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Glasgow East by-election: Abortion and embryo controversies back in spotlight for final days of campaign



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Published Date: 19 July 2008
CATHOLIC churches are alerting parishioners to the views of the Glasgow East by-election candidates on abortion and embryo research days before they go to the polls.
The Scotsman has learned that information detailing the position of the four main candidates is being pinned to church noticeboards.

An anti-abortion campaign group, Right to Life, has sent letters to 11 churches in the constituency spelling out t
he beliefs of Labour's Margaret Curran, the SNP's John Mason, Ian Robertson of the Liberal Democrats and Tory, Davena Rankin.

It comes after the leader of the Catholic Church in Scotland, Cardinal Keith O'Brien, described the controversial Embryology Bill as "monstrous".

This week the Bishop of Motherwell, Joseph Devine, in a letter to The Scotsman, said Labour had "introduced more anti-family and anti-life legislation than any government in living memory".

Parish priests said they would not be instructing their flocks how to vote but would emphasise their "moral obligation" to cast a vote.

Labour's Ms Curran believes that a high turnout will boost her chances of success. She told The Scotsman: "One thing I'm picking up is that all the details on human embryos is not a party political issue. People across the parties take different views. It's very much a moral conscience issue."

She refused to discuss whether she held religious beliefs. But she added: "I have got a good relationship with the churches in my constituency. I absolutely respect their morality and their ethics."

Father Allan Cameron, of St Jude's Church in Barlanark, has posted the Right to Life leaflet in his church. He said: "It will be an issue, but I don't know if I would say it was a key issue. It would be something that church-going Christians would take into account. I don't think the Catholic population is any different from anybody else from that point of view. There are people who are life-long Labour supporters, people who are life-long SNP supporters, and people who have a life-long antipathy to politics."

Monsignor John Woods, of St Joseph's in Tollcross, said: "I think I will say to them on Sunday that we have discussed this already at various meetings. All I ask is that you make use of the vote you are entitled to."

He felt he had seen little change in the constituency's problems over the past 11 years.

"Obviously crime, poverty, unemployment, alcohol and drug abuse – these are things that are the real scourge of the community.

"There is better housing but sadly we have got a bad record of voting in this constituency. I would hope in this election, since the spotlight is very much on them, that people will make use of their vote."

Father William Moran, of St Anne's in Parkhead, said: "I pray that people exercise their democratic right to vote and that it will be for the best for the local community and the success of the whole UK."

He said he would not be telling others how to vote, but said: "I'm pro-life. I'm abhorred by abortion. There's no question it's one of the most awful scars on our society. The denial of the right to life by another human being is the most awful decision. We have no right to say somebody else shouldn't live."

Phyllis Bowman, Right to Life's campaign director, said: "People resent being told how to vote. But whatever my decision, I would still want to know whether I was voting for a pro-abortion candidate or one who was against abortion on demand."

Where the candidates stand on difficult issues

MARGARET CURRAN (Lab)


Backs the current 24-week time limit on abortion and supports Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, on the embryology bill at Westminster, which updates the law on human-animal "hybrid" cells for research.

JOHN MASON (SNP)

Opposes abortion on demand and so-called "social abortion". Is "extremely uncomfortable" with embryo experimentation.

However the SNP allows its MPs a free vote and he would listen to all views before voting.

IAN ROBERTSON (Lib Dem)

Supports present abortion laws and backs the embryology bill.

DAVENA RANKIN (Con)

Supports the present law on abortion and would also back the embryology bill.



The full article contains 717 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Rufus T. Firefly,

19/07/2008 00:08:06
Cardinal O'Brien says it's immoral to use human embryos when researching possible cures for diseases such as Parkinson's and Alzheimer's.

Surely it's far more immoral to pass up the opportunity to find a cure for these killer diseases?

