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Thursday, 26th November 2009

Support Scots language in our schools, ministers told

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Published Date: 28 January 2009
SCOTS language teaching should be boosted in primary and secondary schools, a government-commissioned study says.
The SNP pledged further support for the language after the audit of more than 150 organisations was published yesterday.

Linda Fabiani, the culture minister, said it showed Scots was "diverse and distinctive".

She said: "As we celebrate Homecoming Scotland 2009 and the 250th anniversary of the birth of Robert Burns, who of course wrote in Scots, the Scottish Government intends to capitalise on the Scots language as a cultural and economic asset and will consider how it can be further developed and promoted at home and abroad for social and economic gain."

The study set out to discover how the language is supported, what gaps there are and how support could be expanded. Its findings are to be discussed at a conference in Stirling next month.

The director of the Scottish Language Dictionaries, Chris Robinson, said: "It (the study] has allowed Scots to make its own case and highlighted the extent to which it reaches into all corners of everyday life."

The authors cited recent progress by some local authorities in developing and increasing provision for Scots in primary and secondary schools, and said the government should look at expanding this.

Ministers could also "explore the potential for providing continuous professional development for teachers in the area of the Scots language" and examine "attitudes of parents to the Scots language and its status".

The government could also consider raising awareness within the judicial system of opportunities for Scots language translation and other services such as providing definitions of Scots words "to assist in determining laws and cases".

It is claimed about a third of Scotland's population, up to two million people, know and use some of the language.

Scholars say Scots has never been a totally separate language from English, nor does it have fixed spellings.

"There's a real question as to how many people speak full Scots," said Murray Pittock, of the University of Glasgow.

Scots broadly includes the north-east dialect Doric, dialects from the Borders to Fife, and Glasgow and other urban dialects, as well as those in Orkney and Shetland.

A Scottish Government spokesman said yesterday the report was not suggesting the teaching of Scots in schools in the same way as English but as an "appreciation of heritage".

Eleanor Coner, of the Scottish Parent Teacher Council, said: "We should embrace native languages, if you like, but the most important thing in primary is to learn to read and write and I don't think we can force much more into the curriculum."

The audit, compiled by Dr Rhys Evans of Integrate Consulting, also said a proposed public Scottish digital television channel should prominently feature Scots programming.


A Tale of Two Cities, in Scots

IT WIS the best o times, it wis the waurst o times, it wis the age o mense, it wis the age o gypitness, it wis the epoch o belief, it wis the epoch o incredulity, it wis the saison o Licht, it wis the saison o Mirk, it wis the Spring o howp, it wis the winter o wanhope, we haed awthin afore wis, we haed naethin afore wis, we wis aw gaen straucht tae Heivin, we wis aw gaen straucht the ither wey – shortlies, the period wis sae muckle like the noo that some o its maist rummlesome lang-heidit fowk threaped its bein taen, for guid or ill, in the superlative degree o comparison anely."

… in English

IT WAS the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way – in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 January 2009 9:49 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scots language
 
1

Rufus-T-Firefly,

27/01/2009 23:07:12
Has April 1st come early this year?

What an absolute joke.

According to the National Literacy Trust (NLT), as many as 23% of Scottish adults, around 800,000 people, may have low levels of literacy and numeracy.

So what are we doing about it?

Teaching our kids Scots Language.

Brilliant. What a master-stroke.

That will really help them get jobs when they leave school.

It will come in really useful if they want a job in a fish and chip shop in Stornoway.

The SNP are making Scotland an even bigger laughing stock.
2

,

28/01/2009 00:12:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

Tracker,

28/01/2009 00:16:03
Rufus, you have got a point here. I thought call centres were a big employer, but were would a person be if they belted out "it wis the saison o Mirk" down the line. There are jobs in Gaelic, but not this nonsense.

Also, how much is all this going to cost the taxpayer? Recently, a report warned that Scotland would soon be up there with Cuba and Iraq in terms of the huge amount of money spent by the public sector compared to the private.
4

,

28/01/2009 00:16:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

Rufus-T-Firefly,

28/01/2009 00:19:12
4 Traquir , Alba,28/01/2009 00:16:14

Congratulations.

You made a post that had less than 50,000 words.

You never even said "See Tiny URL".

Whats wrong with you?
6

Rufus-T-Firefly,

28/01/2009 00:20:18
4 Traquir , Alba,28/01/2009 00:16:14
Hmm, two Unionist loonies in a row what a surprise.
The thought of actually investing in Scots culture would appear to scare them to the core.
=================================================

What do you base that claptrap on?
7

AJM,

28/01/2009 00:23:43
#4 Perhaps as a independence supporter you cannot see the difference between Scots culture and the article which is Scots language, in an attempt to label all unionsist as anti Scotland.

Anyway main point "Scots broadly includes the north-east dialect Doric, dialects from the Borders to Fife, and Glasgow and other urban dialects, as well as those in Orkney and Shetland."

Does it really and who says that the dialect from Shetland has anything to do with the Borders.

And are we talking dialect or language can the sNp tell the difference?
8

UK007,

28/01/2009 00:33:28
#1/5/6 RFT - Are you lonely and get your stimulation with your comments ?
9

Royster,

28/01/2009 00:35:57
How about Spanish, French, Japanese or Mandarin plus extra Maths? Talk about parochial. Why not teach Danish to primary school kids in Yorkshire?
10

Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,

28/01/2009 00:36:45
#1 Rufus

..."It will come in really useful if they want a job in a fish and chip shop in Stornoway."

------------------------------

Rufus,

Seriously Scots would be a useful language on the Isle of Lewis.

How so?

Tube!

11

Rufus-T-Firefly,

28/01/2009 00:37:00
9 UK007,

Where have you been?

I missed you.

12

Rufus-T-Firefly,

28/01/2009 00:39:15
11 Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,28
Rufus, Seriously Scots would be a useful language on the Isle of Lewis. How so? Tube!
=====================================================

Oh Dear, Ken Dodd has arrived with his tickling stick.
13

Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,

28/01/2009 00:43:19
#13 Rufus,

Rufus,

Seriously Scots would be a useful language on the Isle of Lewis.

How so?

Scots Language and Isle of Lewis. Rufus once again you embarrass yourself.



14

Stan Butler,

28/01/2009 00:44:26
Scots is as much a language as Geordie, Scouse or Cockney.

The difference is that there's a wee industry based on Scots being a language hence bullsh#t like this.
15

FerryPort,

28/01/2009 00:51:42
Scots is broadly talked broadly everywhere.
I want to hold onto auld scots which I just aboot remember from passed older loved ones. Words bursting with meaning and description.
But whit is this lass above sayin' about "economic gain."?
16

Rufus-T-Firefly,

28/01/2009 00:52:30
15 Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,28/01/2009 00:43:19
#13 Rufus,
Seriously Scots would be a useful language on the Isle of Lewis.
======================================================

Ken, Cut it out.

We are trying to do some work here but we cannot concentrate for laughing at your posts.
17

Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,

28/01/2009 00:55:30
#18 Rufus

People are laughing certainly. As English is your first language I assume you are well aware of who people are laughing at.

Laughing At you. But rarely with you.
18

UK007,

28/01/2009 00:55:30
#12 RTF - I wanted to be entertained and I can rely on you.
19

,

28/01/2009 00:56:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
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20

Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,

28/01/2009 01:02:17
#21 Unionist Troll

I do hope you are signing THE register at your local police station daily.

I might just report you to the police and the Inland Revenue.

You are making some pretty weird statements.

A quick check of the IP address used for posting on the forum would have you easily identified. Followed by a very embarrassing visit to you house.

Can you imagine what your parents would say if they knew you were up this late claiming to be pumping your sister to gain benefits.

You will definitely get grounded.
21

Rufus-T-Firefly,

28/01/2009 01:04:46
19 Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,28/01/2009 00:55:30
#18 Rufus
People are laughing certainly. As English is your first language I assume you are well aware of who people are laughing at.
======================================================

Not in this office.

No work getting done because of you.

P.M.S.L.
22

,

28/01/2009 01:11:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
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23

Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,

28/01/2009 01:13:09
#23
Rufus,

"P.M.S.L."

I am sure you do and it is good you can laugh at your little problem. Many people are really embarrassed about incontinence.

No wonder Mrs Rufus does not require your services every night, hence you appearance hear.

And Rufus the reason know work is getting done is because you are on here posting nonsense all day.

unless that is your job...
24

Rufus-T-Firefly,

28/01/2009 01:30:33
25 Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,28/01/2009 01:13:09
#23
"appearance hear".

============================================

Obviously Scots is your first language.
25

Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,

28/01/2009 01:45:17
#27 Rufus,

I really should check my spelling more carefully.

thanks.

I also make many typing mistakes and enjoy you avoiding the question with diversions.

Now where were we.... Oh yes... You were telling me how speaking Scots is of benefit to workers in chip shops on the Isle of Lewis.

It is an easy mistake for any Englishman to make. Do not be so hard on yourself.
26

Rufus-T-Firefly,

28/01/2009 02:07:56
28 Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,28/01/2009 01:45:17

It is an easy mistake for any Englishman to make. Do not be so hard on yourself.
===============================================

I certainly would not know about that.

