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Sunday, 22nd November 2009

Peat threat to Flower of Scotland

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Published Date: 04 June 2007
IN HIS first weekend in office new SFA president George Peat wasted no time in making an impact, calling yesterday for a new anthem to replace Flower of Scotland, which he described as "a dirge" and "embarrassing".
"I think it's a total dirge and we need a new one," Peat told Radio Five Live. "A couple of years ago I met a member of the Tartan Army who was a songwriter and I challenged him to come up with a better version. I would love someone to do that now.

"Personally I would favour a more stirring anthem than the one we have now. When the song is sung at Hampden it is reasonable but when we go abroad it's embarrassing. It's played at about a third of the speed it should be and the fans end up four or five bars ahead."

Peat's proposal seemed yesterday to win the cautious backing of First Minister Alex Salmond. "I would be in favour of a referendum of the Tartan Army to let them decide," said Salmond.

Independent MSP Margo MacDonald, meanwhile, echoed some of Peat's criticisms of Flower of Scotland and suggested reverting to the previous anthem, Scotland the Brave. "Flower of Scotland can be sung in many ways, including by some people who aren't in total command of their senses," MacDonald told the BBC Politics Show. "I don't think we can get rid of it even if we tried."

But Peat's comments provoked an immediate and spirited defence of Flower of Scotland by members of the Tartan Army. Tam Ferry, spokesman for the Association of Tartan Army Clubs, claimed that his comments indicate that Peat is out of touch with the rank and file of the national team's support.

"I really don't know where he's coming from - I would say that 95 per cent of fans are in favour of keeping Flower of Scotland," said Ferry. "What would we replace it with? It wasn't so long ago we had God Save the Queen. When we had Scotland the Brave most fans didn't know the words - they would just end up singing 'nah-nah-nah-nah-nah'."

Ferry added that the current anthem can work well when led by a singer or singers. For the recent European Championship qualifier against Georgia and at last year's match against the Faroe Islands the song's composer, Ronnie Browne of The Corries, led the singing from the pitch. "That worked brilliantly," said Ferry, "and even with the Three Tenors, it still worked well.

"As a Scotland supporter I am not aware of any opposition to Flower of Scotland," continued Ferry. "The fans love it and it gets passion going, although the one thing I would say is that sometimes we struggle to synchronise the music and the words. The rugby guys always manage it brilliantly, so maybe we should get lessons from the rugby guys. But, until we get our own national anthem, I think we should stick with it."

Peat's view is supported, however, by one of Scotland's leading musicians, Alun Woodward. Woodward, of Glasgow record label Chemikal Underground, and formerly of The Delgados, said that a new football anthem was "entirely appropriate and long overdue". He added: "Flower of Scotland is about one country's relationship with another, but we have to stop looking at our big cousin and something that happened hundreds of years ago. Scotland the Brave is also ridiculous - it invokes a shortbread-tin image of a Scotland that never existed."

Woodward was the driving force behind Ballads of the Book, this year's acclaimed collaboration between Scotland's leading writers and musicians, and he suggested that a similar approach could be taken to a new football anthem. "Musicians thrive when they're challenged, and to write an anthemic, stirring and direct song - that is not out of reach. Perhaps Alasdair Gray could write the lyrics - and I would be happy to write the music," he said.

"I think it would be phenomenal and entirely appropriate to come up with a new anthem," continued Woodward. "Just as long as they don't get the guy from Runrig to do it."

The Anthem debate


FLOWER OF SCOTLAND

Written by the late Roy Williamson of The Corries, it commemorates the Scottish victory over England at Bannockburn. Particularly popular among rugby fans. SFA followed SRU's lead by playing it before games from 1997.

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN

The UK national anthem was played before Scotland games until the late 1970s and was nearly always met with a chorus of boos. The jeering convinced the SFA to think again.

SCOTLAND THE BRAVE

Introduced by the SFA after God Save The Queen was dropped but later replaced by Flower of Scotland. Is still the anthem of the Scottish Commonwealth Games team.



