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Thursday, 26th November 2009

SNP clashes with PM over St Andrew's Day

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Published Date: 18 November 2007
A GROWING campaign for a Remembrance Day bank holiday has put the SNP on another collision course with Gordon Brown.
The idea clashes with the Scottish Government's desire to turn St Andrew's Day into an official day off, as it is unlikely that two extra bank holidays would be created in November.

Brown has called for a national day equivalent to the US's July
4 or Bastille Day in France, and has suggested the Monday after Remembrance Sunday as a day to celebrate Britishness.

His proposal appears to have huge popular support - by last night a petition on the Number 10 website calling for a national Remembrance holiday had attracted more than 47,000 supporters and was the third most popular.

However, the SNP Government in Holyrood is keen to establish St Andrew's Day, November 30, as a public holiday. This year, for the first time, workers can swap it with an existing public holiday in order to take the day off, at the discretion of their employer.

A new UK public holiday would normally be created through Royal Proclamation or statute at Westminster, but the Scottish Government can, as it did with its St Andrew's Day Bill, offer employers the chance to substitute a local holiday at another time of year for a day off on the Scottish saint's day.

Jim Panton, chief executive of Poppy Scotland, said he would welcome a national Remembrance Day holiday and suggested that people could be offered the choice of Remembrance or St Andrew's Day holidays.

Angus Robertson, the SNP's Westminster leader, said he did not think a Remembrance Day public holiday was needed and that veterans and serving personnel would be better recognised through other means, such as better care and rehabilitation services.

It was unfair to pit his support for St Andrew's Day as a public holiday against his opposition to a Remembrance Day, he said.



Page 1 of 1

 
1

I'm no really here,

18/11/2007 01:08:51

So what do Scots want to do? Celebrate their "Scottishness", or their Britishness?

2

Brian S,

LONDON 18/11/2007 01:22:00

Scottishness please!

I for one will be throwing my very first St Andrew's Day party this year. My English friends are looking forward to it. We Scots know how to throw a good party.

3

,

18/11/2007 01:54:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

Bad Yin,

Holding my breath because of the stench! 18/11/2007 01:55:53

I will remember on the 11th of November the waste of Brittish wars and lost family in those wars - but I won't be celebrating.

I will celebrate on St. Andrew's day and give thanks that I was born a Scot!

5

Wisnaeme,

18/11/2007 03:16:42

There is nothing respectful or of merit in "celebration" of loss, nor to add insult would a proposed day of 'Britishness' by cynical politicians absorbed in whatever they would consider plausible as an excuse for bonding with the great unwashed.

Are these Labour cretins and others who supported them in their recent foreign adventurism so stupid as to give us a special day to reflect on loss and the causes of it when we have been spectators to 'Britishness' draped coffins of our citizens returning home?

...and are we not aware enough of loss, caused primary by the very lies and self serving arrogance of these self same politicians without having a full day to reflect on their "mistakes" and the results of them?

The crass arrogance of it is stupendous in its insensitive cynicism.A new low has been reached by themselves that not even I would have thought possible of themselves.
.

6

Spotter,

18/11/2007 04:15:30

how useful is a day off in November?

7

Willie Macleod,

Wick 18/11/2007 04:56:41

Have a no nationality day forget British Scottish St andrew and all the rest Live think and celebrate our common humanity I prefer this to a no music day Music cuts through all the borders andwith the written word in poetry songs plays and dance. One day one people That man to man the world oe'r shall brithers be for a'that

8

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 18/11/2007 05:37:17

A day off would let you do some useful work if that's your inclination whereas most jobs are mainly to give people some social life and get out of the house.

As a planetary pagan poet, I don't neglect our christian heritage. The 30th is also a good day to consider the life and work of Andre Ampere and future of Science since Einstein put his relativity patch on Physics. Confused? Are you a wave or particle and how does this matter?

My general theory of everything else considers Life and I hope offers new insights and possibilites for thinking, fun, and frolics.