Anyway, do you not have some crofting to do?

You spend all your time on "hear" when you could be doing something useful, like making shortbread or trying to catch the Loch Ness Monster.
27

Rufus-T-Firefly,

28/01/2009 02:13:01
Take a look at this and tell me it is not a waste of tax payers money.

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/vli/language/scots/index.htm

What a joke.
28

Rufus-T-Firefly,

28/01/2009 02:17:07
From the official Scottish Parliament Website.....

"Walcome til the Scottish Pairlament wabsite
We want tae mak siccar that as mony folk as can is able tae find oot aboot whit the Scottish Pairlament dis and whit wey it warks. We hae producit information anent the Pairlament in a reenge o different leids tae help ye tae find oot mair".

So..............'website' in Scots is 'wabsite'.

Who decided that?

What is the point?

What a disgraceful waste of tax payers money.

Whoever was behind this should be sacked.

29

r1niceboy,

Nebraska 28/01/2009 02:34:45
When Scotland actually mattered in the world, during the Enlightenment, everybody spoke Scots in lowland Scotland. It didn't stop Adam Smith, Hume, Hutcheson, Playfair, Hutton, Burns! et al putting us on the map as a leader in the modern world. I moved to the US seven years ago, and the distance gave me a good chance to see how much Scotland and the Scottish are ashamed of themselves. Arthur Herman, an American Historian, wrote a wonderful book, "How the Scots Invented the Modern World and Everything in it." I get the feeling if a Scot had written it, it would have been called "I'm sorry, Just Ignore Us, We'll Let Ourselves Out."

I think teaching scots is less useful than trying to instill some sort of national pride in our young. That will never happen, because too many Scots believe there's nothing to be proud of.
30

FerryPort,

28/01/2009 02:45:15
yis'ir a ba bags

you are all ball bags

Just learning :)
31

FerryPort,

28/01/2009 02:46:47
practising
32

FerryPort,

28/01/2009 02:57:08
Number 32! You are not speaking of me or of my kind when you tell tale of Scots not being proud as a nation. I do not apologise or as you say or feel "sorry". Whit a thought!
33

Incandescent,

28/01/2009 03:33:52
6 Ruffarse "What do you base that claptrap on?"

That should be:

"On what do you base that claptrap?"

Tool.
34

Incandescent,

28/01/2009 03:34:55
That said, this whole concept is indeed claptrap.
35

,

28/01/2009 04:21:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
36

Ewan Randall,

28/01/2009 04:30:31
What is wrong with our kids getting a decent education in our own language if need be?

Is there any reason English can't be a part of our education syatem too?

Did you know our heros of the Scottish Enlightenment were educated in Scots, but chose to learn English to help to stop discrimination?
37

Dragonhead,

28/01/2009 05:00:46
Teach them how to put woad on their faces while you are on it. International languages will save Scotland, not Gaelic.
38

The Pict.,

Canada/Edinburgh 28/01/2009 05:03:29
The Firefly and the rest of the English flunkies are slavering again. Don't you brainless ones know that we speak better English than the English. You Rufus are the 'Cannae dae that' type who'll doff yer bunnet as You kneel to your English masters. I hope you've acquired the propa uppa class awccent for awcceptance by your English masters.

Both English and Scots came from LOW GERMAN hence a great number of words are the same. Therefore Englishmen are actually speaking Scots with any English accent.
Slaite Mhath.
39

Bluevoice,

Dubai, U.A.E. 28/01/2009 05:10:21
One of the most stable and multi-lingual countries in the world speak and write to each other in their own dialect. The Swiss German speakers of Switzerland start learning their first foreign language... high german... at the age of 7. Beforehand kindergarten lessons are conducted in their mother tongue. I find it sad that we were not allowed to talk broad scots as children. It was frowned upon and 'high' english was encouraged. I fear that Scotland is too far gone. We have lost our identity and are desperately trying to nurture aspects of our culture that have almost died out. I still love the country where I was born and that will never change.
40

Dragonhead,

28/01/2009 05:16:06
#38 All you have written is actually a dialect of English!Just as Cantonese is a dialect of Chinese and not a separate language.
#32 Well said!
41

Ewan Randall,

28/01/2009 05:22:07
(#40) – (Dragonhead) – What are you talking about here, we are talking about Scots, though there isn’t anything wrong with gaelic, and not gaelic?


(#41) – (The Pict.) – Are you not aware that about three quarters of English comes from French?

Did you know that Scots comes from what we could call old English and used to be spoken all the way down to the south of Lincolnshire in the midlands of England?

Did you not know that it said that those people from Dundee are the best spoken in English?
42

Ewan Randall,

28/01/2009 05:28:06
Were people not aware that much of the Scots we know now is of the type created by Burns to bridge the gap between English and the Scots in common usage at the time?
43

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 28/01/2009 05:48:51
This is great news.

A revival in the use of Scots will have two great benefits, one practical and the other psychological.

Someone mentioned international languages. As a Scots-speaker from childhood, this helps me greatly with a good pronunciation of Spanish and Russian, and if I spoke German or Arabic (one can't learn every language, unfortunately) it would help with that too.

Language oppression has been a part of the psychological grinding-down that Scotland gets to keep us "in our place" in the UK. The consequences are plain to see in many of the comments above. Legitimisation of the native tongue (not of all of us, but of many) will be a great boost to our national self-esteem.

Promotion of the Scots language will lead to a more confident, outgoing Scotland, and a more linguistically adept population.

Re #30 "tell me it is not a waste of tax payers money"

It's not a waste of taxpayers money. (Actually, it cost the taxpayer nothing at all.)

"What a joke"

The puir, mentallie-oppress't wee sowel.
44

r1niceboy,

Nebraska 28/01/2009 06:25:41
I've taught English at a US college, and happily throw Scots at them. Linguistics students love it. They admittedly love being subjected to Chewing the Fat clips. Anyway, Scots as it was had evolved into the lied we speak mainly because it's rarely written, and if it is, it's usually a sounding out of current verbal use. I liken it somewhat to Chinese script, which concentrates on consonant and diphthongs, as vowel use changes according to location, accent, etc.

I love dialect, and love the fact that modern Scots can't really be given codified. It varies so much from city to city, as to be impossible to pin down.

You can't teach it, because language is an agreement between users. You'd never manage to teach Queen's English in the US, as our social and cultural constructs are different.
45

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 28/01/2009 07:16:46
Re #47 : "You can't teach it, because language is an agreement between users."

One could say the same about any language, yet somehow it still happens.

It'd be perfectly possible to teach a regional Scots variety, as long as it was understood by all concerned that this is what was being taught and learned.

Beyond the short term, promotion of Scots will require official support for a generic written Scots, or perhaps more than one form along e.g. Norwegian lines.
46

eric,

28/01/2009 07:19:58
Its bad enough when down south watching tv with subtitles from edinburgh, and neds trying to speak english.
47

Rufus-T-Firefly,

28/01/2009 08:04:47
Good Morning SM.

Yes indeed what about Mr Sheridan?

Cillian Sheridan. I wonder if he will break into the Celtic first team.
48

,

28/01/2009 08:09:36
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49

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 08:11:38
"It will come in really useful if they want a job in a fish and chip shop in Stornoway." - Rufus

Idiot. What a show of little knowledge of these isles.


"Did you not know that it said that those people from Dundee are the best spoken in English?" - Ewan Randall

Um no, that is said of people from Inverness, not Dundee. Again, another show of lack of knowledge.

These people are not equipped to debate Scottish matters.
50

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 28/01/2009 08:12:45
Is Scots really a separate language. Looking at the two pieces of prose in the article we can see that the grammatical structure is virtually identical.

Much of the difference between the two is merely an indication of differing pronunciations of the same word e.g anely and only, Heivin and Heaven etc. If this is an indication of a separate language then people in Yorkshire must be speaking a separate language when they say "nowt" instead of "nothing" or "boutter" instead of "butter". Is Cockney a separate language when they say "yir havin a larf" instaed of "you're having a laugh"

There are some separate words but this too is a feature of other areas. People in the West Country of England use words like "grockle" that are not used anywhere else.

51

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 08:16:17
English is a diverging language. After all, there is US English diction, Australian English diction, Zimbabwe English Diction, Trinidad and Tabago English Diction, Soouth African English Diction, Singapore English diction, Philipines, Ireland, Jamaica, Indonesia, India, Hong Konk SAR, Carribean, Canadian and Belize English diction.....so why not Scots English diction?
52

yockel,

28/01/2009 08:24:09
If you want a better grasp of Scots, learn some Dutch.
53

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 08:26:14
58

True. Don't the good people of Fife not use the same or similar word for "train" as the Dutch?

