It is interesting to see the amount of concern for a hitherto unknown, and unvisited, stretch of coast.

I did not see the same amount of concern regarding the devastation of miles of Lewis peatland, and the devastation of the environment in Amec's plans for wind-farms in Lewis.

Of course, a brash American millionaire was not involved and one of Amec's directors is Brian Wilson, an ex-Labour minister.
43

C. RAB.BIT,

Dunfermline 05/07/2008 09:27:44
4 GRAHAM EDINBURGH

Spot on Scotland has miles of coast,so why not build it somewhere else.How about on the Forth with views of the bridges there is space between the rusting nuclear submarines and the sewage works or Dunbar with its cement works and power station.There are many more sites of this outstanding beauty to choose from so why a site which is an involves an SSSI. Secondly you do not build championship golf courses you build golf courses and hope they are good enough for someone to want to play a championship on.
44

brownlie,

05/07/2008 09:48:21
46 Tweedmouth

Who signed the agreement that means European Law transcends British Law and, in your opinion, is that to Scotland's benefit?
45

AntiPCman,

05/07/2008 10:04:16
The paper presented at the ISC planning committee was without precedent. The first 22 pages said No as against a raft of policies. The 23rd page said Yes because of the mitigating circumstances of economic development. The applicant with a single house in the countryside and a shed for his business is turned down regularly with the same mitigation but the Trump one is not - there is no differences in policy.
One, therefore, has to ask why. It is because it is an important magnet for future investment for the N.East as oil and gas recedes but it is not consistent planning and should be recognised that it is not fair to diminish the single applicant when he has a strong case because in fact he/she is far more sustainable in the long term.
Trump did not follow the normal and recognised pattern in this application - he was favoured - I am not condemning that but the reaction to Martin Ford was not proportional as he was following policy.
The economic argument is flawed in terms of viability without the private housing and the 1400 jobs created is a misnomer when the N.East has the lowest unemployment in Scotland - 0.7%. N o local people will be employed - it will be foreigh transient works.
If Trump wins and I think he will, I am not sure that it will go ahead in the financial situation the world is in. Trump will blame delays and walk away.
46

Unimpressed one,

05/07/2008 10:05:35
'A spokesman for the organisations said: "All we want now is for ministers to consider what is best for Scotland, not simply for the applicant, and to stand by their repeatedly stated strategic goals of delivering sustainable economic growth that puts this country's environment at its core.'

But when the chips are down, all sensible people will put the economy before the environment every time.
47

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 05/07/2008 10:06:45
Colin Boyd demonstrates well how former Lord Advocates can be stupid as well.

Trumpty's scheme is just environment destroying destroying, hideously disneyesque, crass, cheap rubbish (like all his other tasteless edifices).

Win or lose the inquiry environmentalists everywhere will join forces to waste as much of Trumpty's time and money until he just gives up and moves on.
48

Determination and Commitment,

Aberdeen 05/07/2008 10:14:14
Well said 50, how many other wind farm or eco friendly developments become a blot on the fabulous Scottish enviroment.

As for those who say that the enviromental impact will last for ever. I don't see global warming slowing down, so sometime in the future maybe those areas of SSSI will be underwater and you will complain that the government failed to do something about it.

If you let Trump build his course, surely he will invest money in protecting it from rising sea levels and in doing so save the precious SSSI.
49

Astarte,

Giffnock 05/07/2008 10:14:29
..who will rid us of this troublesome priest?
50

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 05/07/2008 10:16:05
#56 Exactly how will Trumpty "protect" the SSSI from rising sea levels when, if given permission, he would have already destroyed it?
51

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 05/07/2008 10:28:49
Night night Beth! Sweet (Trump) dreams!
52

Douglas,

Bathgate 05/07/2008 10:33:46
With potential 'luxury accomodation' lying derelict in St Andrews, the home of golf, what makes enthusiasts for the Trump project believe that their course will attract sufficient numbers of wealthy golfers to make it viable?
Are we sure that it's not some dinner party boast that's now taken on a life of it's own so Mr T will not lose face?
53

Balliol II,

Dunbar 05/07/2008 10:38:05
Your report says the major objectors were the RSPB Scotland and the Scottish Wildlife Trust. Were SNH objecting and if not why not? SNH's predecessor the Nature Conservancy were responsible for the original designation as an SSSI (Site of Special Scientific Interest) so SNH should be arguing for its continued protection. Have they, did they?
54

A Crofter,

Western Isles 05/07/2008 10:44:42
Good Morning, Trumplickers!

Now we have m'Lord Boyd joining in the brown-nosing - how much did Golffinger bung him to spout such palpable drivel?