9

Bad Yin,

Aspiring to greatness! 18/11/2007 05:37:21

Willie Macleod,

aye - Wullie - but ma brither disnae run ma hoos.

10

Bad Yin,

Aspiring to greatness! 18/11/2007 05:42:04

Thank god for Yok Finney!

I was straying towards pedantry.

11

S'me,

18/11/2007 06:00:29

Oh lovely.. a day off in gloomy November... give it to us in the summer!

12

Gengis McCann,

18/11/2007 06:08:39

Well said Willie Macleod,a day off to "celebrate" centuries of being cannon foder,or a holiday to celebrate all that the Kirk has done for us ?.
How about a national holiday for Rabbie Burns or William Wallace.

13

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 18/11/2007 06:51:26

#6
Better than two in May.
Get some Christmas Shopping done (only joking)

14

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 18/11/2007 06:53:53

#11
Do you work for yourself, or does your employer pay for your public holidays?

15

Bad Yin,

Lookin Oot tae the great beyond! 18/11/2007 07:15:13

I propose that Scotland be named a holy place and only folks with open minds be allowed to live here!

Scots need time to evaluate the commitment of other communities to the naked truth of the cosmos.

No stonings here please we're presbyterian! We've moved on.

16

A Better Way,

18/11/2007 07:16:09

Burns was a fierce Nationalist so a Burns Day would be a great idea.

I am still obliged to the need to celebrate my Scottishness on at least one special day of the year. My great Grandfather was a crofter who remembered the tales he learned as a lad from his family, and decided to keep the practise alive. St Andrews day has always been day acknowledged in my parents house and their parents before that. So as a Scotsman who was raised to be aware of my country and the many Scots who suffered betrayal by the landed families, which one had to be to get a vote in the then Scottish Parliament.

I'll stick to my families ongoing tradition of teaching us about the shamefull betrayal of so many Scots and having the decency to continue remembering all the poor Scots who are still suffering as a result of this Union.

17

donald,

weegieland 18/11/2007 08:05:03

Prestwick Airport should be renamed Robert Burns and Glasgow Airport William Wallace Airports. At least these characters actually existed, unlike "Robin Hood" Airport.

18

John S,

18/11/2007 08:29:36

#17 donald - I second your proposal but I have no doubt the Scottish Labour Party would raise an objection.

19

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 18/11/2007 08:38:26

"Today, where the maranha dawned calm, we are clearly perceiving the characters who have excited the imagination of the Gaedels. Slowly, they are appearing ahead in our mind. There they go, orderly, Gaedel or Gaythelos Glas, holding the hand of his wife Scota, the beautiful daughter of the Pharaoh of Egypt, goes Breogan, the hero, with his sons Ith and Mil, goes the God Lugh with his spear, Dagda with his cauldron and Nuada with his sword. Also arriving are Macha, quicker than the wind, Cu Chulainn and the sons of Lir, the treacherous Tuatha De, with their evil druids. Later, the beautiful Inés, who reigned after her death, and king Sebastião; all we go on with waiting for his return. Don Quixote and Sancho Panza, Kenneth McAlpin with her wife, the beautiful pictish princess, William Wallace, and king Robert the Bruce with his axe, queen Mary, Bonnie Prince Charlie, Maria Pita, the pirate Morgan, the explorer Livingstone who returned to the sources of the Nile, 2000 years after Gaythelos, count Dracula, Holmes & Watson, El Marqués de Bradomín, A Garota de Ipanema, Mafalda & Manolito, the quiet man, and the long, long, way to the shrine of Saint James apostle, and his alter ego the heretic Priscillian; Nessie, Saint Andrew with his cross, John F. Kennedy. All of them observe us with the glance of meigo, of mìogh, of sly, among glad, mocking, malicious, or enchanted; dancing tirelessly the jig, a moinheira, the polca, the reel, accompanied by great, enormous, gaethas; enormous piob mór, enormous pipes, stamping even until falling laios, falling laigheil, falling K.O., to feel themselves a little bit leilans, a little more leigeil, a little more free, among glasses and glasses of uisce and steams of queimada."