Doric itself is based on Norwegian (isn't it? or is it Danish?) And the Orkneys and Shetlands have thier roots in Old Norse.
54

yockel,

28/01/2009 08:31:04
As they say,
weg en kook je hoofd
but not you Dave ;-)
55

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 08:33:46
yockel

hahahaha! Aye, awa'an bile yer heids (but nae yersel' yockel loon)! :-)
56

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 28/01/2009 08:36:54
42 Bluevoice
It is interesting that you illustrate the example of the Swiss and their use of German. Some years ago I was on a ferry beteen Italy and Greece. At the bar I engaged in a conversation with a German from Hamburg.

A group nearby started singing in German. I asked him what the significance of the song was. He said he didn't know and stated that the group "must be Bavarian". As it turned out they were Swiss. It appeared that, as an individual from northern Germany, he could not tell the difference between people from southern Germany (Bavaria) and German speaking Switzerland.
57

JG,

Fife 28/01/2009 08:40:54
#59 Dave

"True. Don't the good people of Fife not use the same or similar word for "train" as the Dutch?"

Strangely enough, we call the 'train' the....... 'train'.

It's fine to have a knowledge of the Scots language but (as someone else said) it changes all the time and it's different in different parts of the country. Rabbie Burns Scots is not the same as the present day, East Coast version. What is the point of doing this when school children can't hit the mark in English?
58

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 08:43:35
As an incidental, my father and late grandfather told me of a time that they were beaten in school if they spoke in thier mother tongue - Gaelic.

In school they were forced to speak the Queens English as thier first langauge.

Fortuantely, us Gaels are a rebellious lot and the langaue never fully died and is making a good revival.
59

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 08:46:33
JG

No disrespect but I do recall being in Fife not so long ago and a local refered to the train by a different word. When I asked, it was the same word as the Dutch used (or could be the Danish).

Dunno. Just sayin'
60

JG,

Fife 28/01/2009 08:49:37
Dave
The only other thing I can recall the train being called was 'the 125' or maybe the 'sleeper'. I can only think you were either speaking to (a) a foreigner or (b) to a Fifer who was taking the mickey!
61

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 28/01/2009 08:50:14
57 Dave
You are right in the sense that there is a huge diversity in the diction of English but it is not necessarily along national lines as you have described it.

The diction of an American from Boston is more similar to that of a Canadian from Toronto than it is to a southerner from Alabama.
62

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 08:56:17
JG

haha! Dunno, maybe is was a parochial word he was using. If I can recall it, I will let you know.

Ugly George

The way I described it along national lines is per the different dictionaries available. The dictionaries are available in Microsoft Word or at any good on-line book store.

They wouldn't go to the trouble of making these dictionaries if there was disticnt differences and the differences are usually along nationalistic lines.
63

yockel,

28/01/2009 09:04:20
And which town does this fine lad hail from?

twee taarten en een ui een zo goed
64

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 09:09:07
I like 2 cakes and onions but generally not together yockel!
65

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 09:09:29
Dundee!! Aye?
66

yockel,

28/01/2009 09:10:14
Twa pies an an ingian an an aw. That would be a Dundee cake Dave
67

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 09:11:32
haha! Classic yockel! Ye've fair tickled me pink!
68

Mallory,

Edinburgh 28/01/2009 09:12:24
If over 20% of Scots have problems in reading English after years of compulsory schooling why do the educators not provide better teaching?

69

Wardog™,

28/01/2009 09:14:33
What the above ignorant posts from Unionists tell us is that physically cringe at the mention of Burns, they HATE the way we all speak, they hate our culture because that surely is what Language is in song, poetry, prose and indeed our important historical documents.

Again, I have to ask, what is the unionists vision for Scotland?

It's becoming seemingly very apparaent that their goal is 'north britian", if so, then be open about it and say as much.

Go to the electorate with your real thoughts rather than hiding behind 'scottish this and that" and saltires, I'm sure your honesty for once will be justly awarded.


Risible scum



70

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 09:15:22
75

Good point. Because nowadays, you cannot teach those that do not want to learn.

It falls to lazy parenting, no discipline and this insistance that the "government should do something about it"

People have forgotten that the answer lies with themselves and the government is not always required to stick it's nose in.
71

Wardog™,

28/01/2009 09:15:49

51. Racism and Class War in one post, superb SMee, keep up the good work.

Being honest about your motives at last
72

Bluevoice,

28/01/2009 09:17:10
#63 Ugly George - It is quite frustrating as in Switzerland each Canton has their own dialect. I am married to a Berner, lived in Thurgau and worked in Zurich! My Swiss German was never perfect... and whoever I was talking to was very quick to correct me... in their own dialect!!! We have friends just over the border in Germany who can understand our dialect but friends from Berlin or Frankfurt just look on in astonishment! (o:
73

yockel,

28/01/2009 09:18:32
Wardog if they want the kids to do Burns a school then say so, they do not need a taxpayer funded study to tell us its a reasonable idea.

I for obvious reasons support the Scots concept of flexible spelling.
74

Iain's,

Barcelona 28/01/2009 09:20:38
The experience with the Catalan language here is 30% more unemployment than we should have.

Foreign investors flee at the thought of minority languages.

It's great for Madrid, but does Catalunya no good at all.

Be warned!
75

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 09:21:24
yockel

Interesting you should mention Scots concept of flexible spelling. Just to open the debate up, is Scots diction phonetic spelling of a dialect? And is phonectic spelling lazy or acceptable?

Just asking. I like all our langauges and dialects of Scotland fae Gaelic tae Doric tae braw Scots!
76

yockel,

28/01/2009 09:22:05
Mallory 75 they should modify ingglish to make it comprehensible
77

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 09:24:13
81

Yes fair point but I don't think we are about to ditch the international langauge of commerce to only deal in oor own tongues.

English will still remain important for trade, as it always has done.

Mind you, they reckon by 2030 there will be more speakers of Spansih than English.

Key word - Flexibility. If we get a better relationship with our own dialects/languages and along with English then we won't be so firghtened of learning new langauges and thus making us, as a whole, a bitty more employable, flexible and if necessary, migratory.
78

yockel,

28/01/2009 09:30:18
The greatest asset of the Scots language is the extensive finely nuanced vocabulary which defies direct translation.

Just as the Inuit have many words to describe the minutia of snow so we have an extensive vocabulary to describe idiots.
79

Iain's,

Barcelona 28/01/2009 09:39:37
84.

I used to speak some Catalan but if you are outwith the Catalan speaking areas for a while, you can't maintain the language.

Another point is that in areas where people use other Catalan dialects, such as Valencia, Mallorca and Provence, the people refuse to admit that they speak Catalan.

In the same way, why should people in Aberdeenshire be forced by teachers to use foreign Ayrshire words?

As it is, the Scotsmen will not let me use the dialect phrase, 'there were a Q·ueer lot of folk at the game on Saturday'. If the 'National' newspaper proscibes good scots words, what can we do?



80

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28/01/2009 09:44:09
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81

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 28/01/2009 09:47:34
Will there be a standard for this language and how will it cope with the myriad variations, who will arbitrate the disagreements which will invariably occur. Scots as spoken in its many regional forms adds to our culture immeasurably. However forcing it in to the schools curriculum is political correctness of the worst kind, and until Ms Fabiani and her colleagues commence using it for their daily business in the parliament we should brook no further interference from them into the education of our; children, bairns,gets,littlins, sproots,weans.
82

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 09:49:38
86

Ah, standardisation of dialect and langauge? They do that with Gaelic but it's weel kent that we have regional variances of Gaelic.

However, I suppose each area could make a claim for learning thier own dialect/tongue but learn about other tongues?
83

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 28/01/2009 09:53:15
In 1992, in response to the widespread interest by Catholics in the Irish language, Protestants in Northern Ireland founded the Ulster Scots Language Society.

Like Wales, road signs and place names in many parts of Northern Ireland are now in bilingual English and Ulster Scots. in the past 300 years, some Scottish place names have been translated into English but the vast majority are in Scots or Gaelic, and you only have to look at road signs or maps to verify this fact.

Since the Act of Union over 300 years ago, and the massive Anglicisation of Scotland, the mass of Scots still speak in the Scots dialect or language, using a distinct accent and grammar, or complete lack of it!

Despite all the legions of Scotsmen on the make encouraging the adoption of spoken standard English and linguistic assimilation into Great Britain the very opposite has happened. A distinct Scottish accent
just like, a Welsh, Irish, or English Regional accent is now just as acceptable as Southern English.

Written Scots is another matter but just like Shakespeare's prose, the population of England no longer speak or write in this language, except in an artistic or educational setting.

I suspect, in another 300 years, despite the march of English I suspect the Scots will still have the same accent and use the Scots dialect in their everyday lives.

84

57vintage,

Banffshire 28/01/2009 09:55:22
This is a good idea as long as they don't attempt to "teach it" - otherwise it leads to its existence as a separate subject in the curriculum, when it should be encouraged by those who naturally speak it.

The local Doric Festival up here seems to have its heart in the right place, but seems to want to encourage young people to write poor doggerel derivative of established poets - let them SPEAK it instead of forcing them to write it down.