BTW, Brownlie, you forgot to mention former trade minister Richard Caborn MP, who now also lobbies for Amec at £75K a year. The main difference between the rejected Lewis windfarm and Trumpland is that one might have done something to reduce global carbon emissions, whilst the latter would have entirely the opposite effect. The fact that EU legislation scuppered Amec just proves that true independence for Scotland is an unachievable myth.
55

Toast,

05/07/2008 10:49:19
Given Trumps precarious finances this resort will not happen as outlined,the time shares will be built and all the highly profitable pieces,but due to the credit squeeze the eco friendly proposals will be unsustainable.
56

Senga Jean,

05/07/2008 10:58:11
There is a New Clearance Culture in Scotland. Its endeavour is to sustain the empty Straths and Bens of the last clearance. The economics are not ostensibly those of greed but an assertion of supposed moral superiority. I am better at saving the planet than you? The reality in a water rich environment is that golf courses save the planet and all its little creatures much better than the simple abandonment to erosion and despoilment by the uncaring. What is the anti's real agenda? The welfare of ordinary working folk it ain't
57

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 05/07/2008 11:02:21
#64 "What is the anti's real agenda? The welfare of ordinary working folk it ain't"

This will be the "welfare" of the cheap immigrant workers (both legal and illegal) brought in to toil in the new Trumpty Towers that you're so concerned about will it?
58

overton,

balmedie 05/07/2008 11:02:41
The sooner we have the go ahead for this opportunity the sooner we can put the embarrassing antics of the (soon to disappear of the face of the earth) idiot Lib Dems behind us.
It is good to note that Nicol Stephen resigned after he belated realised how he was used by the minority of local objectors.
59

ppink,

05/07/2008 11:05:08
#46
Tweemouth.

You have obviously taken a great deal of pleasure demonstrating that the people of Scotland, under the current arrangements, are second class serfs & subjects of England. Thank you for reminding us of these unpleasant facts.

Not quite true of course, in theory it is a voluntary union and Scotland but for 300 years had all these privileges, but it practice you are right, the people of Scotland have been under the English hammer since they signed up to the Union.


However the people always have power and all the people of Scotland have to do to return to their sovereign state is to vote yes in the forthcoming referendum in 2010.

Then goodbye Big Brother!
60

Gunn,

05/07/2008 11:36:45
Some observations:

1 This is NOT just a concern for those in Scotland.

a) It has much wider implications since what happens here could set a precedence that might affect anywhere in the UK.
b) Anything that is an SSSI "belongs" to a much wider population than those who live near or on it - it belongs to the entire nation and, dare I say, beyond even the UK borders because it is of ... special scientific interest! If this is allowed, what price all the other very special SSSIs in the UK? Will they be bull-dozed too just because of the "economic benefits"?

2 We have enjoyed the benefits of this wonderful example of Nature, the value of which surpasses money. Economic/financial interests are not "everything". Money is not everything. Quality of Life is everything and it does not depend on money. We have done without this monstrosity up until now and I dare say we can do without it for another few hundred years.
61

,

05/07/2008 12:00:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
62

Tom Cambeul,,

USA 05/07/2008 12:03:07
I plan to arrive in Scotland on Monday and do hope to see the Aberdeenshire coast once more, before the trump bulldozers flatten the landscape. Then "ole wavy wig" will want a knighthood.
63

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 05/07/2008 12:32:21
If it's a debate between improving the lot of the local people and improving the lot of the local lichens, I'm with the people.
64

The Ghost of Sir William Arrol,

The Ghost of Sir William Arrol 05/07/2008 12:41:19
I think Trump will get his fingers burned on this one if it goes ahead. Aviation, as a result of diminishing oil supplies and ever increasing prices, will become a thing of the past. There will be few tourists!
65

Buttress,

05/07/2008 13:26:09
66 Overton - given that he says his reasons had nothing to do with this, after Trump made bizarre claims yesterday, why do you say this? Have you discussed it with him personally? Or is this more fairy tales?
66

Rennie,

Upstate NY 05/07/2008 13:30:15
Same old story, the rural folk are always idiots who need a rich outsider to come in and tell them what to do for their own good. And if locals resent it, it's just because of bias and ignorance. (Sarcasm). So the question is, if local residents had suggested building a golf resort, would they have been taken seriously or gotten this far?
67

Mac Vicar,

Nantucket MA, USA 05/07/2008 14:12:42
There is no need to cave in to Trump’s endeavours all of which I’m certain have nothing to do with anything but his own personal greed and huge ego. Look at the time and money he wasted battling a female celebrity for her not too favourable comments about his hair. That sort of individual and his business interests are best left in New York where they are used to financial bullying tactics not in Scotland.
68

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 05/07/2008 14:38:32
#69 I can assure you Neil that us "eco-fascist parasites" won't be going anywhere. We will draw this out for years and years until Trumpty gets so sick of us wasting his time and his bank's money that he moves on. Simple fact.
69

zigzag,

05/07/2008 15:05:14
Lord Boyd said: "I accept that the development will have significant adverse effects on the qualities for which the area has been designated but I submit that these are clearly outweighed by economic benefits of national importance."

