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Holyrood and Westminster at war over oil and taxes



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Published Date: 30 May 2008
BIG guns were wheeled out yesterday in the battle over independence: their ammunition – oil and taxes. It is a battle that has been building for 21 years, ever since two Scots, then aged 33 and 32, entered the House of Commons as young and inexperienced MPs on the same day in June 1987. Yesterday, they clashed, not just as Scottish MPs from rival parties but as politicians at the height of their powers.
Alistair Darling, the Chancellor and Gordon Brown's closest political ally, was one; Alex Salmond, the First Minister and leader of Scotland's first Nationalist administration, was the other.

Mr Darling was first into the fray, using an interview with The Scotsman to launch his most sustained, detailed attack to date on the SNP's flagship policy of local income tax.

He didn't stop there. He also dismissed the SNP's call for oil tax revenues to be distributed to Scotland and for a "fuel tax regulator" to limit the rising price of fuel.

Within half an hour, Mr Salmond was on his feet at Holyrood, telling of the "fury" in Scotland over the UK government's refusal to use its oil-tax windfall to help families and companies cope with crippling fuel prices.

"A massive national outrage" was how he described Scotland's position as one of the world's top oil producers but with nothing to show from the massive extra revenues being generated as a result of rising prices.

Yesterday's clash showed how central the arguments over oil have become to the future, both of the government in Westminster and of the Union itself.

Faced with fuel protests in London, anger over rising domestic fuel prices and an economy under severe strain, the Chancellor knows the Labour government's hold is precarious.

The First Minister knows that, too, but he also suffers from the frustration of watching billions in extra revenue, which he believes should flow straight into Scottish coffers, propping up his political opponents in London.

Mr Salmond has had a fairly easy first year as First Minister – but a tough past week. For the first time, he has appeared on the defensive as experts and political opponents have undermined flagship policies on local income tax, the Scottish Futures Trust and his pledge to cut early-years class sizes.

It was in that context that yesterday's war of words took place.

The Chancellor was adamant: the SNP's "sums do not add up" and local income tax would be a "massive mistake". He went on to claim that, despite its claims to be waiting for answers from the Treasury, the Scottish Government was "refusing to talk" to the UK government.

Mr Salmond was equally clear about what he regarded as a betrayal by the UK government of Scotland's interests.

"I believe that we must, as a parliament and as a country, make a claim on the huge additional resources flowing into the United Kingdom Treasury as a result of sky-high fuel prices. That must be done, because that is where the financial flexibility is available to meet the pressures," he said.

Until now, the Scottish Government has isolated a number of issues, such as firearms legislation and control over fishing negotiations, as issues of contention.

Yesterday's decision to challenge the UK government so directly over oil showed that Mr Salmond is now prepared to put this issue right at the heart of his fight with ministers in London.

For the Chancellor, his intervention on the SNP's tax plans represents a clear signal of the determination of the UK Labour Party to take on the Nationalists on their own ground.

>BULLETS
'Daft tax that will damage Scots on world stage'

ALISTAIR Darling yesterday warned the SNP's plans for a local income tax (LIT) would be "a disaster" for Scotland's vital financial services industry.

The Chancellor argued that the Nationalists' tax plans would act as a deterrent for Scottish firms trying to attract high-flying business executives north of the Border.

Mr Darling also maintained that Alex Salmond's government had not approached the Treasury to seek to use Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) to introduce the tax.

Last night, Mr Salmond would only say that his administration was "in the process" of discussing the move with the Treasury.

The Chancellor's broadside – ahead of a meeting with leaders of Scotland banks, insurance houses and investment businesses today – signals an intensification of Labour's anti-SNP rhetoric.

Mr Darling, who has been under attack over everything from possible fuel duty hikes to threats by firms to leave the UK due to higher taxation, attempted to throw the focus back on the Scottish Government.

He said: "Local income tax would be a disaster for the financial services industry.

"If we are going to attract the best to come to and remain in Scotland, to tell them that you are going to be paying more income tax would be the completely wrong thing to do."

The Chancellor added: "I meet the Scottish industry a lot and it's the first thing they mention. They are concerned by this proposal.

"In terms of the analysts, the experts, the people who make this industry work, if you start losing these people who say, 'I think I'll go and work in London or another part of the world', that would be hugely damaging. That is why the industry is so exercised about it."

Executives in banks and insurance companies have remained silent in public on the issue, but Mr Darling's remarks are sure to strike a chord with them. Senior figures in the financial services industry – which accounts for around 7 per cent of Scotland's GDP and employs 86,000 people – have grave reservations over LIT.

Mr Darling refused to be drawn on reports that the Treasury believes the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to introduce LIT. He said: "There are lots of arguments as to whether it is legal or not. Our criticism is that I don't think it's workable. Scotland would lose out if we had a higher rate of income tax."