Although she is a friend, I found it quite surprising that Maureen Watt chose to take the MSPs' Oath in Doric. Whilst she is a fine Keith quine and can no doubt habber and haver with the rest of us, the Watt family at school in the 70s somehow spoke with an affected English accent in the classroom.

As for the sparring over Gaelic and Scots, FFS live and let live.
85

Ewan Randall,

28/01/2009 10:00:49
(#87) – (Vincent-W) – Isn’t the development of our workforce and wellbeing of our children not being wasted by not tapping into a valuable resource our mother tongue?
86

57vintage,

Banffshire 28/01/2009 10:01:57
#86 Iain.

Your point about the difference between Ayrshire (is it Lallans?) and Doric is well made. Any attempt to standardise or introduce to one part of the country what is alien language-wise will only serve to dilute and homogenise something which is natural and should be preserved. And those in charge of the media will hold sway. It's not unusual these days to hear imported terms (I blame Radio Scotland) such as "hee-haw", "diddies", "pelters" in the NE.

"there were a Q·ueer lot of folk at the game on Saturday".

You were at Pittodrie looking over to the away fans too?
87

Jock MacSprog,

28/01/2009 10:04:51
to begin with, most experts agree that Scots isnt really a language at all. Its essentially the phoneticisation of mispronounced English. In any case, I find it ironic that in the midst of the worst economic crisis in 70 years and in a region that was lagging most of Europe even in good times, the two initiatives that we see in todays Scotsman are reviving the dead horse of a 19th century industrial dinosaur industry, Shipbuilding and teaching a dead "language" in our schools. Amazing. Yes, these initiatives will defintely prepare us to compete in a modern global economy. I fear for Scottish children's futures, I really do.
88

Ewan Randall,

28/01/2009 10:13:17
(#94) – (Jock MacSprog) – Are you not aware that the people who speak this so call dead language created the concept of the modern world as we know it, not too bad then for a backward country and people?
89

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28/01/2009 10:18:48
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90

Ewan Randall,

28/01/2009 10:24:41
(#97) – (sm753) – Why not take the opportunity for a spot of enlightenment yourself and read a book by Arthur Herman entitled “The Scottish Enlightenment, The Scots’ invention of the modern world”, do you think you can manage that?
91

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 10:25:24
Smee@96

Your fancy for strapping rugby players, while most probably sincere, it boak inducing at best.

However, this is a debate on the mutiple tongues and dialects of Scotland with no refernce to strapping rugby players to which you are attracted. Perhaps a useful comment regarding the article from yourself? Or are you content to declare crushes on burly men?
92

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28/01/2009 10:25:51
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93

Ewan Randall,

28/01/2009 10:29:20
(#101) – (Vincent-W) – What deliberation has brought you to this conclusion?
94

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28/01/2009 10:48:34
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57vintage,

Keith 28/01/2009 10:48:59
#94 "most experts agree that Scots isnt really a language at all. Its essentially the phoneticisation of mispronounced English"

Not as I remember it from my days as an undergraduate taught by the redoubtable J Derrick Maclure, an Ayrshireman. I do think he's mixing up his cultires these days, however, in that I saw him, a Lowlander, cycling thorugh Aberdeen last week wearing a kilt. Odd.

As I recall, depending on which of the Scots languages or dialects is under consideration, there are a variety of languages which have influenced Scots in all its variations, although admittedly English is dominant.
96

Hermitage,

Edinburgh 28/01/2009 10:50:07
Given that Scots is a garbled guttersnipe version of English, and that what passes for communication in the classroom today consists mainly of gabbled grunts, I am sure this initiative will undoubtedly make young Scots more articulate and employable--not.

This is typical of the backward-looking 'Braveheart' mentality of Scotland.
97

Ewan Randall,

28/01/2009 10:50:36
(#103) – (sm753) – Do you not see an irony in the fact Scottish children generally speak Scots, but when they go to school have to learn a form of English many English people find it hard to cope with in order to do their school work?

Would you be too surprised when you come across reasonably bright children, who have to almost learn a new language, finding it difficult to do their lessons until they are able to cope with the language?
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JG,

Fife 28/01/2009 10:54:32
#76 Wardog
What a lot of tosh!
People actually DON'T hate Burns - most Scots admire the writings of this well-educated Scotsman and celebrate it for what it is. The fabulous poems of a man born 250 years ago! Surely you aren't advocating that we all go back to speaking like that? Not that everyone of THAT time spoke like him anyway. There are so many regional variations it would be impossible to cater for everybody. Get a grip!
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Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 28/01/2009 10:55:38
Couldn't agree more. And what about Scottish history?
100

JG,

Fife 28/01/2009 11:02:03
#108/110 Citizen Ken
OK, Ken, what version of 'Scots' will you teach? Doric? West Coast Scots? Lallans? East Coast Scots? Because (for example) Fife Scots isn't the same as Glasgow Scots. And stop trying to turn this into a political debate!
101

DAVID,

Edinburgh 28/01/2009 11:03:01
No no no no no no no.

Totally nonsensical idea. Totally agree with no 10.

102

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 11:03:48
103

Thank you for your comment. As it happens, those "red cents of your tax" is also other peoples taxes too. There are myriad things I do not wish my taxes to be spent on but they are nonetheless.

It's called being an "inclusive society". Your anti "don't spend taxes on anything that prommotes Scottish Cultural Idendity" is most telling.

I gather you are afraid. You have a massice fear factor of things that are outwith your scope. I'm sorry to say, you will not last long with an attitdue like that. Wait until the UK joins the EU in it's entirity - which, I imaginge, is something you fear the most.
103

Jock MacSprog,

28/01/2009 11:07:23
Generally speaking, this region needs to stop living in the past and focus on surviving in the MODERN world.
Language is a communication tool, nothing else. If you cant communicate effectively you wont prosper and contribute to socciety. We are failing in Scotland miserably to carry our own weight and support ourselves. We have much too high levels of Gvt support and jobs. One reason for this is we continue to live in the past and use too many excuses as crutches. This type of debate is exactly whats wrong with Scotland and is what makes us seem like a joke.
104

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 28/01/2009 11:09:56
#108
The question is why? Why waste time teaching a few million people to speak a language nobody else can understand? Time is finite lets use it to arm our children with useful language skills which will help them in the real world.
105

Ewan Randall,

28/01/2009 11:12:06
(#114) – (DAVID) – Isn’t the subject we are talking about allowing our children who already speak Scots as their language to use it in their education, instead of having to learn a whole new dialect to do so?
106

Ewan Randall,

28/01/2009 11:17:10
(#117) – (All Politicians are the same) – When Scots were the best educated people in the world being educated in Scots never held us back, and can you honestly say those of the Scottish Enlightenment were backward looking?
107

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 11:21:57
123

Oh? When did we adopt the Euro?

I think you have nothing further to add to this debate.
108

JG,

Fife 28/01/2009 11:23:01
#119 Citizen Ken

"Now, in an English school, to broaden your question, what kind of English do they teach? A Yorkshire dialect? Cockney? Scouse dialect? Mancurian? Brummy? Geordie?"

That's the thing, it's basically all the same language, they all just pronounce it differently, throw in some colloquialisms and a few bits of slang and there you go!

Anyway, the point is that Liverpudlians will understand other Liverpudlians, Glaswegians other Glaswegians etc.. The trick is to get other people across the world to understand - and you ain't going to do that by speaking dialect!
109

Ewan Randall,

28/01/2009 11:24:51
(#120) – (sm753) – Isn’t it common sense that children who use a particular dialect in everyday use, as with Scots, will find it more difficult to then learn a different dialect when learning how to read?

Is it not then common sense to believe that Scots speaking children will find it harder to learn standard English when learning how to read than their own Scots dialect?
110

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 28/01/2009 11:25:58
#122
No but thet kids spoke Scots from the cradle then, you are proposing teaching it almost from scratch. Also during the period you are talking about Britain ran most of the world so everybody spoke Scots/English of a variant. Now in a multi polar world Indian and Chinese gain prominence, sorry but lovely as it is it is definitely not the best use of time and resources.
111

yockel,

28/01/2009 11:27:08
Setting aside the question as to whether or not it is a good idea there is a fundamental problem.
I am no spring chicken and come from a long line of folk who bred late in life yet I suspect perhaps with the exception of Doric, it was my grandparents generation if not that of my great grandparents who were the last to have a useable working knowledge of their respective local dialects.
112

Stan Butler,

28/01/2009 11:29:28

Scots isn't a language.

It is no more and no less than the name given to the different dialects of English that are spoken in Scotland.

Formal teaching will kill any dialect stone dead. Leave it be and distrust all those with a vested financial or political interest in promoting Scots as a language.