I wonder if the Cardinal's opinion would change if he himself was afflicted with such diseases.
2

Rufus T. Firefly,

19/07/2008 00:09:55
Scientists should be able to find cures using these methods - and if anybody finds these methods unethical then they should deny themselves the cure if ever they are struck down with said diseases. Problem solved.
3

Rufus T. Firefly,

19/07/2008 00:14:31
I'm continually hacked off with them sticking their two bobs worth in to every debate that goes on in this country, and the sooner somebody tells them to wind their neck in and give us peace the better.

They are not a church. They are rapidly turning in to an unelected political party and we are supposed to toe the party line as far as they are concerned. I hear more of them than I do the actual opposition parties. Something just not right with that.

They want to run the country, then put themselves up for election. Lets see where that gets them.

As for the debate on the research, the answers on this board already. Don't agree with it, don't accept any of the treatment. Simple. Don't hinder the people that do need and want it though.
4

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/07/2008 00:27:52
Why does Scotland have to suffer the media's parochialised fixation on religion in Glasgow?
5

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/07/2008 00:30:57
Do weegies give a hoot about the importance of a bull at the Perth market?
6

,

19/07/2008 00:34:25
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7

Darien,

Panama 19/07/2008 00:34:36
Problem in this constutency as in many others is lack of education among voters. The poorly educated don't really know what to vote, or mostly don't vote. Ignorance is not really bliss. If they had any intelligence they would vote SNP - its quite obvious Scotland would be one of the most prosperous nations on the planet. But voters in Glasgow East still need a wee bit education to figure that one out. If they had any memory they would see what voting Labour for the past 30 years + has achieved - i.e. Zip! But don't hold yer breath. Scotland never ceases to amaze.
8

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19/07/2008 00:36:24
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9

Numpty Heid1952,

Ayrshire 19/07/2008 00:37:25
Why do these people wish to FORCE their religious beliefs on me.

10

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19/07/2008 00:37:54
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19/07/2008 00:40:09
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12

Numpty Heid1952,

Ayrshire 19/07/2008 00:40:14
We have sons and daughters of this dear land fighting and dieing in Afghanistan against religious zealots "The Taliban" who are trying to force their religious and moral code on people.

No one has the right in this democratic land to force their moral code or religion on me.

13

Numpty Heid1952,

Ayrshire 19/07/2008 00:42:47
#12 Brandain.

No thank you LOL.

He is MSP up Edinburgh way now.
14

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19/07/2008 00:42:52
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15

Wee Hugh,

19/07/2008 00:44:22
#1

The point about an objective morality is that it is independent of any person's own particular circumstances or perspective. A thing is either right or wrong irrespective of circumstance.

Cardinal O'Brien's own particular health issues would not change the rightness or wrongness of embryo experimentation.

This is not a position widely accepted today as for many the saying 'well, it's ok for me' or 'no-one else can tell me what's right or wrong'is the basic moral position. The very existenece of long standing civil laws is a denial of this position.
16

psycho,

edinbra 19/07/2008 00:44:59
Labour are an anti life party(apart from a few individual politicians who have adopted an ethical stance)and will fail in the longer term because no thinking person will trust them
17

Numpty Heid1952,

Ayrshire 19/07/2008 00:47:52
#15 Brandain

Moral and religious codes are a very private and personal thing and I am stunned to see the stance that "some" sections of society are taking.

Everyone has a lawful right to refuse ANY treament they wish. They do NOT have the right to deny me that (possible) treatment.

I have asked WHY do they feel they have the right and yet to receive an answer.
18

Darien,

Panama 19/07/2008 00:49:55
Dinnae see much o' the Taliban doon the Co-Op these days. Suggest (withoot coercion) ye get yersel tae the Kirk this Sunday, in this "democratic land". A wee lecture wid dae ye guid, hen.
19

Wee Hugh,

19/07/2008 00:50:35
#18

Why do Churches not have a right to express an opinion in matters of public policy. Each person has a right, groups have rigths. You wouldn't say that Greenpeace or Stonewall couldn't speak out, why not the Catholic Church?
20

Numpty Heid1952,

Ayrshire 19/07/2008 00:53:47
Greenpeace and Stonewall are not forcing agendas that will bring about the death of innocents.