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1

kguffg,

a 04/06/2007 01:04:01

plenty of other good songs, eg:

Loch Lomond.
A man's a man.
Auld Lang Syne.
Rose of Allendale.

etc etc etc

2

nearlyneurotic,

TweenFrenchVinyards`nGovanScrapyard !! 04/06/2007 01:52:16

Sounds like another embarrassement to the SFA.

Should go the same way as John McBeth-sacked,then let someone who has footballing issues at the top of his agenda have a go.

George Peat says,"fans end up four or five bars ahead,......ffs ,what is it an effin music lesson?

The only bars fans are interested in are of the watering hole variety!
Hopefully thats where Peat had just come from,it would give him some excuse to hide behind.

Maybe if someone told him that FIFA and UEFA are watching the administration of our game in Scotland like hawks, George Peat might sit up and look as though he`s interested in taking his position seriously.

Five bars behind indeed...dearie dearie me.........

3

Colin P,

04/06/2007 02:41:18

I've an easy solution for George. Someone give him 100 copies of Flower of Scotland to take to away games. Maybe then the fans won't be ahead.
Really, maybe I should send the SFA my CV....lol

4

sing tony,

04/06/2007 03:33:19

tbh i agree, its no good for a football team and like woodword said it gives a daft shortbread tin image.

theres plenty of good scottish musicians these days so surely it wouldnt be too hard to get a new anthem with a bit more flair

5

nearlyneurotic,

TweenFrenchVinyards`nGovanScrapyard !! 04/06/2007 04:00:53

CV?

If the appointment of Gordon Smiths anything to go by, the SFA throw all applicants C.V`s in the bin,then give the job to the person they had first thought of.

I wonder if Smith was asked at interview what he thought our song should be and was he asked to belt out a few lines of it.
You know...just to show he could go with the flow
inat,no.....and keep up the SFA`s growing notoriety.

No wonder folk are laughin,an absolute joke that they are!

6

Saltire,

Thailand 04/06/2007 05:41:19

Does Scotland need a new anthem? As that well-known sage (??!!) once said "maybe's aye, maybe's naw".
But if we do get one then let's just remember that a nation is not all about the future. The character and pride is derived from history and a successful future is boosted by a strength of character and national (as well as personal) pride.
So to reject history as part of an anthem would be a big mistake.
Surely the greatest mistake ever was the promotion of God Save the Queen as a UK national anthem when it contains "And like a torrent rush, Rebellious Scots to crush".
And we all used to sing it - Scots included.
Where else would any nation promote its own negative image in this way?
A United Kingdom? With those words in it's national anthem - I don't think so.
Never has been, never will be.

7

FOOTBALLAGAINSTRACISMEUROPE,

04/06/2007 05:53:10

6,

Could not agree more mate.Imagine being an athlete at the Olympics representing Britain and you are Scottish and your finest moment on the podium is listening to the anthem,your anthem aswell that includes a line that rerers to killing your countrymen.

Incredible

8

fatboybryce,

elsewhere 04/06/2007 06:07:08

it's about time we had our real national anthem played, let's hear it for "500 miles"

9

big big fun,

here 04/06/2007 06:25:19

does anyone know if woodward and peat are related or maybe in the same lodge ?

10

whateverthename,

Avignon 04/06/2007 06:36:12

I still remember back in 1999 at the Stade de France for the Rugby we had the last verse over and the band were still on the first one, a total mess. Another time I think they got the wrong tune totally. They probably played the B-Side of the 45 record. Maybe that's just the French or maybe I was just pissed.

11

Albert Kidd's 86 allstars,

Melbourne 04/06/2007 06:44:18

What a load of cobblers... Who on earth actually wants the anthem changed from something we all know the words to? Given a choice between a song written by the foremost traditional composer the country has had for the last three hundred years or some pile of mince written by a failed pop star, i know which i would choose.
Flower of Scotland stirs the blood in the way it should with pride in history and hope for the future.