He added: "At a time around the world when, frankly, all governments are under pressure to reduce headline rates of tax, to be travelling in the wrong direction here is just daft.

"It is not just a UK argument, this is argument people all over the world will be looking at it. I think Alex Salmond and his colleagues should just put their hands up and say, 'Yes, we made a mistake, let's just abandon this', because it would be completely damaging."

Mr Darling also claimed that the SNP was not talking to the Treasury, which controls HMRC, over the issue.

He said: "To be blunt about it, the Nationalists are refusing to talk to us about it. If they thought this (policy] was a goer, you would have thought they would open up with us and say, 'Can we use the HMRC computer systems' but they have not done it."

Yesterday, the First Minister refused to go into detail on contacts between the Scottish Government and Whitehall.

Asked specifically about the issue, he told The Scotsman: "We are always raising issues and sometimes we get an answer, sometimes we don't. We are happy to discuss it. We are in the process at the present moment. We have a set of proposals."

Mr Salmond maintained: "We wouldn't introduce a taxation that would deal a blow to the competitive base of any industries in Scotland."

'Outrage' of soaring fuel prices in oil-rich Scotland

THE impact of rising fuel prices was yesterday branded a "massive national outrage" by Alex Salmond, who called on Alistair Darling, the Chancellor, to use some of his oil tax windfall to cushion the blow of high fuel prices in Scotland.

The First Minister said Scotland had been left in an "extraordinary position" with soaring prices at the pumps while every other oil producer in the world was benefiting from increasing revenues.

Mr Salmond told MSPs that the UK Treasury was expected to reap an additional £4 billion in North Sea revenues – on top of the £10 billion predicted from initial forecasts.

"There seems to be plenty of room for manoeuvre in order to implement some of the policies to reduce the impact of sky-high fuel prices on the people and industry of Scotland," Mr Salmond said during First Minister's Questions.

The SNP has been basing its demand for Scottish independence on oil for the last 30 years, but recent price hikes, which put oil at $130 a barrel yesterday, have given the Nationalists added impetus.

The price of oil has increased the amount of money going to the UK Treasury in tax – revenue which Mr Salmond believes should be coming to Scotland.

The subject of oil was raised in the Scottish Parliament by SNP MSP Jamie Hepburn, who claimed it was a "bittersweet irony" that Scots were missing out on increasing oil and gas revenues in the North Sea. Mr Salmond replied: "I think the mood actually is becoming one of fury in Scotland.

"That we alone among the oil producers of the world, producing ten times – ten times – our consumption of hydrocarbons at the moment, should be faced with an extraordinary position that while every oil producer, through sovereign funds and the build-up of huge sums of capital, has the resources available to power their economy into the future, what's left for the people of Scotland is paying sky-high prices at the pumps and the industries of Scotland facing escalating costs.

"A bittersweet irony? A massive national outrage – and it's time we did something about it."

Mr Salmond added: "I believe that we must, as a parliament and as a country, make a claim on the huge additional resources flowing into the United Kingdom Treasury as a result of sky-high fuel prices."

The SNP's plan for the first 100 days in government included a commitment to put in a formal demand for a share of oil revenues to come to Scotland. That was done in a low-key and largely symbolic fashion last summer and since then John Swinney, the finance secretary, has written to Mr Darling asking for oil and gas revenues to be transferred. He has yet to receive a reply.

This, though, is the first time Mr Salmond has used the public platform of First Minister's Questions to launch such a co-ordinated and acrimonious attack on the UK government over the issue.

The SNP wants Downing Street to introduce a fuel duty regulator which would use the increasing revenues from VAT to reduce the duty itself, helping the consumer.

This has secured limited support from a small number of Labour MPs, but not from the UK government.

Mr Salmond has often used Norway as an example, principally because the Norwegian government set up an oil fund ten years ago, saving oil revenues. The fund is now worth £170 billion.

But the Norwegians also pay the most in Europe for petrol, at £1.21 a litre, just ahead of the Dutch, who pay about £1.20. The average price in Britain is about £1.14 a litre.

However, yesterday's assault showed Mr Salmond is prepared to pick a fight with Gordon Brown and Mr Darling on an issue which is not only reserved to Westminster, but is central both to the UK economy and the case for Scottish independence.

No place for Brigadoon or Braveheart in the global economy

Scotland's financial sector must roll with the punches, reports Martyn McLaughlin

IF GOOD old Scottish prudence is to prove the buoy which keeps afloat the nation's financial services industry at a time when the tide of the global economy is turning, there can be no better example than Andy Hornby's last-minute decision to rename the title of his address to the country's key financial movers and shakers.

Having taken stock of the current economic climate, the 40-year-old chief executive of HBOS took his speech, initially branded "A Global Success Story," and amended it to "Delivering in a Tough World".

"We are," Mr Hornby confirmed to no-one's surprise at the inaugural Global Financial Services Conference (GFSC) yesterday, "in tough times."