113

bill-alba,

fife 28/01/2009 11:32:12
#125 if they don't need a public subsidy why are you advocating a public subsidy for Spanish etc...
or are you and your fellow britnats just splashing out with your general hate anything scots comments..
For all the britnats (wannabe english) on here, why aren't you supporting Scottish independence you can then go and live in England for a couple of years and ask to be what you really really want to be a naturalised citizen(subject) of England.
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JG,

Fife 28/01/2009 11:34:20
#131 Citizen Ken

"But, again, I stress, that a Glaswegian CAN step into speaking standard English"

Because that's what they were taught at school! I can also get by in French - because I was taught that at school! Why would you waste time and money teaching local dialects in school (when you're clearly saying that people are learning it anyway) when children are failing in English (a language used across the world), maths and science?
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Ewan Randall,

28/01/2009 11:39:13
(#129) – (All Politicians are the same) –Who says I am proposing teaching Scots from scratch, isn’t the point that Scots is the language spoken in the home of the children from birth, and are only discriminated against when entering school?

Does it matter what country run what when teaching children how to read in the language they speak in?

Is it not the best use of time and resources to educate children in the most effective manner possible?

What about Scots is not the best use of time and resources?
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Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 28/01/2009 11:39:25
There is no specific criteria to distinguish dialects and langauge.

Therefore, this is carte blanche.
117

Dragonhead,

Dalian,China 28/01/2009 11:47:04
Scots is an English dialect,just as is Geordie and Scouse. Get over yourselves.The Scots I have found around the world are keener to learn other's languages.The English tend to just shout the same thing in English, but louder each time.
Inverness has the clearest and most pleasant accent in Scotland and certainly not Dundee as said earlier by someone.
In China, the national language is Putonghua,or Guoyu (Mandarin to most outside China, it is correctly called Modern Standard Chinese).All other languages including Guandonghua (Cantonese)Shanghainese,Hokkien,Dalianhua are all dialects.
The official language of Scotland is English, all others,are dialects.
As for most of English coming from French etc. Every language develops that way.Even Indonesian Bahasa,Japanese and Arabic have English words in them,now established parts of the language.
To teach Scots is an indulgence.To teach the languages of commerce, Chinese,Japanese,Arabic,etc makes far more sense.Then you can indulge yourselves.
118

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 28/01/2009 11:47:39
#138

we do not speak like that though, I was born and brought up in Inverness attended Uni in edinburgh and have since live in England and now back in edinburgh, i could not even understand the paragraph in "Scots". Not sure I know anybody who would.
119

Dragonhead,

Dalian,China 28/01/2009 11:49:52
I should of course have said that Chinese,Japanese and Arabic have also added considerably to English. Your numbers are Arabic, as is your thumb, from the Arabic Tum el khabir etc,etc.
120

Ewan Randall,

28/01/2009 11:51:24
(#137) – (sm753) – Why do you believe children will automatically learn from those on the television and radio who don’t speak as they do?

Do you not also think this has little effect on the written word they are trying to equate with what they already know and say?

Did you not know Thomas Sheridan had little effect on the way Scots, who went to learn how to speak standard English, spoke when at home in Scotland?
121

JG,

Fife 28/01/2009 11:55:10
#141 Citizen Ken
" it doesn't seem to me that you have any particular dislike of Scots and that you value it, in fact."

You are absolutely right! I also think that school timetables have to be prioritised, and I'm afraid that teaching a parochial language is 'way down that list. That's not to say we should bin the Scots language but like it or not, it moves on (there are more young people mispronouncing 'th' as they copy Eastenders - as in 'fanks', 'fings' and 'wif' and raising their voices at the end of a sentence to be more American or Australian, for example - all of which gets right on my thuppennies!) - c'est la vie!
122

P Rayner.,

Latin America . 28/01/2009 11:59:43
The idea of devoting scarce resources on a scheme that will be of miniscule benefit to either the individual or country is laughable . No wonder the SNP and some of its supporters on these pages are held in contempt and are ridicled . In addition to having the priceless advantage of the English language surely the student would be better served were resources targeted , not at dead languages , dialects , but at important foreign languages , sciences etc . The UK government does not have unlimited funds to finance such crackpot schemes advocated by so few .
123

Ewan Randall,

28/01/2009 12:02:40
(#145) – (Dragonhead) – Were you not aware that the numbers we know are in fact Indian, Hindu mathematicians in India invented the so-called Arabic numbers at least 1,700 years ago.

Were you not also aware that the Arabic number system also stems from the Indian Hindu figures?
124

Ewan Randall,

28/01/2009 12:10:35
(#148) – (P Rayner.) – Though you do believe in devoting scarce resources in teaching young children how to read a dialect which they hardly use in their everyday life, so that they can be educated at school, which they could have easily have done in their own Scots dialect, why does that sound like an illogical waste of resources at their age?
125

Ewan Randall,

28/01/2009 12:16:13
(#148) – (P Rayner.) – Were you not aware Scots is a protected language under European law, and the British government are obliged to protect it too?
126

P Rayner.,

Latin America . 28/01/2009 12:22:28
Ewan Randall . I´m not sure I understand your post . In clarification of mine I have to say I don´t think it wise to devote a finite resource on something that will be of miniscule benefit . Further , in this day and age with increasing intercourse between Britain and the continent , with many Britons working there and continentals working here , especially in London and the south east , it is to the immeasurable advantage to our own people that they learn , for example , a language in addition to English . Learning Scots contributes to no advantage .
127

Otis B. Driftwood,

Abroad 28/01/2009 12:25:55
The Swiss, I believe, are taught both Swiss and German in school. The grammar and syntax are the same, only the vocabularly and/or pronunciation differs.
Perhaps a similar approach could be used in Scotland.
128

P Rayner.,

Latin America . 28/01/2009 12:27:33
Ewan . Lets take as true Governments obligation to protect language . What precisely does this mean , if true ?
129

Stan Butler,

28/01/2009 12:29:31


Is Ulster Scots a language?
130

JG,

Fife 28/01/2009 12:29:34
#152 P Rayner
I think he wants to stay speaking only to people in his small corner of the world and reading Rabbie Burns stuff!
131

Stan Butler,

28/01/2009 12:33:31

What language did Chaucer use?
132

P Rayner.,

Latin America . 28/01/2009 12:41:40
JG , Fife . I can understand Ewans view but I simply think it unwise . I´m in favour of Government directing resources which will benefit the majority . My point about the increasing intercourse between Britons and the continent is , lovelly though Scots and Scotland are , the reality is that for Scots to be better able to partake in this , even if it means moving to London or and the south east , as thousands do , learning Scots will not help . I have no problem with people learning Scots as long as it is not government funded .
133

P Rayner.,

Latin America . 28/01/2009 12:45:22
JG , Fife . By the way , though in south America now I once knew a Scots girl from Fife . Her English dialect was , I thought , the best spoken in the UK . Really lovely , as she was .
134

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28/01/2009 13:47:31
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135

Stan Butler,

28/01/2009 13:56:35

What language did Chaucer use?

What language did William Dunbar use?

Were they the same language?
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28/01/2009 14:00:14
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28/01/2009 14:12:20
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28/01/2009 14:26:20
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Wardog™,

28/01/2009 14:26:53


162. Smee

Oh dear smee, complaining about racists attacks one day, making them the next.... is there no end to the unionist cringe?
140

Stan Butler,

28/01/2009 14:29:59
#168 Citizen Ken

'Ulster Scots is a dialect of Scots.'

So why is it included as a separate language under the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages?
141

Stan Butler,

28/01/2009 14:37:38
#170 Citizen Ken

so why therefore did Dunbar write of Chaucer

'Was thou noucht of oure Inglisch all the lycht
Surmounting eviry tong terrestial
Alls fer as Mayis morow dois mydnycht'?

Maybe Dunbar didn't know what language he was writing in and thought that he was writing the same language as Chaucer, is that it?

142

Stan Butler,

28/01/2009 14:40:31
#176 Citizen Ken


And Scots is included because someone asked for it to be included.

Doubtless inclusion on the list allows access to eu funds for those wishing to promote a dialect.
143

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28/01/2009 15:08:06
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144

Ewan Randall,

28/01/2009 15:08:08
(#152) – (P Rayner.) – Do you favour any other methods of ethnic cleansing?
145

pwd,

Borders 28/01/2009 15:15:51
RTF 30 & 31

Well said! It's not even good at what it purports to be; it is contrived nonsense.
146

Micjonger,

28/01/2009 15:19:58
There's no such thing as a "SCOTS LANGUAGE" or a "SCOTS DIALECT".

Lets face it, all these strange mispelt English words are the product of half drunk/drugged Scots being slapdash & sloppy in their pronunciation and enunciation of our Queen's English. One can hear brilliant renditions of this pseudo-language every Friday & Saturday night when the pubs close in every Scottish city.

Repetition over the centuries has understandably produced an unhealthy & unhelpful elite of so-called professors of Scottish language and literary "experts" who have made an industry out of nothing.

147

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28/01/2009 15:35:45
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Wardog™,

28/01/2009 15:40:20

186. Where did English come from?

149

Wardog™,

28/01/2009 15:41:46
188. Smee

I really don't want to know about your sordid sex fantasies.