21

Wee Hugh,

19/07/2008 00:54:54
So who decides which groups have a rigth to speak? Or how is it to be decided?
22

Numpty Heid1952,

Ayrshire 19/07/2008 00:57:31
This is not a right to speak, this is a group of people who want me to go away and die because of their religious belief. They have no right to do that.
23

Wee Hugh,

19/07/2008 01:01:16
When did anyone say that they wanted you to go away and die?

Does a group like Exit have a right to speak (they advocate assisted suicide)? If they can say that does no other group, religious or not, have a right to oppose them?
24

Numpty Heid1952,

Ayrshire 19/07/2008 01:03:20
I have received more help from exit that I have from any religion.

NO ONE has a right to tell me to go away and die because it might offend their religious beliefs.
25

AM2,

Scotland,UK 19/07/2008 01:03:26
If this was the only issue, I might vote for John Mason. Ahem! As if!

But if it’s moral issues we’re discussing, why is the SNP trying to give voters the false impression that voting their man into the seat would put an extra £48 per household per week (£2500 per year) into their pockets?

An SNP election leaflet reads: “£48 extra per household. Isn’t it time you got your share of Scotland's oil windfall? SNP On your side”

http://tinyurl.com/5daboj
26

Numpty Heid1952,

Ayrshire 19/07/2008 01:04:57
If you do not wish to take any treatment, then do so.

Do not deny me it.
27

Wee Hugh,

19/07/2008 01:06:22
Numpty Heid,

You haven't answered any of my questions. You just keep repeating the same thing.

What's your problem?
28

Numpty Heid1952,

Ayrshire 19/07/2008 01:07:52
what questions

You haven't answered mine.
29

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19/07/2008 01:08:36
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30

Wee Hugh,

19/07/2008 01:08:58
You haven't asked any questions, just made assertions. Give me a question!
31

Numpty Heid1952,

Ayrshire 19/07/2008 01:09:18
They are oot to get you Brandain LOL
32

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

19/07/2008 01:09:57


Curran is heading for a fall this week.

her continual feigning 'I respect your position' nonsense is political mumbo jumbo, ,

She is full of empty promises and it's starting to trip her up as she makes promises that she either can't keep or has indeed already voted against....

How Margaret Curran voted on key issue

Voted Against returning Attendance Allowance to pay for Free Personal Care [italic]despite Lord Sutherland's Report saying it should and despite Margaret Curran saying, on behalf of the Labour party, saying they fully accepted the report.[/italic]

Voted against scrapping the Council Tax

Voted to hamper councils building new council houses by not restricting right to buy legislation.

Voted against scrapping the graduate endowment fee

Failed to support a freeze on the Council Tax. (Abstained)

Failed to support record spending for local authorities. (Abstained)

Failed to support reducing prescription charges - a tax on the ill. (Abstained)

Failed to support 1000 extra police officers on Scotland's streets- there will 750 extra in Strathclyde. (Abstained)

Voted against new patient rights.

Failed to vote against the development of Trident II

Voted to spend half a billion pounds on a tram line in Edinburgh - money which could, in part be spent on key transport objectives in Glasgow.

Supports £500,000 per child ASBO's
33

Numpty Heid1952,

Ayrshire 19/07/2008 01:10:50
#18<-------------- SEE


I have asked WHY do they feel they have the right and yet to receive an answer.
34

Numpty Heid1952,

Ayrshire 19/07/2008 01:16:24
Anyway, while I STILL wait on an answer, I will say goodnight.