Looks like The Parcels of Rogues are still in the Nation.
Economics benefits outweigh? Now that,s a novel thought. In the name of the american dollar all will be well in the world and gods' heaven, it might also make enough moolah for the Donald to afford a more decent hair piece.
My question is what happens to St Andrews and Carnoustie in future when its time to pick a course for any PGA Championship games? Will the american Donald carry more weight and prevail for all future PGA venues, no questions asked. I think so but then thats just me.
70

Beth Boyle,

NY 05/07/2008 15:07:16
#42 This I understand well and it worries me. Salmond has been courting America's far right.
71

ScotLJM,

Michigan 05/07/2008 15:20:02
#72 The ghost.....I would not bet that the economy will be the demise of Trump's playground, you underestimate how many super rich folks there are in this world. They will still be flying in on their private jets, fuel costs no issue.

A case in point, I worked for a billionaire shopping mall developer, who among other things, owned Sotheby's in London. Well, he went to prison for shady dealings, and while he was there, the local airport extended their runway to accommodate the big corporate jets of his business visitors.

THEY live in a different world than we peasants.
72

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 05/07/2008 15:25:14
#79 But there are many more of "we peasants" so if we get together we can make their lives a living hell.

Most billionairres don't actually have much cold cash to their name (Trumpty only has a small "lottery win" worth of his own cash to invest) - they just have huge bank loans. So us environmentalists will turn the pressure on their lenders to make their pips squeak.
73

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 05/07/2008 15:26:17
I don't get it. Why is there so much antipathy and resentment towards a plan that will bring increased investment, jobs and other economic benefits into an area that badly needs them?
74

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 05/07/2008 15:31:02
#81 Because Trumpty has a case history of leaving his business partners and projects bankrupted and he cares not a jot for the environment - just his personal wallet.

In Trumpty's little head everything that makes Scotland worth keeping and visiting is just there for him to pimp.

Jobs? Don't make me laugh. It would be built by cheap legal and illegal immigrant labour and staffed by the same. Cash cash cash. You'll see one real Scottish job if you are very very lucky.
75

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 05/07/2008 15:37:00
#82, even one is better than none! There seems to be so much hatred and emotion about this man, and so little calm and objective analysis of his proposal. Doesn't Scotland need more investment, more jobs, and a better future for its people in the areas in which they live?
76

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 05/07/2008 15:43:43
#83 Absolutely we need real jobs but concreting over Scotland's best natural assets to offer up just another tasteless American disneyesque landscape is not the way to do it.

When every tourist coming here tells you how much they love and cherish Scotland's environment, culture and history then why not listen to them? Why tear it all up and offer a Trmp Tower artificial mess instead? (And I haven't even given the moral argument yet about leaving our children a decent natural environment).
77

mollyfurie,

California 05/07/2008 15:45:46
Golf courses good for the environment? Well maybe in Scotland, with all the rain, but here in the Southwest, they are huge water wasters, and heavy pesticide and herbicide users. In Hawaii, it is dangers to golf in hot weather - the chemicals have caused people to lose consciousness.

But you know that none of this is about golf. And it certainly isn't about providing good jobs or economic development for Scotland. It's about taking protected, public land and providing luxury accommodations for the very rich.
78

Susan Caroline Periano,

Pottstown, PA USA 05/07/2008 15:51:37
The planning for the golf course will be in partnership with environmental leadership, so no beauty will be lost. The economic advantages for Scotland far outweigh maintaining the wilderness. As for setting a precedent for SSSI and future applications elsewhere, there will have to be an added bottom line to keep this proposal unique to disalow copycatting. Mr. Trump maintains all his properties impeccably. With his governance and insistence on perfection, this will be a jewel for Scotland, not an aberation.
79

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 05/07/2008 16:05:36
#84, > When every tourist coming here tells you how much they love and cherish Scotland's environment, culture and history then why not listen to them? <

Are Menie Links much visited by tourists from abroad? I'd hardly have described them as one of Scotland's leading tourist attractions.
80

Beth Boyle,

NY 05/07/2008 16:33:06
The Silly Trump on Donald Trump on International Relations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC42lWzsbv8&feature=related
81

W Smith,

Middle East 05/07/2008 17:08:32
#86
Well said.

The anti-Trump seem to forget these two following projects;

1) Aviemore - what a tacky mess. Start with the prison ...I mean Stakis Hotel. Looks like Pyongyang, North Korean architecture.

2) On to Dundee waterfront. Same built on the cheap Stakis Hotel.