150

Wardog™,

28/01/2009 15:44:04
183. LOL , smee's flipped his lid.
151

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28/01/2009 15:48:07
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152

Wardog™,

28/01/2009 15:53:17


195. Indeed, he's patently a cultural imperialist, not surpirsed, that's what I had him down for anyhow.

You can watch the spectacle of Am2, Smee and Rufus decrying Scots for apparently racist behaviour against people with English accents and then the next these imbeciles are on record slating their ane mither tongue.

Silly unionists

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,

28/01/2009 15:56:29
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Rufus-T-Firefly,

28/01/2009 15:59:11
196 Wardog™,28/01/2009 15:53:17
You can watch the spectacle of Am2, Smee and Rufus decrying Scots for apparently racist behaviour
======================================================

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
155

Wardog™,

28/01/2009 15:59:15

197. Please stop stating that your sexual preference is inanimate objects, it disrupts the comments.
156

Rufus-T-Firefly,

28/01/2009 16:00:08
sm I emailed you the documents, did you get them?
157

Wardog™,

28/01/2009 16:00:35


199. Rufus

You forgot the 'mmmmwwwhhhhh' at the front of your post Ru'.

158

Wardog™,

28/01/2009 16:01:20


201. OMG, they are operating some sick photograph ring
159

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28/01/2009 16:02:33
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Wardog™,

28/01/2009 16:02:48


201. Chech that, a New Labour sycophant in cahoots with an old right wing 'tebbit' tory.... what will they thingk of next these pesky unionist drolls.
161

Wardog™,

28/01/2009 16:05:02


204. 1.6 Million.


162

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28/01/2009 16:06:07
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Wardog™,

28/01/2009 16:06:23


206. How sad that the so called unionists should denigrate their own language & culture like this.

You two should be ashamed of yourselves.

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28/01/2009 16:10:32
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Wardog™,

28/01/2009 16:11:08
206. Rufus

That's smee code for " nae chance sunshine, that load o' pisss that you sent me was embarrassing, now away back tae yer mammay's fairytales ya we dobber...."



166

Rufus-T-Firefly,

28/01/2009 16:13:21
209 Wardog™,28/01/2009 16:06:23
206. How sad that the so called unionists should denigrate their own language & culture like this.
You two should be ashamed of yourselves.
=================================================

Aww Poor Wee Wardog.

Just learn some Klingon Wardog and you wont feel so left out for once in your dull life.
167

Wardog™,

28/01/2009 16:14:55

213. I thought you'd now better Smee, rufus is a silly wee wag who seems to look up to up and instead your encouraging the denigration of Scotland's language and culture.

Shame on you.

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Wardog™,

28/01/2009 16:16:23


214. Cha robh dithis riamh a’ fadadh teine nach do las eatarra

169

Rufus-T-Firefly,

28/01/2009 16:16:31
SM, did you not know that Gene Roddenberry was actually Scottish?

Well as Scottish as Barack Obama and Kofi Annan.
170

Rufus-T-Firefly,

28/01/2009 16:18:39
Wardog, Deoghail am fallus bhàrr duine mharbh siadha tiadhan
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Wardog™,

28/01/2009 16:23:06


219. Racist, Homophobic and Bigoted.... all in one day.


A spectacular own goal.....

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Wardog™,

28/01/2009 16:23:25


218. Bigot
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Rufus-T-Firefly,

28/01/2009 16:25:23
220 Wardog™,28/01/2009 16:23:06
219. Racist, Homophobic and Bigoted.... all in one day.
A spectacular own goal.....
====================================================

Wardog, do not put yourself down like that.

You have so much to live for...............
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Rufus-T-Firefly,

N.I. 28/01/2009 16:30:17
Wardog, you need help.

See if you can get Traquir to post some "See TinyUrl's" to divert attention away from the absolute pounding you have taken today.

Like my new location Wardog? Its great living in National Insurance.

HAHAHAHAHA
175

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28/01/2009 16:33:14
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Wardog™,

28/01/2009 16:40:43


224. Not more than a few days ago you and others were arguing that 'banter' in the pub about anyone with an english accent was racism......

Yet, here you are denigrating 1.6million confirmed scots speakers.....

Typical cringeworth unionist narrow mindedness.

And dare I say it, by denigrating your simply proving to all your detratcirs that you have no interest in Scotland.

Your form of 'unionism' is bankrupt, like the UK.


177

Wardog™,

28/01/2009 16:43:26

225. Northern Irish Unionism = Bigots

You must be so happy to be associated with such utter hyporcisy, gerrymandering, misogynistic, chauvinist, sexist, bigoted, racists ....... well doen rufus, you've reached the bottom.

What a cretin you are.


178

pwd,

Borders 28/01/2009 16:44:05
#186 Micjonger

Well said! What people call 'Scots' is a branch of English and is spoken with many variations by most Scots. These variations from town to town are what some people mistakenly call dialect. To talk about a Scots language other than English is utter fantasy. Gaelic doesn't count. It has always been a minority language and is insignificant in terms of any serious development of Scotland, especially in the modern age when the great men of Scotland operated in the standard English of the day. If anybody thinks the likes of David Hume operated in any of the many Scots variations of English then - dream on.

To do other than teach the standard version of our native language, English, in schools is to do serious damage to the life chances of many young Britons. There is ample evidence of this in the UK where the stumbling and hopeless attempts at articulation by so many young people unable to move beyond one or two hundred simple words is heartbreaking to watch. We have our share of them in Scotland.

The need for oral and written fluency in standard English is even more important when working in an international environment, as I did for over thirty years. Anybody lacking in that fluency was not going very far. It was a source of quiet pride that Scots performed well in that environment. Most were industrious, went about their business tactfully and performed in their own language, English, as well as any well educated native speaker should. What was gratifying was that most (not all) Scots accents had a pleasing effect and noticably added something to workplace interchange; that was a quality of diction and enunciation, especially when distinguishing vowels and consonants.

Sadly, one or two Scots felt the need to proclaim to the world in ugly exaggerated accents where they came from but despite their worst efforts Scots were generally valued and well received.

To deprive young Scots of access to these overseas opportunities on the groun
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pwd,

Borders 28/01/2009 16:47:04
Sorry Micjonger - the numbering has gone crazy.
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Wardog™,

28/01/2009 16:47:14


206. ha ha ha ha

You boys should really keep your swapping of autographed pictures of AM2 to the private forums....
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pwd,

Borders 28/01/2009 16:51:25
#214 - Last para should read;

To deprive young Scots of access to these overseas opportunities on the grounds of some fanciful notion of a 'Scots' language would be selfish in the extreme.
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Wardog™,

28/01/2009 16:54:39


214. Utter Tosh

The most common one is that Scots is just a dialect of English. To anyone who knows anything at all about Scots, or language in general, this is manifestly absurd.

First of all, Scots is not one dialect but several.

Yet Scots is the name applied to the way people speak everywhere north of the Tweed, which would seem in itself an admission that this is a separate language.

Your mistaken theory that Scots is a "corrupted" form of English carries with it a suggestion of inferiority that cannot be reconciled with the fact that our so-called "corrupted" language has from very early times produced a literature of the very highest quality, from the Medieval Makars to Hugh MacDairmid and beyond

No one is saying that English would be replaced by Scots in Scotland's Schools, the purpose of recognition is to suitably learn about this nations culture from the important manuscripts of our history through the Scots Quair to Irvine Welsh and Ian Rankin.


"....Sadly, one or two Scots felt the need to proclaim to the world in ugly exaggerated accents where they came from but despite their worst efforts Scots were generally valued and well received....."

That says it all, keep your cringe to yourself you imperialist imbecile.





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pwd,

Borders 28/01/2009 16:56:28
# 214
The #186 has become 170Micjonger.
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Wardog™,

28/01/2009 16:59:12
220.

"....To deprive young Danes of access to these overseas opportunities on the grounds of some fanciful notion of a 'Danish' language would be selfish in the extreme....."

Unbelievable stupidty from the imperialist unionists
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Mikey,

28/01/2009 16:59:44
214, you're an idiot.
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Wardog™,

28/01/2009 17:01:06


Scottish Budget rejected by parliament.....

Labour, Liberals and Green have just committed Political Suicide

het ready for your £100-200 hike in council tax.
187

JG,

Fife 28/01/2009 17:01:31
So, in order to teach children how to speak/write in their own local dialect (of which there are very many), we will drop what, exactly, from the current timetable? Maths? Because our children are SO good at numeracy, right? English? Their spelling is so top notch - no need for improvement there, eh? Science? Look how far up the international ability table we are in THAT!
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Wardog™,

28/01/2009 17:09:19


227. How about integrating it with English, History, Geography and Art or is that too clever.

You idiot
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Wardog™,

28/01/2009 17:12:52

What Labour, the Liberals & the Greens voted against....

Increase in Public Expenditure of £1.8BILLION
£300Million Accelerated capital expenditure
£60Million High Street Regeneration
£22Million Energy Efficiency measures for 100,000 homes.
Increase & Support for further apprenticeships
190

JG,

Fife 28/01/2009 17:13:18
#228 Wardog
"How about integrating it with English, History, Geography and Art or is that too clever."