35

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19/07/2008 01:17:45
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36

Wee Hugh,

19/07/2008 01:18:57
#34

The position of people who oppose embryo experimentation is that it violates basic human dignity. To say that the main criterion for judging the rightness of an act is whether it produces something which is useful means that practically anything is allowable in theory.
It is ironic when there is growing opposition to animal experimentation that there is a campaign to allow such experimentation on human embryos - and the important word here is embryo.
You may not agree with this position, do you not want to hear opposition to your position. If you don't, that's hardly democratic.
Is your problem with the source of criticism, if so then that begs all sorts of question. I only ask again why should the Catholic Church not have the right ask people what such experimentation does to human dignity?
37

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19/07/2008 01:21:22
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38

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19/07/2008 01:24:30
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39

Numpty Heid1952,

Ayrshire 19/07/2008 01:26:01
I thought you were a reasonable person Wee Hugh.

You now try and imply biggoted issues on my part.

"Is your problem with the source of criticism, if so then that begs all sorts of question". SHOCKING, I do not have an ounce of bigotry in my body sir.

This is not about democracy, this is about people forcing me to live under their religious beliefs. That is the bigotry.

Human dignity? Do you know or even start to understand the lack of human dignity that is involved in some of these diseases. Why should someone be made to suffer because of someone elses religion. That is The Taliban mentality.
40

Numpty Heid1952,

Ayrshire 19/07/2008 01:28:12
Me to Brandain.

I am off to sleep before I get accused (implied)of something else.
41

Wee Hugh,

19/07/2008 01:32:30
Numpty,

Thought you had gone to bed. It's not about religion it's about who we are as human persons. You're view is different from that of mine.

Your assertions are not part of rational debate, they are deeply felt and so emotive statements. Your motivation for such emotive assertions is not clear, one inference is bigotry, another perhaps that you or a loved one suffers from some tragic illness.

As I asked earlier, what is your problem? It's obviously got you all worked up.
42

monkey man,

19/07/2008 01:38:49
# 39 Wee Hugh


The RC Church is perfectly entitled to its view but for them to disingenuously state they aren't telling its punters how to vote when they clearly are. They are dangerously bringing religion and sectarianism into this eletion by their seedy behaviour.

We were warned repeatedly that with Devolution would also come the inevitable grab for power and influence at Holyrood from the extreme right-wing RC Church and the then Archbishop Winning didn't disappoint with his emotional blackmail of Scottish RC Labour politicians within the "parliament".

With wee Fatty Salmond now openly courting these theological throwbacks this is a warning of dark times ahead for the future of both women and the gay community in Scotland.
43

Wee Hugh,

19/07/2008 01:41:39
Monkey Man,

Who warned us?

What's a theological throwback?

44

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19/07/2008 01:43:56
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19/07/2008 01:45:28
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46

monkey man,

19/07/2008 01:47:21
# 46

Who warned us.? Every nation from history where extremist right-wing Roman Catholicism has been forced on populations, fascist Spain and Italy as classic examples.

Definition of a theologial throwback.? Those attempting to introduce bigotry and sectarianism into this election.
47

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19/07/2008 01:48:54
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48

Wee Hugh,

19/07/2008 01:49:38
#49

Dear, dear. Someoone else who needs to calm down.

49

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19/07/2008 01:51:29
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50

BIG EYE,

Paisley 19/07/2008 01:51:42
I am not a catholic but I am a christian and I abhor what the Abortion Act has led to.

As a christian I could not vote for any candidate who supports this act.
51

monkey man,

19/07/2008 01:51:59
# 51 Wee Hugh

Its only you telling everyone to calm down for some strange reason. Everyone else is mellowed out, maaaaaaan.! lol
52

Wee Hugh,

19/07/2008 01:53:23
#54

Aye right!
53

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19/07/2008 01:53:47
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54

monkey man,

19/07/2008 01:56:31
# 55 Wee Hugh

Take a chill pill, ma man.! As they say in the fashionable salons these days. lol
55

Wee Hugh,

19/07/2008 01:58:17
# Monkey

I am so chilled I am now going to bed. No doubt we will meet again in this space.

Be good.
56

monkey man,

19/07/2008 01:59:38
# 58 Wee Hugh

Don't have nightmares, wee man.! lol
57

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 19/07/2008 02:02:15

Good on you Ms Curran!