20

Cadgers,

Perth 18/11/2007 08:56:21

#18 Thirded(can one thirded?) good idea Donald.

21

I'm no really here,

18/11/2007 09:14:13

#8 "Are you a wave or particle..." You're just a wee bundle of Energy - depends on how you look at it.

22

I'm no really here,

18/11/2007 09:24:13

Another grating Headline from this Labour Rag: "SNP clashed with PM" - yet it is the PM's proposal that is clashing with Sir Ek's plans - as per the second paragraph.

23

Masque,

18/11/2007 09:28:29

Ah'll celeinebriate being Scottish ower bein British any day o the week!! Next week if yese want! Or the week efter! Geis anurra drap o that wine, Big Yin, eh?

24

rik savage,

18/11/2007 09:34:29

Bad Yin & Masque could you please both go back to school, I’m sick and tired of trying to translate your rubbish! Write in English (or American English), we can then respond much faster!

25

I'm no really here,

18/11/2007 09:38:37

#23 Thinks he's speaking Scots.

26

Pilrig.,

Livingston 18/11/2007 09:41:17

Very useful better having a day off (or better still two ) than working those days (unless you're a boss that is).

27

george alexander,

north lanarkshire 18/11/2007 09:42:12

I have been pointing out for some time the habit of the Unionist media to employ Scottish opposition party slogans in articles and broadcast items.

They know what they are doing as do the trolls like AM2 who feed on the stuff.

We will never have balance within Scottish media whilst those who own/run it rely heavily on the current system for their privileges.

That is why I have proposed on these forums a boycott of all online newspapers on St Andrew's day. It would be good to see these articles bereft of comments.....just for a day of course.

28

Pilrig.,

Livingston 18/11/2007 09:42:19

23 - well he aint writing RP

29

Pilrig.,

Livingston 18/11/2007 09:46:09

What's with all the wimps the girning aboot having a deserved national holiday in November ? After all the Yanks have Thanksgiving Day on Nov 26 withoot such girning aboot the weather.

30

pone300,

18/11/2007 10:26:03

#27
george
I'll join you in your boycott, how any people have you got now?

31

Bridged,

and tunnelled 18/11/2007 10:28:32

IN all reality, how many people would vte for an extra holiday in November, rather than one in teh spring and summer?

But on the basis that we won't be offered that choice (being mere people, whether to the Govt in London or Edinburgh), I'd go for a November 11.

In fact I would propose it happen all across Europe on that day - as commemorating something the vast majority of the continent endured.

32

Guga II,

Rockall 18/11/2007 10:44:12

#22 You are dead right. It is blatantly obvious that Maggie Broon, complete with his union jack underpants, is deliberately trying to white-ant wee Eck.

We don't want a holiday to celebrate our "britishness" Maggie, as most of us do not consider ourselves to be that (other than the likes of Joe, who cannot even manage to catch the train). An ever increasing number of people in Scotland consider themselves to be Scottish first and last.

Broon is, of course, trying desperately to convince "middle Engerland" that he is "British" as he is scared they won't vote for a Scottish Prime Monster. Not that I blame them, I wouldn't vote for him either. But he is going to rue the day that he tries to force a foreign nationality, and a foreign holiday, upon the Scots. Come the next general election, he will also find that his elocution lessons to get rid of his Scottish accent won't help him retain his own seat.

33

Conway,

18/11/2007 11:27:28

This is a very underhand way of trying to sink Scotland and the SNP having a St Andrews P/H,and lo and behold its a New Labour Scotsman going native in Westminster,now that doesnt surpries me.
I agree we should show respect for our fallen soldiers however if Gordon Brown had any respect for our services he wouldnt have bankrolled Tony Blairs lies and sent them to Iraq.

34

Mercutio,

Falkirk 18/11/2007 11:36:55

To all you people who complain that this newspaper The Scotsman is pro-unionist you are probably correct. This will not change until it becomes clear that a very large percentage of Scots disagree with their stance, simple it is called economics.