So its based on a battle? So is The Stars and Stripes. Besides which, that singular event in 1314 shaped our wee country in more ways than anything else ever has, and it's a good way to celebrate our 'coming of age' as a nation, and to lead us into the modern version of battle, now is it?
This dafty needs to stop thinking in these Gauche P.C. ways and understand that a national anthem should always be about identity. Our I.D., like every other country on Earth, comes from defining ourselves against our neighbours, not some rambling tosh from one of the leading exponents of self promotion and limited talent this country has ever produced...
Flower of Scotland MUST stay...

12

Scoop in the City,

04/06/2007 07:08:11

Peat is absolutely correct - FoS is a dirge and should be replaced with something that people can sing and is at least slightly uplifting. Irish rugby did it for other reasons and came up with 'Shoulder to Shoulder'. Surely Scottish songwriters could come up with something as good.

PS: Highland Cathedral would be pretty good.

13

WTH,

04/06/2007 07:12:46

Why fix it if it isn't broken?

Smith got a job on a handshake. I wonder how old is his mother is?

14

Scoop in the City,

04/06/2007 07:19:36

Hey Albert. Some months ago - I told you that the problems at Easter Road were still simmering. You told me to shut up and stop stirring until they did. Well wakey, wakey - arise and smell the coffee, it has started to come out what really went on and is still going on under the 'leadership' of the one that loves himself. Pity that the Hibsman has deemed not to cover the story at all. They may argue that it was another paper's story - but would they have done the same if it had been about Romanov? No chance. Fortunately for you, the web version of the daily retard does not have the full story. Let me know if you want the gory details.

Some S**** in Leith

15

Big T Jambo,

04/06/2007 07:41:21

Good spin by the SFA. Stop everyone talking about McBeth by opening up a debate on Flower of Scotland.

Wake up folks. The McBeth issue should not be allowed to be swept under the carpet, but I believe the Scotsman and all other papers will run this story all week, effectively burying the McBeth gaffe.

16

Gusto,

04/06/2007 07:43:31

Well, Runrig have a very stirring song called - appropriately "ALBA", and is in praise of the nation. The chorus has one word - Alba
But of course Mr. "I want to make my mark" Peat is becoming more of an embarressment already than The Flower ever was.
Er... one problem, ALBA is a Gaelic song, and we cant have a national anthem in our native language can we?.

17

SammyTheTammy,

04/06/2007 07:43:40

My god has this man got his proritys wrong!!! There is nothing wrong with Flower of Scotland, however there is plenty wrong with the league structure in our country and with the desperate lack of facilities! So Peat get on with some serious work and if the SFA have money to chuck at a songwriter then why not hand it to each member club for youth developement and facilities!!!

FFS SFA!!!!!!!!!!

18

sing tony,

04/06/2007 08:01:33

difference between the stars and stripes and the flower of scotland is that the americans kpet their freedom where as we just got humped later on. so basically the song tells about a proud moment in history but chooses to ignore what happened aferward...

19

emo,

04/06/2007 08:07:11

maybe peat is halfways right. keep the song and get a pop idol type thing going where we get new fans able to hold a note.

if we need anything it is new sfa people as the likes of peat are an embarressment.

was he not given a position with someone like queens park just to keep him with the sfa after his business acumen failed to prevent airdrie from going under.

i guess airdrie went down while peat was trying to get a new badge for the jersey cos the old one was rubbish.

20

Number 1 Hun,

Hungerford 04/06/2007 08:20:48

Who gives a sh't whats played before the games.
The team is garbage anyway.

21

&Larrsonfixestheradio,

04/06/2007 08:25:19

I remember this being an issue in 1979 before the vote for devolution. Ina competition ran by the Daily Record I think the eventual winner was "Send in the clowns"

22

MrAngry,

04/06/2007 08:41:34

"When we had Scotland the Brave most fans didn't know the words - they would just end up singing 'nah-nah-nah-nah-nah'."