The 'Laughing Hyenas' that wanted this 'act' to go through, have NO idea, NO idea atall!
58

clochoderic,

renfrewshire 19/07/2008 03:28:14
Ms. Curran`s quickfire staccatto of soundbites and oppositionist posturing is laughable.
The lady is a careerist New Labour drone incapable of telling the truth.
Labour are in big trouble here ...
59

LEAL,

19/07/2008 07:12:12
Mrs Curran says she respects the various churches morals and ethics.I dont think anyone should listen to her opinions on morals and ethics when she is a proven liar.
Reekie Drawers Curran just cant help herself.Compulsive.She has about as much grasp of the truth as the Disgraced Alexander(wendy).
60

Scunner,

Ellon 19/07/2008 07:14:28
Abortion is murder in my opinion. My partner had her 12 week scan recently and it was amazing to see the baby moving. How can someone kill their own flesh and blood?....crazy.
61

C. RAB.BIT,

FIFE 19/07/2008 07:47:18
DID SOMEONE SAY "MORE ANTI FAMILY ---- IN LIVING MEMORY"
SHORT MEMORY WHEN IT SUITS. MY MOTHER HAS A LIVING MEMORY
AND CAN REMEMBER HITLER AND HIS GOVERNMENT,AND IF YOU LISTEN CAREFULLY YOU CAN STILL HEAR THE ECHO OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH RUSHING TO THE AID OF THE CONCENTRATION CAMP VICTIMS,OR IT MAY BE INQUISITION VICTIMS,OR THE POPE APOLOGIZING FOR PRIESTS SEXUALLY ABUSING CHILDREN.THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS GIVING RELIGION A BAD NAME
62

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 19/07/2008 07:48:49
Nice coming from a Church with a past,recent history off sexual intimidation and abuse against young women entering the "NUNNERY" when pledging to help the poor, ignorant and illiterate.
NEVER forgetting the catalogue off sexual abuse world wide of many off their clergy on innocent children.
What loving and caring people to have the gall too preach morality to the masses!
63

The Tin Man,

19/07/2008 07:49:23
Advanced scientific research is a subject that is crucial to the inhabitants of Easterhouse.
64

gerry2,

19/07/2008 07:53:26
#8 Darien.In the light of your post I don't think you're particularly well placed to comment on others intellectual deficiencies.

Re the question of Abortion and embryology being relevant to political debate,only an idiot would have an ambivalent attitude towards these issues.Of course it's highly important.The Church is not ramming views down anyones throat.It has a right to free speech like everyone else.These issues have been the subject of considerable political debate for many years.No one has denied the importance and validity of such debate.But when the Catholic Church opens its mouth suddenly the debate is no longer valid.So typical of the best small bigotted country in the world.
65

eric,

lothian 19/07/2008 08:16:56
This is the same cardinal who had a pacmaker fitted tut tut!Glass houses and all that.
66

eric,

19/07/2008 08:25:01
Be interesting to see curran explain leaked documents about Paying private firms BOUNTY to take every jobseeker for 2 yrs then after that they will attend jobcentre every day to sign for workfare placements.Talk about Alienating yourself!.
67

Gdgy,

dundy 19/07/2008 08:31:21
I am amazed by the SNpites veherment slagging off of the intellectual ability of the electorate in Glasgow East...they consistently slagg them of for so dense as to vote Labour.....shouldn't they be trying to get them to change their minds????
This wholescale smearing of the electorate suggests that the SNPites have given up....they know they have offered noting new to the people of Glasgow East and their 10 watt candidate (who has the charisma and demeanour of a man who has lost a fiver)has impressed no one....not even the most fervent SNPite...
68

Richardinho,

19/07/2008 08:44:26
If folk in Glasgow East vote according to their consciences, that's a lot better than voting for a party 'because my grandfather did'.
69

Longdirk Maceth,

NZ 19/07/2008 08:50:10
AM2: What you’re saying the SNP are saying they can put money in the pockets of the people as apposed to Tony B.Lair telling us that the SNP government would cost each family in Scotland 5000 pounds a year!
Hmm….now who should I believe?