What for? Why would you want to teach your children stuff like 'This hingy fae Michaelangelo' wis fair braw, by ra way.' Don't be so bl**dy stupid! And (since YOU were the one who started throwing personal comments) 'Wardog' and 'clever' aren't two words that belong in the same sentence!
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Stan Butler,

28/01/2009 17:28:44
#163 Ken

So people think they use the same language as others.

The 'separate languages' are mutually intelligible yet they are different because a linguist says so.

You're bullsh#tting.



192

pwd,

Hawick 28/01/2009 17:38:42
#221 Wardog #225 Mikey #218 Citizen Ken

My post at 214 was for intelligent and rational people, not for the likes of you. Please, therefore, be good enough keep your thoughts to yourself because they have no value or significance among thoughtful and civilised people.

Perhaps as you read this you will observe the langauge is good standard English and the register is polite. I commend them to you. With thought and practice you may reach such levels and be able to interact with others in a civilised manner. If so you will be fit to call yourselves Scots. Until then I have no more to say to you so goodbye and good luck.
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Wardog™,

28/01/2009 17:43:54


219. The 'Scots Quiar', burns and Scottish History are ALL ALREADY ON THE SYLLABUS you numptie..... why not extend that further and anaylse scottish culture through language....

Only in scotland do we have people like you that are embarrased with your own nations history, culture and language.

Anywhere in Europe, they'd be pointing at you and laughing.



222. Goodbye AM2

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28/01/2009 17:45:54
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Pilrig,

Livingston 28/01/2009 17:53:57
1 - ignorant t*t
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Pilrig,

Livingston 28/01/2009 17:57:56
204 - why no' go the whole hog and go back to calling oorselves North Britons ?
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Pilrig,

Livingston 28/01/2009 17:59:36
209 - severely afflicted with the cringe,
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Pilrig,

Livingston 28/01/2009 18:00:28
225 - he's product of the Peter Peacock school of non-learning.
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JG,

Fife 28/01/2009 18:01:01
#223 Wardog
Before you start throwing insults at people I would suggest that you read what they have actually said. I am all in favour of retaining the Scots language, tube, I just don't think we should sacrifice other parts of the curriculum to do it, idiot! I KNOW Burns and the other things you said are already studied at school, numpty, and the issue is that the SCOTS LANGUAGE should be studied at school, with all of the vagaries THAT would create, not studying the culture through language, which would be a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
I'm not at all ashamed of being Scottish nor of the language - only you son, only you!
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pwd,

Borders 28/01/2009 18:13:21
#225 T Alba

When you confuse a typo with substance you must truly be clutching at straws. Goodbye to you too.
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Pilrig,

Livingston 28/01/2009 18:21:50
230 - you're in favour of retaining the Scots language but you just think it shouldn't be studied or taught at school !

Peter Peacock had the same attitude towards the teaching of history.
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28/01/2009 18:22:13
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28/01/2009 18:31:28
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Stan Butler,

28/01/2009 18:37:13
#221 Citizen Ken

I read a few books on the subject when I studied English Language for a year at university.

I reckon I know just enough to know when people are bullsh#tting.

A language is described in jest as a dialect with an army. The trouble is the gnats don't get the joke and in the absence of an army they think they must have a language, a separate language, of their own.

All that the gnats on here know about the subject is the gnat propaganda they have swallowed whole. They have no understanding of the subject beyond reading party pamphlets.
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Pilrig,

Livingston 28/01/2009 18:42:48
235 - in other words it's slang. Us ignorant, indigenous Jocks should know oor place.
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Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 28/01/2009 18:47:35
Re #235 "A language is described in jest as a dialect with an army"

It isn't clear that this is entirely in jest. The point being made is that the distinction between the two categories is largely arbitrary, and often comes down to a question of political power.

If a government says that Scots is a language, and treats it as a language, that in itself is enough to make it one.
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Stan Butler,

28/01/2009 18:49:23
#236 Pilrig

Scots is a collection of dialects of English.

No one dialect is of any greater value than any other.


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Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 28/01/2009 18:57:44
Re #238 "No one dialect is of any greater value than any other."

Hitherto, that hasn't been the British establishment's position on the matter.
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28/01/2009 18:59:35
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Stan Butler,

28/01/2009 19:02:39
#241 Traquir

Already dealt with. Read the thread.
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Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 28/01/2009 19:03:45
Re #240 : "Perhaps you should correct the UK Government and the EU"

Basically I agree with the posting, but on a brief point of fact: the ECRML didn't originate from the EU but from another institution, the Council of Europe.
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28/01/2009 19:04:24
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28/01/2009 19:05:48
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Pilrig,

Livingston 28/01/2009 19:09:59
238 - in your opinion that is. Actually Lowland Scots, Doric, English, German, Flemish and Dutch are variations of the original Germanic tongue.
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Pilrig,

Livingston 28/01/2009 19:12:08
170 - an uneducated poster.
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Stan Butler,

28/01/2009 19:14:17
#239 Colin Wilson

In linguistic terms all dialects are of equal value.

Over the years there was been a process of standardisation whereby a particular dialect became regarded as the norm. There are obviously benefits in the process. The downside is the potential loss of dialects.

None of this makes Scots a language.

The notion that Scots is a distinct language is politically, not linguistically, driven.

Standardisation of language isn't confined to the UK.
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Stan Butler,

28/01/2009 19:20:01
Is Ulster Scots a language?
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28/01/2009 19:23:38
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Pilrig,

Livingston 28/01/2009 19:25:09
248 - aye
220

Pilrig,

Livingston 28/01/2009 19:28:34
The promulgation of the indigenous Scottish languages may be politically driven. The auld negative argument to deny them, deny the teaching of them, dismiss them as slang, most certainly was.
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Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 28/01/2009 19:30:02
I have spent most of my career working internationally, and I am quite clear on the importance of a fluent command of the English language, because nowadays it is the international means of communication. Others are aware of this too - for example, my son, who is presently on a year's appointment as a visiting professor at Prague University, was specifically asked to teach in English, although he is fluent in Czech as well as German, Russian and French. The Czechs have an eye to the future careers of their scientists as well as their national economic advantage.

I know of no state that would consider derogating its own language and culture. Bilingualism, or multilingualism, is the order of the day now. Of course young Scots must have a fluent command of English, if they want to get on, but that does not have to be at the expense of Lallans and Gaelic. I am much happier communicating in Scots than I am in English, German or French, my current working languages, and I intend to make exclusive use of it as far as possible when I finally retire.

Even Burns played to the gallery with many of his writings, in which he modified the language to make it more readily understandable to non-Scots readers - "Tam o' Shanter" is a good example that was written to order for publication. If you want to read pure unaffected Scots you have to go to less prominent writers like Burns's mentor William Ferguson. One of the best examples I know is the anthology of poetry by the ex-miner T.S. Law entitled "At the Pynt o the Pick", which is joy to read in the pure Scots of the communities that knew no other means of expression, as well as being an intellectual tour de force in its own right.

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Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 28/01/2009 19:30:09
Re #247 : "The notion that Scots is a distinct language is politically, not linguistically, driven."

That's true. So is the notion that Scots is NOT a distinct language. The definition of "language" is, in purely linguistic terms, largely arbitrary.

However, by the most commonly applied linguistic test — mutual intelligibility — Standard English and North-East Doric are different languages. As a speaker of the latter, who lived in London for ten years, I know this from personal experience.
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radge dug,

28/01/2009 19:42:10
Well, the Gaelic speaking kids have the real auld Scots tongue and have better English too. Why not have some of the Inglis dialect too.

Funny though, naming Inglis as Scots and Scottish as 'Gaelic' was one of the first anti-Scots measures to anglicise the auld Celtic Alba. I speak some 'Scots' but to hear middle-class professors saying 'ah dinny ken' sounds contrived.

Gaelic was and still is - certainly in place names and identity - the language of the 'Scots'.
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radge dug,

28/01/2009 19:44:54
#248 Ulster Scots is contrived too. Northern Ireland proddies used to speak Gaelic too. The last Presbyterian service in Gaelic was held on in the 6 counties in the 1920s. When Queen Victoria visited Belfast, she was welcomed with 'Cead Mile Failte'.

Language is not religion.
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Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 28/01/2009 19:54:31
#253: Since I have moved a lot in farming communities at the back o' Bennachie I agree with you on the status of North-East Doric as a language in its own right. Anyone who doubts this should get hold of a copy of the novel "Johnny 'Gibb o' Gushetneuk" by W. Alexander. Perusal of that, if they are able, would lead them to revise their ideas on what is or is not a language.

226

Eve,

Scotland 28/01/2009 20:15:09
#1 Rufus-T-Firefly: You can learn to read at any age. BUT your home culture is something that becomes more difficult learn the older you get.

Learning to read is a difficult skill to learn for most and some of us have had obsicals to get over to get our reading to an exsalent standard.

It all about not giving up on someone can't read or struggles.