Then learn the words!

23

hendybhoy,

2 in a row 04/06/2007 08:49:20

Flower Of Scotland is a great anthem, especially when Someone Proper is Singing it, I mind Donnie Munro Singing it Before the Italy Game in 2005, never a Better Rendition been sung at Hampden, but the one that really gets me going is the 1990 Scotland vs England At the Rugby. Everytime i watch footage of that it makes the hairs stand on my back

24

RossM,

How about.... 04/06/2007 08:52:45

Highland Cathedral?

25

DaisyDy,

Tayside 04/06/2007 09:17:56

I like Highland Cathedral but I really think Scotland should manage a tune of its own!

Scotland has thousands of great tunes and songs, the great problem is that most Scots know very few of them because our famous Scottish cringe means they are rarely taught in schools. What other country believes that teaching kids their own history and culture is somehow 'wrong' 'parochial' and 'inward-looking'?

26

Media 1,

cape town and stockbridge 04/06/2007 09:23:57

We should have an anthem which is PRO SCOTTISH as opposed to ANTI ENGLISH..

Lets celebrate Scotland as opposed to singing about some 700 year old battle. Our petty failure to get over that past iis more embarrassing than their constant utterings of 1966.

Lets get a new anthem!

27

Saltire,

Thailand 04/06/2007 09:29:21

Ok let's have a competition to see who can come up with the funniest national anthem link.
At least that should brighten a Monday morning.
For a start how about "Argentina" or "Don't Cry For Me Argentina" - whatever you want to call it. :-)

28

Lochinvar,

Edinburgh 04/06/2007 09:30:34

Of course it's a dirge. We Scots love dirges and greetin' and feeling downtrodden. While we're on the subject,next time we qualify for the World Cup Finals (No! I'm being serious) I think we should capture the mood by having Leonard Cohen sing the World Cup song. That would be right cheery eh no?!...OH flower of Scotland dah, dah, dee, dee....

29

yawning,

04/06/2007 09:46:20

Highland Cathedral is a brilliant song and should be made the National Anthem.

Flower of Scotland is a dirge , even the words , if you actually think for a second are depressing , its all about how crap we are now and when will we see ....bollocks to that celebrate the now !

30

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 04/06/2007 09:48:22

13

WTH, how dare you suggest that freemasonry is involved in the appointment of Gordon Smith. You are being ridiculous.

PS It's not his mother's age you fool, it's his grannie's.

31

AJ fi Fife,

Fife 04/06/2007 10:24:28

Sammy the Tammy is right, this bozo Peat has bigger problems facing Scottish fitba, than choosing a new song!! Is he another executive parasite, in the post to fill his boots!!!

Nothing wrong wi' Flower o' Scotland, it does the trick!!!!

32

Stephen101,

A Scottish Song? 04/06/2007 10:32:30

Good tune, but does it really matter that it was written by a German?

Does Peat not have something better to do with his time?

I would have thought getting his masonic regalia in order would have been more useful in preparation for board meetings - Gordon Smith style.

33

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 04/06/2007 10:53:12

32

Stephen101, your comments about freemasonry do you a disservice. Gordon Smith is obviously the right man for the job. The fact that he is a real Rangers man, while very welcome, is totally irrelevant.