Surprise surprise, same concrete structure, exact same design as Aviemore - built with 'subsidies'.

On to the public swimming pool - another concrete box structure.

On to the 'radical design' of the Apex Hotel. For 'radical' read rectangular box like structure.

On to.....wait for it..... Tescos built right on one of the most scenic spots of any city in the UK.

A RIGHT FRIGGIN MESS.

I doubt if Donald Trump could trump the Dundee Labour Pary's mess at Dundee's waterfront.

ITS CRIMINAL.
82

W Smith,

Middle East 05/07/2008 17:27:03
I think Colin Boyd should take photos of Dundee's waterfront, including arial photos, and ask his opponents "What the **** do you call this then, eh?"
83

Singlepoint,

Fife 05/07/2008 17:49:10
It is true that Scotland needs investment and indeed facility for any kind of leisure activity always works in any free, economically sound society, but it does not need such as Donald wants to provide. What Donald wholly wants is not shown but what can be gathered is that he primarily needs ownership of the coast. If Donald is successful then down the line he will seek to build a marina and deep moorings which as things are he knows he cannot get but likely will if he first establishes a successful and grand business ‘in the national interest’. If today the powers that be refuse him access to the coast or otherwise give him the dunes but make it clear that he will never get permission to own a ‘port’ then he will be off back to his real home with his true colours in full view.
84

The Tin Man,

Over the McRainbow 05/07/2008 17:50:26
Dear, oh dear.... an entire Trumpton thread without anyone spouting virtriolic hatred towards Mr Ford. What's wrong with you all? According to many previous posters Mr Ford was To Blame for Everything (whatever Everything was). That, and he probably eats yoghurt, which apparently is Bad.
85

Gunn,

05/07/2008 18:24:53
Mikko, It's no use arguing. Urban Gorilla is another affected by Money Disorder, perhaps another Thatcher Child of the 1980's, one more who values people and places by the amount of £££/$$$ is their/its pocket. People as these cannot appreciate the value and pleasure that can be found in a field of grass unless it's been cut down like a skin head, been rid of all wild flowers (that's "weeds" to you, Urban G), no mole hills and has white balls running over it towards little holes with flags sticking out of them, which won't be rabbit burrows. The pleasures of Nature are infinitely richer than a golf course - you know it, I know it, Urban Gorillas and other parasites that feed off the destruction of the environment just don't get it.
86

McGinty,

05/07/2008 18:30:34
'it has resulted, in my submission, in an unprecedented level of scrutiny for an application' About time, but even so, maybe not enough. If there's any consistency, let's hope the same starts to happen to areas prone to flooding, Tesco's etc. Also what kind of nation gives easy permission for carbuncles yet restoration, heritage and social projects get walloped. If Trump hadn't behaved like such an arrogant git right through this, he would have had more support and had his application dealt with quicker.
87

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 05/07/2008 18:34:53
#93, I'm more interested in people and their families than I am in preserving every field of grass. Better a Scotland where young people can find work than one in which people have to move away from where they were born and brought up if they want to make a living. But you're probably the sort of person who thinks the Highlands were greatly improved by the Clearances!
88

Beth Boyle,

NY 05/07/2008 18:53:15
Urban Guerrilla was trained by George W. Bush and is a Scottish operative for the Bush administration in the UK.
89

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 05/07/2008 18:55:00
#46 Tweedmouth said, "If Salmond gives the go-ahead for this he will find himself in the European Court over the environmental legal case."

Unfortunately that is not the case. As you correctly state, the coastal area in question is a Site of Special Scientific Interest, designated under UK legislation. It is NOT a European Site (such as a Special Conservation Area or a Special Protection Area for wild birds). Thus the European Court has no obvious locus in this case. If the area was a European Site, Trump wouldn't stand a chance, but protection for SSSIs is relatively weak.
90

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 05/07/2008 19:07:29
#96, don't you want young people to have the chance of employment and a decent future in the area where they grew up?
91

E300,

05/07/2008 19:27:17
Seems the average number of American visitors to the Menie Dunes in the three years before Trump's involvement was zero. The number of University geology field group visits to Menie other than from Aberdeen was also zilch.
92

Richard Taylor,

05/07/2008 19:31:21
Good God...Mikko, Beth & Ford chaining themselves to the nearest sand dune! That'll scare the gulls!!!
:-O

Besides, the dunes hopefully will whisk them miles to the north & out of earshot! ;-)
93

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 05/07/2008 20:40:05
46 Tweedmouthy

"The Scottish Government" - a term which has a general consensus in Holyrood amongst most MSPs - WILL DEFINITELY have the final say, no matter your meaningless rhetoric.
94

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 05/07/2008 20:41:51
91 Singlepoint

A PORT??
What are you talking about? Please make yourself aware of the facts before blurbing nonsense.