I'm dyslexic and I was hart broken in my teens when I couldnae read the Broons. No one had taught me how to read the Scots, something I was embarsted about being Scot and being able to read it.
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Stan Butler,

28/01/2009 20:54:11
#254 radge dug

By 'Scots' do you mean the people from Northern Ireland who moved to Scotland in the 9th century bringing their Gaelic language with them?
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radge dug,

Machair na h-Alba 28/01/2009 21:06:17
Stan - recent archaeological evidence (as told by Dr Fiona Watson, Stirling Uni) points to Argyll and Ireland being settled by the Scots/Gael some 400 years earlier than previously thought.

This would put the Scottish/Goidelic presence here at roughly 2 thousand years.

But, your point is...?
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Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 28/01/2009 21:11:18
#258: They arrived in the 6th century, not the 9th. The Kingdom of Scots in Dalriada was established by Fergus Mor around the year 500 AD. Aedan mac Gabhran was consecrated King of Scots by St. Columba in the year 574 AD. By the early 9th century Scotland was already a united kingdom under Kenneth mac Alpin, some 200 years before neighbouring England, which at that time was divided into seven small kingdoms, as the Declaration of Arbroath points out.

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28/01/2009 21:49:47
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Stan Butler,

28/01/2009 21:50:31

Right lets get this straight.

According to Dr Wilkie the Scots arrived in Scotland in the 6th Century and according to dug they've been here for roughly 2000 years.

I'm glad that's cleared up.
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pwd,

Borders 28/01/2009 22:11:14
#261
Well said! I would add that the same overwhelming majority of Scots do not want a knowledge of it. We are far better off with our native language, English. That branch of English sometimes referred to as Scots or Lallans is best left where it belongs - as a day to day means of oral communication.
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Brian Hill,

28/01/2009 23:02:43
I think you'll find that it's not so much a case of teaching Scots as allowing natural speakers of Scots to speak, write and develop their creative language in their 'Mither Tongue'.

In other words, this is a long overdue recognition that content of thought and writing is infinitely more important than the mechanics of English grammar which will right themselves as time goes on.

Too many Scots kids, especially boys are totally turned off reading and writing essays because they are forced to use what is essentially a foreign language to them.

Develop thought processes in Scots first with English developing alongside but with English grammar taking second place to Scots initially.

All together, a very wise and long overdue decision.

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Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 28/01/2009 23:16:14
#260: The establishment of the Kingdom of Scots in the 6th century is well established. I was unaware of the archaeological evidence recently brought to light by Dr. Fiona Watson that the Scots were in Dalriada some 2,000 years ago, but i can accept it. At that time Britannia was under Roman rule up to Hadrian's Wall, while Caledonia was unconquered territory. I will be interested to hear more of Dr. Watson's recent discoveries.
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Brian Hill,

28/01/2009 23:22:57
I might add the Edinburgh Techniques website has a story going up in early February which is mainly in Scots and written with a football theme and has anti bullying and anti sectarian messages.

It will be downloaded as a Word document to encourage pupils to re write the story using the names of their their own family, friends, school and street names.

In short, we need to make lessons around the interests of school kids and in the language they use daily.
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Stan Butler,

28/01/2009 23:32:00
#262 brian hill

Do you think the same points apply to children in Yorkshire or on Tyneside or in Liverpool or Norfolk or Birmingham or anywhere else with its own dialect?
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29/01/2009 00:02:48
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Brian Hill,

29/01/2009 13:00:36
#265 Stan Butler asks:

Do you think the same points apply to children in Yorkshire or on Tyneside or in Liverpool or Norfolk or Birmingham or anywhere else with its own dialect?

Answer: Yes of course I do. Development of intellect is infinitely more important than development of the often artificial and certainly ever changing mechanics of grammar.
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Brian Hill,

29/01/2009 13:09:19
#266 Vincent-W

I take your point Vincent. I am one of thousands who successfully mastered a different written English from my spoken local street/home dialect.

However there are thousands of kids whose confidence and self esteem is badly dented by being told that their speech is effectively inferior to 'proper' English and that they must speak and write properly in class.

As confidence and self esteem are essential elements of the learning process too many of those kids simply give up on education altogether as said confidence and self esteem is dented on a daily basis.

What I am saying is that emphasis should be on intellectual development rather than mechanics of language which will develop with usage.
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29/01/2009 13:27:27
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29/01/2009 15:02:48
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radge dug,

29/01/2009 17:23:03
~Vincent - go and read your history - the tribe known as the 'Scots' spoke Gaelic. Their kings, cheifs and for the most part, armies, spoke Gaelic until James IV.

The fact that 90% of today's 'Scots' can't speak it does not detract from these facts. It's also why Gaelic is evidence from south to north in placenames, personal names and cultural markers.

Go and find out amadan.
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29/01/2009 19:16:38
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Calum Crubag,

29/01/2009 19:59:12
#272 - so people don't speak Gaelic and other languages? Ever seen BBC Eorpa? Not sure about you or others here but Gaelic is part of my life, in a modern context along with 3 or 4 other languages to some degree. Why ARE you so bigoted? How can you just dismiss 100k people and/or their language as a 'backwater'? How can a tongue be a backwater?

If this is the kind of 'reason' Catholic education churns out, then what they say about faith schools is correct - be they Catholic, Wee Free or Muslim.

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29/01/2009 20:43:32
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29/01/2009 20:47:09
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29/01/2009 20:48:36
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29/01/2009 20:51:53
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Calum Crubag,

30/01/2009 12:47:35
Well, guess what, twisted Vince on the PC all night. Catholics are a minority too. Church goers now represent only 10% of the population. Doesn't stop you though.

If the rainforests are threatened, do we respond by burning more?

Arguing with fantasists and bigots like racists, god squaders and the like is never rational. End of debate.
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30/01/2009 16:07:55
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Iain Mac,

30/01/2009 19:35:41
I'm not sure of the practicality of teaching in 'scots'. No one, including figurs such as J. Derrick Maclure can pinpoint where 'Scottish English' ends and 'Scots' begin. What is sure, is that kids should not be corrected or punished for speaking in dialect.

And Gaelic should be supported. It is the bedrock of our nation's identity and the benefits of bi/tri lingualism are proven for children.
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Gorach,

Freuchie 31/01/2009 03:00:06
Whatever is native to Scotland should be preserved.
It is ours and we should be proud of it.It matters not what others think.

That does not stop us from learning another language.


253

Calum Crubag,

31/01/2009 11:59:34
#256 True. I can speak both of Scotland's languages fluenty. How can this not be an advantage in understanding one's culture and heritage. I can also get by to varying degrees of fluency in 3 other languages.

Time to end the Scottish cringe. Suas leis a' Ghaidhlig!
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radge dug,

31/01/2009 14:55:26
Gu dearbh! Suas leis a' Ghàidhlig!
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Corky,

03/02/2009 11:32:46
Usitake ushindani huniwezi aslani
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cuthbert,

Barabhas 04/02/2009 06:38:36
"Scots is as much a language as Geordie, Scouse or Cockney."

Indeed. The difference being that speakers of 'Scots' very belatedly decided to stop calling their language 'English' (pedants/fantasists pretend that spelling it 'Inglis' gives it some different meaning) a couple of centuries after the Scots (i.e. Gaels) had won the Wars of Independence and only just over a century before the Union of Crowns with England. Lets not even mention the fact that for most of history speakers of 'Scots' (or rather "English", as they themselves would have referred to it) identified ethncially as English as well as linguistically. There's a damn good reason why the Lothians were historically known (by the English) as the "land of the English in the Kingdom of the Scots" back in the more honest days which saw Gaelic referred to as Scottish and the Gaels as the Scots.

Also, on the whole language/dialect thing and comparison with Geordie, Scouse etc; could someone explain to me why - despite the fact i dont speak 'Scots', dont know anyone who does (at least anyone who does to me or around me), despite the fact that i do not and have never lived in a region where people apparently speak it and despite the fact it is pretty much completely absent from Education/TV/Radio - i can still miraculously understand it (both written and spoken) fluently? Indeed i've always had a far, far tougher time comprehending people speaking in a thick Scouse/Yorkshire/Northumbrian accent than i ever have someone sweating away doing their damnedest to speak 'Scots' without using too much standard English amongst the archaic/provincial words which make up this cuckoo-chick of a pseudo language. The reality is that anyone who is a)fluent in standard English b)fairly familiar with the Scottish accent will have no real trouble deciphering anything written or said in 'Scots'.

Similarly, anyone fluent in English and familiar with the Newcastle accent would have no bother understanding Geordie or - shou
257

cuthbert,

Barabhas 04/02/2009 06:40:27
cont..

Similarly, anyone fluent in English and familiar with the Newcastle accent would have no bother understanding Geordie or - should some Geordie decide to write their English phonetically rather than by standard orthography - reading it.
258

Dòmhnall,

30/03/2009 18:00:00
Rufus-T-Firefly:
what is wrong with you? I read the Scotsman regularly on this website. You are always commenting negatively.
What do you do? What is your profession? Why do you have so much time to come onto this website?

PoliticiansAreAllTheSame:
You said you were born and raised in Inverness and many of your comments are negative. Do you mind if I ask you what your surname is?

 

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