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Fury at BBC's English history of Scotland



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Published Date:
11 March 2008
IT WAS hailed by BBC Scotland as one of its most ambitious projects ever. But already the ten-part series A History of Scotland has run into controversy, with a second senior Scottish historian publicly attacking the programme.
Professor Allan Macinnes told The Scotsman that he had resigned from the series' advisory board after its first meeting in November.

"I thought the whole production was dreadful," he said.

"The first provisional script I got was so Anglo-centric I couldn't believe it," Prof Macinnes said. "It was written on the basis as if Scotland was a divided country until the Union (with England] came along and civilised it. I felt it was just nonsense."

A History of Scotland's advisory board, which includes leading historians, agencies such as Historic Scotland and a history teachers' representative, meets for a second time this week.

But last week Professor Tom Devine, perhaps Scotland's best-known historian, revealed he had turned down the offer of a place on the board. While saying he "warmly welcomed" the show, he complained of an "old-fashioned" approach to Scottish history and the choice of archeologist Neil Oliver as presenter.

The programme is due on screen next November, with the first five parts ending with the Act of Union in 1707. It is the keystone of a "multi-platform" project from BBC Scotland, called Scotland's History. It includes linked live concerts from historic locations, and radio and website programming aimed at "bringing the country's history to life".

But the first script, Prof Macinnes said, was "very traditionalist", full of kings and queens. "Everything was written from the point of view of England and Scotland, as if Scotland didn't have any relations with any other country."

Mr Macinnes is a professor of early modern history at Strathclyde University, a published author and expert on the period up to and including the Union of the Crowns. He said another reason he resigned was the programme makers expected his time for free. "They seem to regard working for the BBC as an unpaid honour."

He conceded that the programme's second script might have changed,

but complained of an "awful phrase": "Scotland was a divided nation". He said: "At the time, England was divided, France was divided, Germany didn't even exist. I would like to see it put Scotland in its wider European context. You don't need to look at England all the time."

BBC Scotland said: "The whole point of the advisory group is to look at the bigger picture, and we have been very much working with them and taking on board their suggestions.

"No scripts as such have been issued. Early drafts are always open to discussion and differing interpretations."

Another top Scottish historian, Jenny Wormald, remains on the panel. She said: "I had my own worries: for example, I didn't want too much made of Robert the Bruce, because I wanted Scottish history to be made of more than our great heroes. I didn't win on that one."

EXPERT WITH AN INDIVIDUAL VIEW OF NATION'S PAST

PROFESSOR Allan Macinnes worked at the universities of Glasgow and Aberdeen before his appointment as professor of early modern history at Strathclyde University.

He has written on the history of the Highlands, including Scottish Jacobitism and the Highland clans. His book, Union and Empire: the Making of the United Kingdom in 1707, was published last year by Cambridge University Press, which called it a "major new interpretation" of the Act of Union in a "broad European and colonial context". Professor Macinnes was among a group of historians who lobbied the Scottish Parliament to commemorate officially the 300th anniversary of the Act of Union last January. He argues that Scottish politicians who negotiated the Treaty of Union were not "a parcel of rogues bought for English gold", but politically inept negotiators.

The full article contains 644 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 10 March 2008 9:54 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: The BBC
 
1

britsout,

camelon 11/03/2008 00:25:34
why on earth should we even entertain the thought of scotlands history being strained through such a manky clout as the b b c ?. they hate the idea of scotlands autonomy. watch the disgraceful bias now totally undisguised on the politics show or newsnight and then ask your selves what the brief of the commisioning editors might be . jenny wormold should think again
2

Socrates2,

11/03/2008 00:41:53
really what do you expect from the bbc
they should try making a scottih history prog without much ref to england at least keep england in perspective with Man. Norway and Ireland

don't hold ur breath -- license money to burn
3

ChinaBear,

Hong Kong 11/03/2008 00:46:50
What a nonsense this is. Shame on you Scotsman for fanning nationalistic fires to get interest in a non event.
It's just a story about two academics, the 1st of which declined to participate in a BBC programme from the start, but warmly welcomed the show!

The one remaining expert complains about a script which the BBC say's doesn't exist yet. He then says that a programme about Scotland must tell the viewers that England and France were divided nations as well, or it becomes an anti Scotland conspiricy sponsored by the English!

Then we hear the REAL reason he's so hacked off, it's because he's not getting paid and he doesn't like the presenter!!