35

Helen,

18/11/2007 11:42:37

It's bad enough that Scotland gets 10 bank holidays already...as a manager who has to sort out staffing rotas I would ask that if a bank holiday is granted for St. Andrew's Day then one of the others should be taken away...People spend little enough time at work already.

36

Guga II,

Rockall 18/11/2007 11:51:52

#39 Helen. Can I get a loan?

37

Derick fae Yell,

The Hoose 18/11/2007 12:01:01

desperate tactics from Broon.

Dontcha just LOVE the Private Eye Broons strip!!

38

Pilrig.,

Livingston 18/11/2007 12:21:42

39 -
Too many hols ?aye maybe for bank"workers" who get too many hols at it is, what aboot us poor saps who get get only a fraction of this.
As it is the UK gets the lowest amount of hols in western Europe. This won't change under "Robert Maxwell" Broon who wants the hoi polloi to work until their dotage.

39

wisdom,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 12:37:35

Andrew Robertson has hit the nail on the head......the living needy are the ones we should care about.The dead are beyond our help.Let's have a Bank Holiday to celebrate our own St.Andrew and if Brown or anyone else South of the Border doesn't like it.....TOUGH !

40

pone300,

18/11/2007 13:05:40

Where are the comments of concern from business about the impact on the economy, you know, the concern when we were going to get St. Andrew's Day as a holiday.

41

HMFC,

18/11/2007 13:35:17

Another waste of time.

Still No Policies (SNP)

Complete clowns....

42

,

18/11/2007 13:46:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1152854, Article id was mapped to record!
43

Hotel Yorba,

Glasgow 18/11/2007 15:19:54

No 39 - Start by getting rid of ERII.

44

truebubbler (Jamaican Scottish),

wish it was Scotland 18/11/2007 15:40:23

Hi there,
Just thought I'd join the debate after reading all your lovely scottish comments. Now, I was born on this island, way, way down the road from you guys but, and this is a big but, my father's great auntie is Scottish, a MacIntosh. I have always had Scotland in my heart and blood for that matter and you guys deserve a day off for every genius that has come out of your country, so being 30th of November, get the fire lit early.

45

Helen,

18/11/2007 15:53:03

Hotel Yorba....I wish!!!! As a card carrying member of Republic which campaigns to abolish the monarchy and the House of Lords, I'd love to see ER II as our last non-elected Head of State and some true democracy happening at last.

46

qche,

18/11/2007 16:19:31

Hey. It's the start of the Winter Festival. I have booked my flight. I'm gonna stay with my old Scots Mum.

I'll tell you a story seeing it's Sunday. You know, her whole family were forced to fight the war except of course my 6 great Aunts who were all spinsters as their men folk were all killed in the First WW.

As for this Remembrance Day, my Mum always watches it, , with a wee Edinburgh crystal glass of whisky on her lap, on TV and she always says the same words...

"It was all a very long time ago, why don't they forget it"

You know with all respect for the dead, it's a private thing, it shouldn't be politicised like Gordon Brown is trying to do.

Life is for living. So see you in the bar! The Tequila's are on me.

47

NorT,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 16:48:22

We have Rememberance Sunday - we don't need any other day particuarly a holiday. The British Legion hi-jacked the one minute's silence and now they want to hijack a holiday - not on.

48

Logon no.6 and counting.,

18/11/2007 16:48:25

Totally unbelievable pettyness from Labour.
The SNP had already suggested making St Andrews day a bank holiday and now Labour has come up with this scheme in order to cause a confrontation yet this Labour rag publishes the story in reverse.
If Labour were serious about rememberance day then they would remember and respect the fallen and stop supporting illegal and totally unnecessary wars.
It just goes way beyond hypocricy its actually disgusting. And this rag has no right to try and pass itself of as a newspaper.

49

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 18/11/2007 17:29:14

#30........ the answer to your question is, because they are BRITISH SUBJECTS. End of story!