So do you still think we should all vote Tory?
70

Nikostratos,

19/07/2008 09:02:46
#26

How to Get Made and M.P...........snp style

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/PRrotten.JPG
71

Nikostratos,

19/07/2008 09:04:59
#75

That depends on whether they are willing to pay £50 for your vote.as the snp would(and do) say
72

chico y,

Alba 19/07/2008 09:13:11
Curran and her liebour colleagues would use the £50 for their own expenses.
We're not hearing much about the outgoing MP's expenses, should the authorities not be looking in this.
73

lulach mac gille coemgain,

19/07/2008 09:20:40
God will sort it all out - you can see the worlds no’ in a mess cause he watches over us !
74

JG,

Fife 19/07/2008 09:22:50
#67 gerry2
It isn't "the Catholic Church" that has an opinion, it's the MEN who are running it. Of course everyone is entitled to their personal opinion on any subject at all, really (yes, even all of those misogynistic cardinals) but I don't remember voting for any of those priests who are trying to influence public opinion.
75

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 19/07/2008 09:26:32
I do not agree with the catholic church on this issue.

If they encourage people to think more about who they vote for in Glasgow East rather than just voting labour then it will be a good thing for the people of that area.

Labour has failed Scotland and Glasgow in particular. You do not need AM2 statistics and surveys to know that Glasgow has been failed.

All you need are a pair of eyes. Hopefully Glasgow is starting to awaken.

76

Ned,

Morningside 19/07/2008 09:27:42
#35.
Sir ( or Madam ).

If you represent a SNP view then I can only hope that the Haggis party NEVER get independence.

People are going to differ in this very imortant subject but surely we can keep the low and vulgar attitudes out of this.

I dont live in the Glasgow East electorate bit if I did I would vote for Davina.

Also when I vote again it will not be for Labour or SNP.

This is my democratic right but I dont really think you understand democracy ( unlike AM2 ).
77

ThomasP,

19/07/2008 09:27:44
77 Nikostratos.

It is far better then Labour, who take all your money then kick you where it hurts when times get tough.
78

mr angry,

ayrshire 19/07/2008 09:28:30
Numpty Heid, you are well named. We live in a democracy and people with religious views get the same vote as you do, ergo , if more than 50% vote for something then it is acceptable.
You are entitled to have your view but I fail to see why you expect that anybody that has religious views should not also have the same rights.
Think you need to get a grip and control the paranoia.
79

Pink Sombrero,

19/07/2008 09:40:57
26. AM2

you are spinning like a top, and a ridiculous one at that.

You defend time and again Labour's "£5000 SNP tax bill, how will your family cope" slogan, which was used in broadcasts without any context other than a vote for the SNP will cost you £5000, which was palpably and plainly false, and now you take umbrage at the SNP stating a fact that the treasury are receiving £6.5 billion in oil revenues this year.
80

Pink Sombrero,

19/07/2008 09:43:46
77. Niko

yet more desperate Unionist spin and panic.

The SNP have never bought a vote or offered to pay for one.

The Labour party have however admitted 120 counts of law breaking relating to election finance, have a former cabinet minister currently facing criminal investigation, had their Scottish leader resign over illegal donations, and Labour party election fraud has been described by a judge as "disgraceful for even a banana republic".
81

ThomasP,

19/07/2008 09:56:05
87 Pink Sombrero.

When a Political Party reduces taxes or similar things then that is almost like saying voting for me saves you a hundred quid per year.
82

Bermuda Bie,

Edinburgh 19/07/2008 09:58:22
8 darien Panama
wow - get a bit closer to Scotland and have a laugh a day at Chubby Cheeks and his Numpty party antics and you would not be making these comments. I say laugh but seriously this sad party is taking only easy options and ignoring real issues yet all the while dreaming about oil and gas that does not belong to Scotland. We are doomed I tell you!!
83

Pink Sombrero,

19/07/2008 10:03:33
88. Thomas

possibly - the SNP could justifiably claim that freezing the council tax and lowering prescription charges is saving people money, or that Labour abolishing the 10p tax band or increasing vehicle duty is costing people money, but I think Niko was suggesting the SNP were trying to "buy" votes. As Niko is 94 years old and often a tad confused, we will maybe put it down to discombobulation on his part.