34

kendo,

04/06/2007 12:06:08

"It's over and done wi'" by The Proclaimers.
For those Scots who think we're shit it can be read as an apology for what is about to unfold. For those who weren't embarrassed by our 1978 pre WC fanfare, they can read it as a positive-overly-confident-in-yer-face taunt to the opposition.
And, for the rest it would indicate the end of the ridiculous round of nonesensical speculation preceding the game.
Or perhaps 'Mary's Wedding'

35

Mavro,

On a Moonbeam 04/06/2007 12:14:04

Saltire, go and learn your history! The "rebellious Scots" part of the National Anthem refers to that tiny minority of Scots (basically some Highlanders) who followed the foreign Pretender Prince Charlie. It refers to those Scots who were rebels - and whom the vast majority of Scots chased out of their towns as they straggled through them in defeat. It doesn't refer to ALL Scots (except by those mischief-makers like you)

Gusto, Gaelic is NOT Scotland's "native language"! It was the tongue of an area of the Highlands. Lowland Scots spoke SCOTS, a branch of the original English language. If James 6th had stayed in Edinburgh when he succeeded Elizabeth, the "Queen's English" would have been full of words like "wee" or "bairn" or "snell"etc

36

Simon_Wallace,

04/06/2007 12:38:18

How a song that includes the stirring words "But we can still rise now, and be a nation again!" is described as a dirge is ridiculous.

Anyone who heard the rendition by ex-Corrie Ronnie Browne will know it's the popular choice. (Can we hope for the Proclaimers to be asked to perform it at the Italy game?). Let's see anyone describe that as a dirge!

And can we bury the old "oh it's celebrating fighting a neighbour" keich? The Welsh national anthem talks about "stern warriors... bleeding for freedom", the Irish have the "Soldier's Song" ffs. La Marseillaise mentions throats being slit and fighting tyrants.

If you want a nicey nicey song to sing that won't upset anyone cos we're all lovely lovely, why not hum the theme from River City, or better, the what's the story, Balamory.

Leave Flower of Scotland alone!

37

Scotland world cup victory,

all over the place 04/06/2007 12:49:07

#28, excellent post, no more to be added.

Cheers

38

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 04/06/2007 12:59:00

36

Mavro, an excellent post. Thank goodness someone else knows their Scottish history and all about "Bonnie" Prince Charlie, Culloden etc. More Scots fought for Cumberland at Culloden than for the foreign charlatan.

PS And there's nothing wrong with real Rangers men being in charge of Scottish football. It was ever thus.

39

Iwama,

04/06/2007 13:24:03

I actually read the title and threads and was ready to give my tuppence worth, until the Rangers haters reared their ugly heads on another unrelated thread. My God guys, can you not let it drop for once? Your team won the double and you pollute every thread with anti-Rangers nonsense or SFA are masons nonsense. It really is laughable. Please, let it go.
Next thing we'll hear Jack McGinn had nothing to do with Celtic and was part of a brotherhood!
for the record, FOS is ok, but not good enough in my opinion. I do genuinely believe their might very well be a better song out there.

40

frisnit,

Dundee 04/06/2007 13:38:20

I've never really liked the hypocrisy of constantly complaining about God Save the Queen's anti-Scottish verse (which was never used and nobody knew anyway), and then replacing it with an anti-English song. It's a great rabble-rouser, but it just seems childish, irreverant and backwards to adopt it in my opinion.

41

Truth Finder,

04/06/2007 14:04:37

I've got knew anthem suggestion... "George Peat, George Peat GTF!!!"

42

TheGlaswegian,

Edinburgh - we don't need no stinkin' trams 04/06/2007 14:04:44

#36 and #39 Mavro and Mason the song has nothign to do with Bonnie Price Charlie and the Jacobites. It's to do with Bruce's victory at Bannockburn.

Still, while you harp on about the 'rebels', only a pair of idiot hvns would think the destruction of the highland way of life, the banning of the gaelic language being written or spoken, the destruction of our historical documents and the outlawing of tartan would be a good thing. Ya pair of f ckin idiots.
The clans backed Charles because, as a stuart, they preceived him to be the true successor to the throne. The Stuarts had ruled Scotland since 1371 and the first Stuart king was Robert the Bruce's own grandson. Excuse them for being loyal to their own country! Ya couple a f@nnies.