Having started out as a squeeze before turning into a slump, the subprime mortgage troubles have, ten months on, accelerated into a full-blown international crisis. The blame may lie largely with US institutions, but Scotland's 300-year-old financial services sector is not immune from the fallout.

It is a frustrating situation, but one which Mr Hornby and his competitors yesterday sought to overcome. Held at the Edinburgh International Conference Centre, the GFSC gathered a spectrum of economists, senior officials, and academics to navigate a safe course through choppy waters.

Mr Hornby was optimistic, a feeling echoed by his colleagues in the industry. "We have to wait until well into 2009 for the return to what we might call a sense of normality," he said.

Caledonia, it transpired, had much to be proud of, traits which could help the sector roll with the punches.

"Scotland is a very successful brand, but it needs careful management and branding," said David Nicol, chief administrative officer of Morgan Stanley.

Dr Ken Lyall, chair of Walter Scott & Partners Limited offered a more offbeat take. "The Brigadoon and Braveheart image served to differentiate us in the 1980s. We exploited it ruthlessly," he said. "But as we developed, that kind of idea was marginalised. We're now operating in a global world."

Petrol 41p a litre without taxes

BRITAIN would have the second cheapest petrol and diesel in the European Union if government duty and VAT were removed, figures revealed yesterday.

Without the taxes, petrol would be 41.2p a litre and diesel 48.8p a litre.

Petrol costs around £1.14 a litre at the pumps and diesel £1.26 – provoking hauliers to demand a 25p per litre cut.

A 62 per cent tax share on unleaded was the third-highest out of all EU member states, the quarterly Energy Trends and Prices statistics produced by the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform revealed.

Philip Hammond, the Tory shadow Treasury minister, said: "Gordon Brown's claim that world oil prices are to blame for the soaring cost of motoring has been exposed as a sham."

He also attacked controversial plans to restructure vehicle excise duty, which could see drivers of less efficient older cars facing a big tax hike next year.

A Treasury spokesman insisted that the UK was generally a low-tax economy compared with other EU states.

BA prices begin to take off

BRITISH Airways is to hike the price of tickets as a result of the oil crisis – with holidaymakers and business passengers flying long-haul hardest hit.

The airline will increase its fuel surcharge by £60 from Tuesday on return flights lasting more than nine hours. Short-haul return flights will go up £6 while long-haul trips lasting under nine hours will increase by £30.

The move means passengers will pay from £32 to £218 in fuel duties on a BA return ticket.

BA said it would also increase its fuel surcharges by similar levels in markets outside the UK.

On Wednesday Sir Richard Branson's airline Virgin Atlantic announced fuel surcharge rises, although the carrier said that those sitting at the front of the aircraft would face higher charges than those in economy-class seats at the back.

In recent weeks airlines have announced cutbacks in services because of the sky-high oil prices while some carriers, including some operating between the UK and the United States, have gone out of business.

£225m plan for elderly

FURTHER details on how £225 million of funds being provided by energy companies will be used to help pensioners living in fuel poverty are due to be announced at Westminster today.

The government is to provide the firms with personal details of people claiming pension credits so they can receive fuel rebates and energy-saving grants to keep their homes warmer.

The move comes as Stephen Ladyman, a former Labour transport minister, called on Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, to "strike a new deal with the motoring public" and cut the tax on fuel when prices at the pumps are being driven up by global oil prices.

Mr Ladyman said a system akin to the "fuel duty regulator" proposed by the SNP should be introduced. This would return any increased VAT revenue received by the government from higher fuel prices into a cut in the fuel duty paid at the pumps – currently 50.3p a litre.

He said motorists were more likely to ditch Labour than give up their cars.

The full article contains 2835 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Richardinho,

30/05/2008 00:14:46
Alex Salmond is right; we are being shafted.
2

Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 30/05/2008 00:19:23
Most people on Skye heat their homes with oil. It has trebled in price in the lasy year. People are leaving because they can't afford to heat their homes. People will die this winter.

Petrol costs a fortune and food is much more expensive than in the cities. No Aldi or frozen food stores here.

Rural Scotland is facing a disaster and we, the 12th biggest oil producer in the world, are powerless to do anything about it.

Why any Scot does not support independence God only knows. It is an outrage what is happening.
3

peteedinburgh,

Edinburgh 30/05/2008 00:21:34
Spot the odd one out.

Its Wale's coal.

Its Lancashire's industrial revolution

Its London's financial markets.

Its Scotland's oil.


Yes, All have contributed to UK prosperity over the last 300 years but only one has been claimed as uniquely owned by the area in which it originates.

Selfish aren't we
4

M.T.,

30/05/2008 00:22:06
"BRITAIN would have the second cheapest petrol and diesel in the European Union if government duty and VAT were removed, figures revealed yesterday."