84

Media 1,

cape town 19/07/2008 10:06:32
Here is the thing! The church know that there is no god, they are not that daft. But they survive on the basis that many people around the world still believe there is a god, so whilst they can they will fight any technology that takes us closer to that " I will create life in the image of myself" Moment.
In the not to distant future, eartlings will clone human life and leave them there to work the cosmic colonies, from time to time we will fly in and check up on these clones who will in turn view us as gods. And one day we will leave that colony having exhausted our requirements and leave the clones to fend for themselves. The clones will probably wrtie books about us and will probably end up with a governing body who represents the gods who used to fly their chariots in the sky. At some point for reasons of power they will probably move toward a monothesitic approach and then they will spend their lives protecting that power.
Deep within their ranks they will do what they can to protect the lie until one day that society get to the point where they can also design life, and so it will begin again.
The church can do what they want, but they can never stop the move toward human clones, cyborgs and holograms. It will happen and then thankfully the god fantasy will be done with.
85

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 19/07/2008 10:08:33
#84
I partly share your views that EVERYONE residing in a "genuine democracy" should by RIGHT - enjoy the freedom to express and support whatever they think is right and proper for them.
They also should have the basic human rights to also decide what are the appropriate moral standards they and their families - if any - should abide by.
In my humble opinion, the moralist in question - should keep his preaching to his church and leave politics for his flock to decide what is going to be good or bad for them.
Religion has been the most ancient off all methods of control to be used the by the Establishment to strike fear and terror into the masses. HELL for you; HEAVEN and PARADISE for the exploiters!
It certainly should be TOTALLy banned from all state educational properties and if parents wish their children to have a religious education they shoud take them to their appropriate church.
After all said and done; you wouldn't go to purchase a joint of beef to a Chemist or an Ironmongery shop!
Or Would you?
86

ThomasP,

19/07/2008 10:09:20
91 Media 1,cape town

Idiot.

87

AM2,

Scotland,UK 19/07/2008 10:19:10
#86 Pink Sombrero

Labour's £5000 estimate was based on two unlikely assumptions:

1. independence (as indicated by the slogan "Break up Britain, end up Broke)
2. that the SNP would keep their election pledges.

As far as I can see, there is no such context on the SNP's leaflet.
88

AM2,

Scotland,UK 19/07/2008 10:21:08
More SNP election leaflet problems. From Tom Harris' blog:

"Kenny MacAskill really ought to know better. His party has had to issue a humiliating apology after putting two Central Scotland Police officers on one of their leaflets in the Glasgow East campaign. Electoral rules explicitly forbid the use of officers on party election literature if they can be identified."

http://tomcharris.wordpress.com/2008/07/19/against-the-law-and-out-of-order/
89

Pink Sombrero,

19/07/2008 10:25:13
94. AM2

there was no such context in Labour's party politica broadcast - it stated "a vote for the SNP will mean a £5000 tax bill".

95. AM2

at least the people pictured are actually policemen, and they were happy to be pictured with Mr MacAskill at the time the picture was taken, however clearly the picture should not have been re-used without permission. This does compares with Labour's 93 year old war veteran who was actually a 67 year old Labour activist.
90

ThomasP,

19/07/2008 10:26:00
#94

If Labour are allowed to assume Independence would cost each family £5000 then the SNP are able to assume that each family in Glasgow East could receive roughly £50 from the oil windfall.

"2. that the SNP would keep their election pledges."