43

The Man Who Knows,

Tunbridge Wells 04/06/2007 14:17:36

44 The Wegie

Now here's something strange - a Wegie speaking up in favour of Jacobitism. That doesn't happen very often. And, from their posts above, it is obvious that Messrs Mavro, Mason and Merchant know rather more about Scottish history than you do which, given your origins, doesn't surprise me.

"Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by Thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the King".

44

Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 04/06/2007 14:23:53

44 TMWK, while I agree 100% with your comments about The Glaswegian's ignorance of Scottish history, I think that you have misspelled the derogatory term for a Glaswegian: I think that this should be "Weegie" or "Weedgie". What perplexes me is why The Glaswegian is residing in Edinburgh. Is he in Saughton?

45

J McEnroe,

New Jersey, US 04/06/2007 14:26:51

46 Patrick

Interesting forum but tell me - is Saughton some kind of lunatic asylum?

46

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 04/06/2007 14:28:53

45, 46 and 47

I think that you guys should lay off The Glaswegian. He's obviously not playing with a full deck.

47

The Man Who Knows,

Tunbridge Wells 04/06/2007 14:31:28

46

Patrick, he can't be in Saughton. They don't put Jacobites in there. They put them to Carstairs.

48

TheGlaswegian,

Edinburgh - we don't need no stinkin' trams 04/06/2007 14:39:03

#45 Apologies... I thought we are talking about "The Flower of Scotland". I now see that Mavro's post is about "God Save the Queen..."

Still, ignoring my first paragraph, the rest of my post stands.

#44 Paddy, please explain what you perceive to be my ignorance of Scottish history?

49

Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 04/06/2007 14:44:32

50

The Glaswegian, I am not "Paddy", I am Patrick. You may not know Scottish history but at least you can get my name right.

50

Robert Mason,

Lanark 04/06/2007 14:46:37

Glaswegian, you think you are being funny calling Patrick "Paddy". You are nothing but an offensive ignoramus.

51

TheGlaswegian,

Edinburgh - we don't need no stinkin' trams 04/06/2007 15:03:03

51 and 52 touchy wee pair you two... offensive ignoramus :-) what a great insult. Seriously. If I call you boab or bobby will you do it again?

Go on then patrick (no offence meant by calling you paddy), can you explain your earlier comment.

52

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 04/06/2007 15:24:52

54 True Jambo

Three tenors? I'd rather have three tenners.

53

Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 04/06/2007 15:37:55

53 The Glaswegian

Apology accepted. No offence taken. Your account of the 1745 rebellion is clearly the classic Jacobite "romance and tragedy" account and I accept that, for some unexplained reason, this is the version which is generally favoured by Scots. Perhaps we like to appear to be the downtrodden underdog suffering at the hands of some despot. However, I suggest that you read "The Jacobite Truth" by Edward Maver (Edinburgh 1972) for an alternative view of what happened eg news of the Bonnie Prince's defeat at Culloden occasioned wild celebrations throughout the land. The same thing happened in Ireland in 1916 when the Easter Rising failed.

54

I-Mac,

04/06/2007 15:50:00

The "rebellious Scots" verse is not part of the national anthem as officially used.

As for "Flower of Scotland" let's be clear that calls for its removal are nothing to do with Gordon Smith, before the conspiracy theorists get even more out of control.

55

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 04/06/2007 15:54:24

57

True Jambo, you must be their agent or a relative. They are about as passionate as the Alexander Brothers. It's a pity that the late great Andy Stewart is no longer with us. He would have wound up the crowd with a rendition of "A Scottish Soldier". Sheer class.

56

Northern Hibby.,

04/06/2007 16:09:57

I would happily see the team line up to Donald Where's yer troosers, as long as we win. Good to see that the new president is giving this important subject the publicity it deserves.