Cannot see Gordon Brown reduce taxes because he needs the revenue.

Businesses are rapidly going to the wall, particularly small businesses. House builders are only building housing estates they are already working on but not starting any new projects. This has a knock on effect. The confidence in the country is lower than I have ever seen.

If Gordon Brown does not reduce the tax on fuel then he must find a way to regenerate business, and soon.
5

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 30/05/2008 00:22:32
In the midst of this major crisis, magnified for Scotland, ALL political parties at Holyrood should be fighting Scotland's corner. Not just the SNP. This issue is much bigger than party political point-scoring.
6

Jimmy the Pie,

30/05/2008 00:23:31
What is really sad is the Scots who still want to be tied to the UK.

Who vote New Labour Sleaze and Corruption whatever they do to Scotland.

Just look at the last 10 years.

No more.

snp.org
7

Nikostratos,

30/05/2008 00:28:51
"fury" "A massive national outrage"

There Goes the First Minster again trying to stoke up anger and rage amongst the Scottish peoples.


'Can we use the HMRC computer systems' but they have not done it."

The snp have been saying the Government was refusing to let them use the system. And now it turns out that's not true or as most people would call it the snp 'lied'.

Why don't they just bring forward their silly little referendum Nicky said they would win easily so do it.

"the first time, he has appeared on the defensive"

Yep with power comes responsibility and Ole Alex and the snp are gonna be held responsible.......

8

Al Ford,

Insch 30/05/2008 00:30:38
As for Mr Salmond's reference at FMQs to the gravely anomalous position that Scotland is in whereby it is susceptible to being seriously harmed by the steeply rising cost of fuel without being able to reap the benefits of enhanced revenues, the people may well be willing to give the FM a hearing on this subject when we see the industrial and infrastructure fabric of Scotland being damaged because we are deprived of the means to do something about it. The serious problems which the rapidly rising price of a barrel of crude oil is beginning to cause in Scotland have every chance of being bitterly resented here as the Scottish Government hammers home the message that the rising price of this commodity could and should be to our advantage.

If the UK government remains unwilling to concede that power over oil revenues can be devolved, as it is elsewhere in the world, then the choice before Scotland, as the SNP will, of course, quite properly lose no opportunity to explain, will be: stay in the UK and watch the industrial and infrastructure fabric of Scotland be destroyed or opt for independence and economic salvation.

The oil-price crisis is not only an economic one. It is a constitutional one too. The nearer the price of a barrel of crude oil gets to the 200-dollar mark the more serious both aspects of the crisis will become.

At a certain point, when it dawns on the population as a whole that what we are faced with is so monumentally serious as to require us to rethink our whole attitude to the constitutional future of Scotland, a UK general election and an independence referendum will be at hand to allow us to give expression to any change of attitude which may conceivably occur.
9

Allan(handofgod137),

30/05/2008 00:30:49
Just a wee question here, if Scotland votes for independence, and the Orcadians and Shetlanders decide they'de rather go back to being Norwegian, and taking the oil with them, as our claim on it is based on their geographical position, how happy about this would you nats be?
10

Jimmy the Pie,

30/05/2008 00:31:46
Niko

You really are full of the smelly stuff, aren't you?
11

Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 30/05/2008 00:35:41
Allan

There is no independence movement in Orkney and Shetland. They are part of Scotland and proud Scots. I hope noone else responds to his comment.
12

Resolutions,

30/05/2008 00:36:40
Bluntly the tax on fuel is making it so expensive that the country cannot be competitive with its exports, cannot attract tourists - a major industry, cannot get food, even local food to the shops, and as a result is being crippled by Westminster and Westminster alone.

Is this being selfish? No its an attempt at sel-preservation.
13

Resolutions,

30/05/2008 00:38:07
Allan - not all the oil is in the Northern Isles section by any means!
14

Bird of Prey, Will watch what i say.,

Letterfinlay 30/05/2008 00:40:18
"The First Minister knows that, too, but he also suffers from the frustration of watching billions in extra revenue, which he believes should flow straight into Scottish coffers, propping up his political opponents in London."

Yes im sick of Scotland's oil wealth propping up them in the south and in particular the Southeast of England. The same fish face car drivers with high blood pressure that complain about England subsidising Scotland are the ones who are benefiting from our oil wealth.

Time to ditch the snobbery snoots who sponge of Scotland.

BTW my perch is made out of Royal Kent oak but that would not buy me a barrel of oil.

15

walter,

30/05/2008 00:40:56
Correct me if I am wrong and I am sure that if I am I will be corrected but do the North sea oil fields not lie in UK waters.
16

Jwil,

30/05/2008 00:41:15
And the good news is......? The Labour party have fallen back even further in the latest poll and Brown's popularity rating has taken a further nosedive. He should be in the Guinness book of records!