50

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/11/2007 17:59:41

Britain came into effect on the 1st of May 1707.

Can't think why Mr Brown would be able to confuse that with November for a day of Britisherness.

51

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/11/2007 18:06:45

Perhaps it's because he would have to sing to the union flag and the red flag at the same time.

52

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/11/2007 18:24:40

Hello, hello, how do you do?
We're the new red white and blue.

M'aider, please

53

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 18/11/2007 20:02:22

#49 & #51

She's actually ER1. Do get your facts right before campaigning.

54

,

18/11/2007 22:28:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
55

,

19/11/2007 00:34:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
56

Anonym,

somewhere 19/11/2007 03:37:06

I agree with # 62

57

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 19/11/2007 07:05:41

-- St Andrew is a Christian, and Christianity is an alien religion in Alba. I want an Alba day.

Andrew was a fisherman too. This isn't alien to some of us. He had a boat which had to be built - ie engineered - and sailed. This we call a way of LIFE.

Men need a few basic precepts, not too many because that'll get us confused, or we'll merely exist like degenerate dogs - as may be evident.

Christianity - as you know it - could be for some. I see the first churches as self relient of anarchic discipline. This worried the powerfull so it was made a State Religion.

Money is an alien religion. I know about its origins, history and current status: "You can make money or sense."

A national day - an non-national day - an international holiday? You choose. None of these concepts needs to be compulsory.

Forward from Scotland's past! Alba Confracta!

58

Ken Mac,

Glasgow 19/11/2007 07:53:26

Brown's attempts to prove his Britishness to the English is getting more desperate. Remeberance should be a sober occassion when we remember the sacrifices of previous conflicts not a bloody holiday.

This stinks of politicking and trying to take the wind out of Ecks sails. Let's have a St Andrews day holiday and leave the Rememberance day events alone.

59

scottishcoffindodgerno1,

Edinburgh we are in it to win it 19/11/2007 09:31:38

Make it Burns day as it is my daughters birthday.She would like that.

60

cruiseship,

med 20/11/2007 22:16:08

I'm all for celebrating the war efforts and what it meant to our generation, this is a brilliant idea and much better than just wearing a poppy. Afterall, it was for freedom, and lets face it we'd be run by the germans by now. So lets be proud of ourselves, and have no chips on our shoulders?

61

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 22/11/2007 16:06:41

An interesting Brown stunt, no doubt at latest partially designed to block the St Andrews Day holiday.

But it is likely to backfire on two counts. The vast majority of us are Scottish first and British second (if at all) and secondly there is plenty of scope for opposition politicians to embarrass Brown by telling him that living services personnel would be better served with decent housing and conditions before we do any more for their dead colleagues than we are already doing.

62

Strathturret,

Montrose 22/11/2007 22:37:10

Brown's toast.

I personally stopped buying a poppy years ago- it only encourages the warmongers.

I think we should stop the whole Remembrance nonsense; because we're so insincere. We said in 1919 never again and we fought again and again and now we have nonsense like Iraq, Afganistan and Iran?

I had three grandparents in WW1 and Father in WW2. The first war was a complete waste of men for no cause reason or benefit. We started the second show to protect Poland's independence and ended handing it over to Stalin!

As Churchill said, Jaw, jaw is better than war, war.

63

Mr Lahey,

25/11/2007 10:41:35

Bad Yin. What has St Andrew got to do with being a
Scot ?
Please explain how a symbol of the Catholic Church is relevant to this country's Muslim community, Protestant community, Hindu community.. etc
What is needed is an inclusive representation of Scotland today not flag-waving jingoistic patriotism of the whit Catholic community.
I suggest Burns day instead as he is recognised globally for his contribution to language and literature and is a much better symbol for Scotland and denominational free.
Also dear community did you know there was no such thing as Britishness before the 1930's. England was synonymous with the UK ergo Scotland and Wales were part of England in the lexicon of the day.


 

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