Quite difficult since 500 million was spent on the Trams that the SNP were against.
91

Pink Sombrero,

19/07/2008 10:29:29
Good to see Gordon Brown can make it to a 10 course dinner in Japan, and now to Baghdad East, but won't be bothering to visit to Glasgow east.
92

Nikostratos,

19/07/2008 10:36:19
#90 pinky Ooer!(You wanna come down the gym and see who is old)

£48 extra
per household
isnt it time you got your share of Scotland's windfall

SNP on your side

seems straightforward to me vote snp and get £48 anyway of to Rome be back 25th July when the result of the by election will be known.


And given Alex and Mr mason rhetoric i expect the snp to win...If they don't?

cheerybye for now
93

European Scot,

19/07/2008 10:36:35
95 AM2

You feel moved to make comment on Police officers being used in a pamphlet, but did you not feel the need to comment on the lying propaganda of Ms. Curran's photo opportunity with a' War veteran', who was barely a wee bairn at that time.
Doubtless that would have been interpreted as 'a mistake'.
94

brownlie,

19/07/2008 10:37:57
95 AM2

Who is Tom Harris? Is he a Labour MP for Glasgow Southside? Is that where Margaret Curran has lived for the past 19 years?
95

AM2,

Scotland,UK 19/07/2008 10:54:32
#96 Pink Sombrero

Think again.

Here's the PPB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhNAg9EYmcU
The phrase "break up of Britain" appears at 1:47. Note also "SNP's plans" at 0:17. Those clearly include independence.

And here's the billboard: http://tinyurl.com/2sohqe
96

AM2,

Scotland,UK 19/07/2008 10:56:52
#96 Pink Sombrero

Was the McGuinness/Hipson swap a breach of electoral rules?

Yes or no will suffice.
97

AM2,

Scotland,UK 19/07/2008 10:57:41
#100 European Scot

If it was "lying propaganda" what was to be gained?
98

Media 1,

cape town 19/07/2008 10:58:57
Thomas P

If I am an idiot then you are suggesting that the following is impossible.

Thomas P is saying that;

1. Travelling at the speed of light will NEVER happen.
2. The cloning of human beings is impossible
3. Earthlings will NEVER find other planets AND if they did would never be able to clone human life.

Thomas, I accept that your mind is not as free as mine. I accept that I have had better opportunities in life, but that does not excuse your ignorance.

Ask yourself some questions.

1. Is it possible that humans may be able to clone human life?
2. Is it possible that we may travel at the speed of light?
3. Is it possible we may find an uninhabited planet out there somewhere?
4. When we find that planet, is it possible we may clone human life in the image of ourselves?

Dont be afraid, your mind is yours to use as you wish, thus anyone who tells you it should have boundaries is afraid that you may encounter the truth.
Live your life, your not dead yet!
99

AM2,

Scotland,UK 19/07/2008 10:59:12
#97 ThomasP

The SNP executive’s total liability for the Edinburgh tram system is £490m. Although somewhat front-loaded, that’s an average of £123m/year from 2007-11.

The additional cash-generating efficiencies which John Swinney announced in his November budget should generate £400m over the next three years. That’s an average of £133m/year – more than enough to cover the unplanned £123m/year expense and obviate the need to break any manifesto pledges.

Yet still the SNP cyber-activists cite the tram system to try and excuse all the broken pledges. They must think the Scottish public are complete idiots.
100

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 19/07/2008 10:59:15
#26 & 94 AM2

Wait till you see the new Leaflet. "Labour Scrapping Incapacity Benefit and Forcing All into Unpaid Work."

That might shake a few of the complacent sheep.
101

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 19/07/2008 10:59:25
#26 & 94 AM2

Wait till you see the new Leaflet. "Labour Scrapping Incapacity Benefit and Forcing All into Unpaid Work."

That might shake a few of the complacent sheep.
102

AM2,

Scotland,UK 19/07/2008 11:00:25
#108 KampungHighlander

I wouldn't put it past them.
103

AM2,

Scotland,UK 19/07/2008 11:02:33
#82 Ned

Thank you for that. It would of course be a wasted vote in that constituency, but I have been most impressed by the Lib Dem candidate.