17

,

30/05/2008 00:42:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

Conan the Librarian™,

30/05/2008 00:45:05
10
Please Jimmy, Niko is "special" and needs encouraging comments.
His abuse of elipsis is merely him being dotty.
19

Bird of Prey, Will watch what i say.,

Lochaber 30/05/2008 00:46:40
And when i was on vacation down in Kent i was going to buy myself a wee weekend house but the cheapest tree house i could find was £678,000 . I told the local estate agent that i could buy a Scottish island for that and he said "Bird of Prey, in that case why don't you buy a Scottish island "? I told the git that all the Scottish islands that were for sale had no trees on them. i then fluttered back up north..
20

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 30/05/2008 00:46:48
7 Nikostratos

Yes, there is outrage if you speak to people in Scotland. It is a major crisis. Why, as usual, did you take the opportunity to political point-score? Why don't you stand up for the people of Scotland for a change?
21

ThomasP,

Scotland, Aberdeen 30/05/2008 00:47:14
The higher the price of fuel becomes the louder the claim for Scottish Independence becomes.

Go Brown!!!
22

Conan the Librarian™,

30/05/2008 00:47:24
14
Hey bird, went for the beer;-)
23

Bird of Prey, Will watch what i say.,

30/05/2008 00:48:40
#22 Conan the Librarian™

Good man Conan you deserve a wee beer x
24

Guga II,

Rockall 30/05/2008 00:50:47
And who shares the major portion of the blame for high fuel prices? The New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party, that's who. Their tax on fuel is nearly 70% of the pump price, and their greed is never ending. They even want to punish motorists further by upping the road tax, retrospectively, on most cars.

Maggie Broon may well come out with the bulldust that it is an international problem and that oil is now $135 a barrel, but the fact remains that countries like America only pay about £2 a gallon, or about 53p per litre. The Australians pay around 66p a litre. The fact that I have to pay in excess of £1.40 a litre is due solely to Maggie Broon's excessive tax on fuel.

It is a case of tax, tax and more tax, direct, indirect and stealth taxes. And what are they doing with all this money they are stealing from the public; other than funding illegal wars and lining their own pockets with their dodgy expenses claims?

The point also remains that an independent Scotland would not be having its resources stolen from them and exploited by a foreign government to subsidise a foreign country. Those Scots who support the Union are no better than the ones that sold us out in 1707. They are a Parcel of Rogues and traitors that are bought and sold for English gold.


25

Bird of Prey, Will watch what i say.,

left foot in right foot out 30/05/2008 00:52:21
I want more political news articles to sink my beak into, where are they, has that John Barnes given up on politics ? I am in the mood for some major panning..
26

Guga II,

Rockall 30/05/2008 00:52:46
#20 Andrew. Why would he stand up for the Scottish people? He is not Scottish.
27

Sanny,

30/05/2008 00:53:21
15 walter
You stand corrected Walter! The majority of the North Sea oil reserves are in SCOTTISH waters. This question has long been dealt with in the European Council.

28

Bird of Prey, Will watch what i say.,

30/05/2008 00:54:28
24 Guga rock

Good post but don't you dare up stage me, im the panning one..
29

Conan the Librarian™,

30/05/2008 00:56:18
Guga
I wonder how much money it takes for our highly trained soldiers to wander about London, dressed in red coats, with a bit of an endangered animal on their heid?
30

Bird of Prey, Will watch what i say.,

30/05/2008 00:56:23
#26 googa

Niko is Scottish, he has nothing under his kilt, mind you not much to look at the last time i looked anyway..
31

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 30/05/2008 00:56:43
Guga II

I stand corrected. That makes his comments even more outrageous though.
32

walter,

30/05/2008 00:57:41
#27
Are you saying that although Scotland is part of the UK Scottish waters are not.
33

Harry Shanks,

Rutherglen 30/05/2008 01:00:08
Correct me if I'm wrong, - when Alex Salmond was elected as FM did he not pledge to act -

"Wholly and exclusively in the interests of the people of Scotland"?

This is EXACTLY what he is doing on this issue and since the Wendy crew seem to expend a trememdous amount of time (and wind) blethering about people keeping their promises, I look forward enormously to
them backing Alex to the hilt!