57

Banquo,

04/06/2007 16:47:12

Can I as a non-Scot comment. I agree the FOS is a bit boring, but God Save the Queen is worse - and I am a Unionist!
Anthems should be stirring and get the adrenaline going.- neither of those above fit the bill.
Billy Connolly once suggested The Archers, but I would not go for Scotland The Brave - most people of my generation immediately think of Scott's Porridge Oats.
My own preference - Land of Hope and Glory, but only in a UK context of course.
Also most of the national anthems are anti-someone, usually the English. The Rep. of Ireland 'Soldiers Song' refers to me and my family as despots and knaves - very strong language when it was written about a century ago. Why don't they all change to something exciting, patriotic but not against anyone in particular. Possibly a comic song might be a good idea, anyone who can laugh at themselves can't be all bad.

58

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 04/06/2007 17:16:25

61 Northern Hibby, I have a bad feeing about this Wednesday's game. I suspect that, after it, we may be singing "Alex, where's your losers?".

59

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 04/06/2007 17:18:06

62

Banquo, good post but check the box - they spell it "porage" rather than "porridge". It is yet another unionist conspiracy.

60

Banquo,

Belfast 04/06/2007 18:16:23

#64, Sorry, I'm a Shreddies man myself. Anyway wouldn't it be great if everyone had a funny anthem. It would certainly cut down on the chauvinism. Award prizes for the best, including dancing, actions etc. That would probably be more interesting than the match.

61

Bosco Bhoy1,

County Donegal 04/06/2007 18:33:07

Banquo

How do feel about the Irish rugby melody 'Irelands Call' and do think it ticks the box for rousing pre match inspiration?

62

The Man Who Knows,

Perth 04/06/2007 18:42:14

65 Banquo, I like your style.

66 Bosco, I like "Ireland's Call" - no politics, just a good going tune with fine words.

63

Bosco Bhoy1,

County Donegal 04/06/2007 18:49:32

Banquo 62

"The Rep. of Ireland 'Soldiers Song' refers to me and my family as despots and knaves"

I think you'll find this is a reference to 'Saxons' (Brits) who, when the song was composed, were the dominant ruling elite on the island of Ireland and controlled and owned huge swathes of the nations land and resources to the detriment of the indigenous people.

At this point in history Irish Protestant Unionists such as your forefathers who were loyal to King and country would not have been seen in this light by Republicans.

64

Bosco Bhoy1,

County Donegal 04/06/2007 18:53:54

67 the man who......

I'm not a rugby man but i find Irelands call woeful and some of my good Proddy unionist mates from uni agree that it's embarressing.

It's one thing to want to replace a national anthem that doesnt really fit in with the current political niceties of furthering mutual understanding, blah blah..... but the replacement melody needs to be up to the job.

65

Dougie D,

Ich Liebe Rangers! 04/06/2007 19:01:05

I believe we should change the anthem to something more uplifting, but to what? The poll conducted last year still wanted Flower of Scotland

66

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 04/06/2007 19:08:56

A question: why do we need a national anthem? Just because other countries have one? Why pander to the establishment? It is people's behaviour which defines a country, not the tune or words of a song. Sign the petition at www.stuffyouranthem.com.

67

Pat the Hat,

Cloud 9 04/06/2007 19:25:52

I was going to do a bit of fishing with a quip about you having to be a nation to have a national anthem.

But on reading the historical illiteracy and the pathetic cultural cringing of Mavro, Banquo, "Patrick O'Reilly", The Man Who Knows Nothing and others, I can now see quite clearly that Scotland will never again be a nation – nor, to quote Enoch Powell (!) does it deserve to be.