Aye right!
34

Edward,

30/05/2008 01:01:43
Its a complete and utter disgrace that Scotland has been fleeced these past 30 odd years over Oil revenues
The only country in the world that is the 12th largest producer, yet does not benifit or receive any revenue from its oil wealth!
Compare this with the Provinces of Alberta and Newfoundland & Labrador in Canada they receive directly revenue from Oil, in fact Labrador were in volved in direct negotiations regarding revenues with the oil companies. The provinces also give a slice to the Federal Government in Canada.
The people of Scotland really should waken themselves up and realise how they are being shafted by successive Westminster governments. Scotland's Oil to them is the gift that keeps on giving
35

Bird of Prey, Will watch what i say.,

30/05/2008 01:02:14
#32 water or h2o

Scottish waters come under Scots law, go figure
36

Royster,

30/05/2008 01:03:09
The high oil price - which isn't so high if you factor in the strength of sterling - is due to speculators using it as a hedge against inflation and a weak US dollar. It is also a play on the growing economies of China and India (as it is not so easy to invest there directly). If Chinese growth slows, or the Chinese let their currency float, and inflation does not take hold in the US then the oil price could collapse. Of course taxes are too high but that is always the case with Labour and the SNP would be no better here. How many years was Scotland supported by England when the oil price was not so high and? What goes up must come down.
37

Royster,

30/05/2008 01:04:16
#35. Still UK territorial waters. I think you are referring to law used mainly for contractual disputes.
38

Bird of Prey, Will watch what i say.,

perch time 30/05/2008 01:04:17
The unionists counterbalance tonight is very poor and substandard, i shall go to my bed and come back and pan later on in the day when hopefully the debate is not as one sided.

I go sleep...
39

Bird of Prey, Will watch what i say.,

30/05/2008 01:06:46
# 37 Royster

No i am not..

The territorial waters thus defined as Scottish waters come under the jurisdiction of Scots law, and are also used for defining the area of operation of the Scottish Fisheries Protection Agency, the Scottish Environment Protection Agency, and other Scottish Executive agencies and public bodies. This is, for example, of importance to the Scottish fishing industry, the North Sea oil industry, and in the competing claims for the resources of the Rockall Trough.

The territorial waters thus defined as not being Scottish waters come under the jurisdiction of either English law or Northern Ireland law. Therefore, because it defines the territorial limits of the three separate legal states, it comprises a piece of constitutional law in the constitution of the United Kingdom.

40

Bird of Prey, Will watch what i say.,

30/05/2008 01:07:33
#37 Royster

You are as weak as AM2 , do you know him ?
41

Conan the Librarian™,

30/05/2008 01:08:59
36
Royster
By your comment "Scotland supported by England",
You seem to suggest that Scotland is now supporting England?
42

Bird of Prey, Will watch what i say.,

30/05/2008 01:09:18
I go sleep and shall come back later with some major panning.Night night
43

Edward,

30/05/2008 01:09:38
#32 Walter
If the uk was equitable in dealing with Oil revenues, it would have ensured from day one that Scotland received a sizable chunk of the revenues in recognition that the oil is in Scottish waters
It is after all a Scottish resource, like Hydro or coal, but Westminster saw this as a valuable cash cow that could finance projects in England. Scotland were never considered. An example of the duplicity of succeive Westminster governments is the now infamour McRone report of the 70's which was made top secret at the time and only recently released
44

Castaway,

30/05/2008 01:11:21
Norway, has used its "accidental inheritance" to set up a Petroleum Fund.
The fund was valued at $387.3 billion in March 2008, Norway's central bank reported.15/04/2008
45

Edward,

30/05/2008 01:13:02
If the uk was equitable in dealing with Oil revenues, it would have ensured from day one that Scotland received a sizable chunk of the revenues in recognition that the oil is in Scottish waters
It is after all a Scottish resource, like Hydro or coal, but Westminster saw this as a valuable cash cow that could finance projects in England. Scotland were never considered. An example of the duplicity of successive Westminster governments is the now infamous McCrone report of the 70's which was made top secret at the time and only recently released
46

Bird of Prey, Will watch what i say.,

30/05/2008 01:15:15
Oh okay then one last post, i do know my oil.

A secret Whitehall dossier 30 years ago warned of the powerful case for Independence with booming oil revenues, but the information was kept confidential to keep nationalism at bay.
The 1974 Scottish Office report written by Professor Gavin McCrone was classified as secret but was obtained by the SNP under Freedom of Information.

It shows the British Government was aware of the huge wealth of North Sea Oil; of the political implications; and that Scottish independence was not only theoretically possible but economically desirable:

"With oil at only $45 a barrel there is still at least a trillion pounds worth of oil left in the North Sea, at $62 a barrel there's 1.5 trillion pounds worth of oil. That's Scotland's oil.

"It's time we took control of our own assets and turned the corner for Scotland, changing us from a branch economy into a fully functioning, fully integrated global player. It's time for an independent Scotland. "

I now go sleep ...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
47

TommyKaye,

UK 30/05/2008 01:16:30
The SNP should really be targetting the Tories as Labour are finished they are dead they are no longer credible and they are deeply corrupt.

The poll out tomorrow shows that LAbour will nto be elected again for maybe decades.

The Daily Telegraph has a YouGov poll tomorrow, with the Conservatives on 47%, Labour on 23% and the LibDems on 18%. Compared to last month's poll, the Tories are up three and Labour is down three. It's the highest ever Conservative showing in a YouGov poll and Labour's worst poll since, well, ever - ever since polling began.
48

celtic4,

USA 30/05/2008 01:20:37
#15 The North Sea oil reserves are in Scottish Waters, not Englands. Sorry.
49

Jimmy the Pie,

30/05/2008 01:23:36
From today's Telegraph

Labour support has slumped to its lowest level since polling began, according to a Telegraph survey.
50

Edward,

30/05/2008 01:29:04
London born Alistair Darling is a qualified Lawyer
where as Alex Salmond is a qualified Economist
Hmmm difficult one that, would I trust a Lawyer or an Economist?
Then again Alistair Darling did run Edinburgh buses, when he was a councillor, not very well though. Alex Salmond was Oil economist for RBS
Think I wold trust Alex Salmond over a failed Lawyer that could run buses any day
51

Edward,

30/05/2008 01:33:15
According to the Telegraph poll, Labour are less popular that when Michael Foot was their leader!
It is the lowest level of support for Labour since pollsters Gallup first asked people to declare their voting intention in 1943, a few months before the Battle of El Alamein. Under Michael Foot support for the party never dipped below 23.5 points
52

Edward,

30/05/2008 01:35:12
Mind you, Labour do have two whole years to recover the situation, then again perhaps not!
Even if they did pull a rabbit out the hat and imrove, the best that they could acheive is a hung parliament with the Tories in charge!
53

Nikostratos,

30/05/2008 01:36:18
#26 Guga

GUGA'S second favourite insult 'Foreigner' Guga's best and most Favorite insult 'English'......

Love it Guga ha ha ha ha........

#18 conan

If it is good enough for TS elliot
54

sjs,

Edinburgh 30/05/2008 01:53:35
This outrage continues and we let it. It's partly our own fault. Why can't we have the referendum NOW. If its so important to you Salmond... please, just present your case in a week long conference, labour can say we should stay in the UK, then we can get to vote! I know I'm being over simplistic... but we just want to hear the cases put forward by each party and get to vote. I don't want another year of being shafted by England so give us our referendum NOW NOW NOW
55

ChinaBear,

Hong Kong 30/05/2008 02:43:15
Still don't understand how the oil is in Scottish waters? I thought that everything beyond the 3 or 10 mile limit was international water.
The North Sea was divided up under agreement many years ago into areas stating who had the right to drill where. Britain has an agreement to drill in an area of international sea, not Scottish sea.....
Mr Fish also fails to note the huge wealth enjoyed by Scotland that comes into Aberdeen as a direct result of the oil industry.
The fact is that Scotland will struggle to earn enough to pay the bills on it's own and driving top people away from the financial services industry through high taxes will exacerbate the process.
56

Royster,

30/05/2008 03:12:26
#39. So what? England, Scotland an Northern Ireland are not sovereign states and therefore cannot have territorial waters. These borders could be redrawn at anytime at the whim of the UK parliament in the same way as the UK parliament could redraw the boundaries of England and Scotland. Counts for nothing.
57

Royster,

30/05/2008 03:16:42
#33. 'Acting wholly in the interests of Scotland' instead of the nation as a whole shows why devolution isn't working. Most people put the UK above its individual parts.
58

Guga II,

Rockall 30/05/2008 03:26:52
#55 China Bear. I suggest you look up the Law of the Sea Convention on the Internet.

#56 Royster. We will regain our territorial integrity as well as all our territorial waters as soon as we are free from the dead hand on English Imperialism.

As for your "most people", "putting the YUK above its individual parts", this is according to whom? You and your fellow foreigners?
59

Guga II,

Rockall 30/05/2008 03:29:27
#58 Traquir. Talking of Quislings, Vidkun Quilsling was also a "son of the manse".

Also, Royster can be forgiven for continually attacking Scotland and the Scottish people as he is not, himself, Scottish.

60

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

Say it how it is! 30/05/2008 03:30:02
Its Scotlands Oil.

The people of Scotland deserve to get the benifit!

Its time to give it back.

Lets cut ourselves free of English tryany and march forward to prosperity and freedom.
61

Royster,

30/05/2008 03:32:51
#58. I'm British.
62

The Pict.,

30/05/2008 03:39:49
Royster # 58. You are English (or an English lackie) which is the same as British.
63

Royster,

30/05/2008 03:51:58
#65 et al. Has it ever occurred to you nationalist half-wits that some people may have both Scottish and English parents and relations? Perhaps not. It's the inter-breeding I suppose.
64

Royster,

30/05/2008 03:57:10
#65. Why do I have to make a choice because of your bullying rhetoric?
65

Royster,

30/05/2008 03:58:34
#65. England and Scotland are artificial constructs created by Norman kings. The British have been on this island much longer.
66

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 30/05/2008 05:01:58
Many Oil analysts are now subscribing to the Super Spike Theory.