68

CRUACHAN!,

Dundee 04/06/2007 19:26:02

We should forget the popular origins of a tune when considering a national anthem, because many of the best musical scores in Scottish music were used in what some might consider "controvertial" circumstances.
By that I mean that undoubtedly the best and most stirring tunes to come out of Scottish society were adopted during the conflicts of the 17th and 18th centuries.
What should be remembered is that the tunes used back then, were almost always adopted from older pieces. The lyrics merely changed to suit the circumstances.
With this in mind I'd like to suggest "The Roses O' Prince Charlie".
Forget the old use of the tune and change the title to "The Liberty Of Scotland"!
The tune has a fantastic marching rythm, perfect for a pipe band to strike and the lyrics can be easily manipulated to suit a modern Scotland.
Some of the original verses are perfect, just replace the old line with the new... truly stirring!
I've penned the entire song afresh to suit the purpose of a national anthem, it could probably be polished up a bit, but I think it sounds great!
So if what I've said has intrigued you, let me know, I'll be glad, if enough folk think it worth consideration, to scribble those words down on here to give you the jist.
In the meantime, if you're not familiar with the tune, search for The Corries version! Ronnie Browne delivers it brilliantly!

69

Dougie D,

Ich Liebe Rangers! 04/06/2007 19:33:46

Pat The Hat

Why come on a Scottish newspaper site then?

70

Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 04/06/2007 19:42:10

72 Pat the Cat

Historical illiteracy? Cultural cringing? Enoch Powell? Rivers of blood?

Bampot.

71

jouster,

04/06/2007 20:01:35

It's an awful dirge. When I hear it I feel nothing.

"The Star-spangled Banner" and "La Marseillaise" are upbeat and effective, but a tune doesn't need to be so to be terrific. "Land of My Fathers" gives me goose bumps when I hear it. I can't imagine what it must do for the Welsh lads on the pitch.

72

Dougie D,

Ich Liebe Rangers! 04/06/2007 20:04:12

Jouster

La Marseillaise is superb, too good for the French!

73

McDonkeyboy,

California 04/06/2007 20:21:13

Sunshine on Leith?

74

Pat the Hat,

Cloud 9 04/06/2007 21:01:45

Another prize contribution from "Patrick", the man with nothing to offer except personal abuse. Pat the cat? How long did it take you to come up with that?

I put (!) after Powell's name to emphasise what a strange person for me to be quoting – an Ulster Unionist. The fact that you do not recognise this literary convention tells me that, as is often the case on these threads, I am casting my pearls before swine. (That's another convention, mate, before you accuse me of calling you a pig!) lol!

I'd say you must be the life and soul of parties in Coatbridge. Do you get invited to many? Pip! Pip!

75

Pat the Hat,

Cloud 9 04/06/2007 21:16:47

Dougie D No.74 – I come on to the site to talk about football, being a fan of Celtic FC and Scottish football in general. Not for me the over-hyped, overrated piddle that Sky promotes relentlessly down South.

Occasionally I get side-tracked.

You don't object to me being here, surely? Or do you?

76

Dedge,

a village north of Glasgow 04/06/2007 21:49:20

This is a tricky one. Flower of Scotland is not our national anthem: it is a decent song, that stirs the blood, which everyone knows....and has become the song we sing before internationals....but it is not our national anthem. We dont actually have a national anthem.

As well as a fitba man, I am a rugby fan who goes to every Murrayfield international with my son: The team runs out to the massed pipes and drums playing Highland Cathedral with flames flying around them, then lines up to Flower of Scotland. The whole experience is uplifting and never fails to fill my eyes with tears (I am a unionist by the way!).

I dont go to many Scotland football internationals so I cant comment on behalf of the Tartan Army.

Flower of Scotland isn't perfect, but everyone knows it. Scotland the Brave is bloody awful and should never be restored (I always associate with the alternative Glen Daly version which went "land o the diesel trains, big fat maws and durty weans"!)

Ireland Rugby came up with 'Ireland's Call' to suit the united 4 provinces, which the team represents. I actually think this is a cracking song.

Conclusion: Flower of Scotland is fine, unless a split new song, with easy words, and a good tune can de written, agreed and applied......cant see it happening without being totally I'm afraid

77

Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 05/06/2007 05:52:49

79 Sensitive Pat

I must admit that your comment about it being strange for you to quote an Ulster Unionist confused me - until I read your "offering" in post 80. Time to drag yourself into the 21st century, friend.

PS Are you a Patrick as well, or a Patricia?


 

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