In the Super Spike Theory Oil prices will continue to rise indefinately because some of the larger emerging economies continue to subsidies the cost of motor fuels.

Because their consumers are insulated from the higher prices on the world market, their overall Oil consumption will continue to grow.

Prices will continue to rise until either the Developed Worlds show serious drops in overall consumption or the developing economies run out of money to continue the subsidy.

Many analysts are predicting that Oil prices may exceed $200 per barrel by the end of this year.

As oil continues to rise the people of Scotland will become acutely aware that they have the most inequitable deal on Natural Resources of any country on the planet. Perhaps the only people who have been given as raw a deal are the people of the Niger Delta.

The twin realities of having your natural resources stripped out from under you for the benefit of another country, and being faced by a Tory Government in Westminster with no meaningful Scotish representation will finally be enough to persuade the Majority of Scots to support Indepenence.
67

Royster,

30/05/2008 05:19:55
#74. Back to the hectoring again I see. If Britain, in your words, is an artificial construct it has done pretty well for itself over the past few centuries. Indeed a lot better than its constituent parts have ever done. Being British, Scottish or/and English is not mutually exclusive unless you live in some kind of Brigadoon dungeons and dragons world.
68

Royster,

30/05/2008 05:24:06
#75. Sounds like you were a fan of the 'new paradigm'. Remember that? Did you invest in Enron shares and the internet bubble? If this oil price spike looks like a bubble and 'walks' like a bubble... then it probably is a bubble.
69

Royster,

30/05/2008 05:26:47
#72. I think you'll need the help of the Royal Navy if you want to start claiming oil around Rockall.
70

,

30/05/2008 05:32:39
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71

Royster,

30/05/2008 05:36:06
#79. Ho, ho. The great Burns enlisted in a unionist militia.
72

terry osser,

morden 30/05/2008 05:36:14
weve all been shafted by mr bean for 11 years.
73

Royster,

30/05/2008 05:37:41
#79. My compatriots are British and my country is the UK. I see you as the snivelling traitor.
74

Royster,

30/05/2008 05:43:31
#84. British, Scottish and English. Not too difficult to understand.
75

Royster,

30/05/2008 05:44:23
#83. Why would the EU give Scotland support for oil off Rockall if it got nothing in return?
76

,

30/05/2008 05:44:33
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77

Guga II,

Rockall 30/05/2008 05:57:18
#89 Traquir. He's not worth arguing with. Like all these Unionists, he obviously suffers from a split personality; and is obviously badly in need of medication.
78

,

30/05/2008 06:00:06
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79

Royster,

30/05/2008 06:06:20
#89. No, not considering that Scotland has been part of the union for donkey's years and that it has undoubtedly benefited from it and still does. North Sea oil is a very recent phenomenon. Personally I'd rather have the City of London than a finite resource such as oil with an extremely volatile price.
80

Saul Tyre,

Germany 30/05/2008 06:08:59
Aisdair Darling a big gun?????????????????????
81

Saint-Pierre Miquelon,

Oil Capital of Europe 30/05/2008 06:11:28
Scotland needs to preserve their precious oil & gas resources. The best way to do this is to cut the knot with England.

Think how much longer the oil will last without all those Chelsea tractors burning OUR petrol?
82

Royster,

30/05/2008 06:24:53
#95. Are you suggesting we close down the North Sea oil wells when the price is at $131 per barrel?
83

,

30/05/2008 06:25:27
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84

Damy Ruby,

Edinburgh 30/05/2008 06:25:29
The big thing this article missed is that Darling and his boyfriend Brown will soon be either lowly useless backbenchers or unemployed. Imagine Darling having to fuel his own car like the rest of us. He was an idiot when he was in transport and he is still and idiot

BROWN: GO
DARLING: GO

PLEASE
85

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 30/05/2008 06:26:17
#77 Royster

No there is nothing "New Paradigm" about this. This is basic economics. It is simply supply and demand.

World Oil capacity, despite massive sums spent on exploration, has been relativly static, growing by only 1 million Barrels per day over the last five years.

The demand side of the equasion is growing at 1 million barrels per day every year.

Normally high oil prices would slow down demand and increase efforts to create new supply.

Despite a 400% increase in price over the last five their has been only modest increases in supply.

Consupmtion growth has been fed a growing middle class in India, China and Indonesia. The developing economies are insulating their consumers from the World Price.

While you are paying over a pound per litre of fuel, I am paying 25p. I have no hard choices to face that may curb my consumption patterns.
86

,

30/05/2008 06:27:58
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87

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 30/05/2008 06:31:47
#92

I think Gordon Brown would rather have the Oil Companies since they now contribute more in Corporate Taxes (9.9 Billion this year)than the entire Financial sector.

http://www.economist.com/world/britain/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11458232
88

dave A,

NZ 30/05/2008 06:32:27
Why doesnt Scotland declare war on England ? I need a good laugh go for it