Get a life Scotsman but more so, get a life Macinnes, you sound like a bitter and sad man to me.
4

Keren, It's time,

11/03/2008 00:52:55
5 Above is exactly the sort of Scottish Cringe we need to get rid of.
5

alexandermc,

san francisco 11/03/2008 00:53:55
Please lets us encourage any source of historical education, people can surely make their minds up regards accuracy. Our kids have no idea about their history. They are so quick to display hatred but most have no historical perspective. Information is power.
6

Jwil,

11/03/2008 00:55:47
Whatever happens please make it accurate. We have enough anti-Scottish bias to last ten lifetimes.
7

Rob - Honest Toun,

11/03/2008 00:56:19
#1
Dr Dauvit Horsbroch warks wi the Scots Language Centre in Perth.

slc.office@scotslanguage.com

8

CRAGman,

11/03/2008 01:04:25
Why not get Niall Ferguson to make a programme about Scotland? He's in the US - so it'll make for an interesting view by a Scotsman abroad.
9

Black & White Triumph,

Greenhill road.....soon 11/03/2008 01:09:59
Well I for one am for an independant Scotland with its own independant media and airline etc etc. When that aim is achieved we can make our on programmes to our hearts content, redress millienia of mis representation and help build our self confindence as a nation.
We can stand up for ourselves, we can provide a country fit for all our children and we can do it as well if not better than most others in the world. We can do it because we are Scottish.
A wee distorted tv programme does not worry me one bit.
10

britsout,

camelon 11/03/2008 01:10:43
our kid are quick to display hate ? you post from direct experience of scots children ? musta misstit .here, pass the history test . was william wallace anti english ?
11

Navvy,

11/03/2008 01:16:56
#7 just so, let us see the programmes first this article is just a trailer for the series. It is generally acknowledged that history is poorly taught in schools so every little bit helps.

#11 stay clear of national airlines most of which are a great burden on their taxpayers.
Swiss -??
BA happily was sold
KLM has "merged" with Air France which the French government cheated the EU for years by paying illegal subsidies
Alitalia?
etc
12

Guga II,

Rockall 11/03/2008 01:31:49
We can't expect the EBC to make a programme on Scottish history without showing up their typical English "British Raj" bias. They, like their masters in Westminster, still treat Scotland as a colony, and it wouldn't do to show our colonial masters in a bad light.

As for #13's comment "that history is poorly taught in schools so every little bit helps.", this is all very well, but it might be better to teach the truth rather than the usual biased English history that is taught.
13

Scullion,

Canada 11/03/2008 01:43:24
#14Never forget that Scots were exceptionally willing and able partners in the British Empire. This country that I've lived in for decades was a Scottish colony for all intents and purposes and its first prime minister, born you know where, was famous for his phrase, "British I was born and British I shall die."Revisionism is expected but does no one any good.When I lived in Glasgow during the 60's, England was a foreign land which had absolutely no bearing on my view of the world. I always thought of them as the weaker partner. It wasn't true historically but for me to think that as a boy says much about the spirit of Scotland at that time. Besides, everyone must dispute another's version of history-that's the fun of it.
14

Guga II,

Rockall 11/03/2008 01:51:52
#15 It still is a foreign land, and always will be.
15

,

11/03/2008 01:56:05
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16

,

11/03/2008 02:11:06
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17

CROSSED GEORGE,

England and Proud 11/03/2008 02:13:16
17 MacAlba.

What a load of anti English rubbish, get a grip of yourself, as for independence, fine then we wouldn't have to listen to tripe like yours
18

Encephalon,

11/03/2008 02:24:42
For those of us overseas -the extensive coverage (NOT) of the weekend rugby result on the EBC news told you all you wanted to know about that particular organisation!

History is a very dangerous subject as it is always open to various interpretations depending on people's respective prejudices. However the political influences presently at play trying to counter Scottish nationalism and present Scotland as a mere province of the Disunited Kingdom ie England must be strongly resisted.

We played a significant part in Empire building - something we should be proud of-but those days are long gone and we need to forge our own future.
19

,

11/03/2008 02:26:23
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20

,

11/03/2008 02:29:31
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21

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA....captured from Mexico 1845 11/03/2008 02:35:18
Fury at BBC's English history of Scotland
--------------------------------------------

This headline is a joke.

Why don't U dudes produce ur own TV program on Scottish History.

Stop Ur whining and get on with it dudes.

If U cannot even do that. how in the hell will U manage, if U ever become an Independent State.

Squawking about bad bad England and the bad bad BBC !!! how juvenile is that dudes.

GC
22

CROSSED GEORGE,

Freedom for England 11/03/2008 02:36:10
21

Then take your prime minister back, both of them. I moved to your country in a mad moment and thank god have now moved back home, you are the most self obsessed, bigoted, ungrateful and xenophobic race on earth.

Come back up to Scotland, you must be joking. McAlba, you are RACIST, nothing less and its people like you that make your "country" such an unpleasant place

20
As for you, England must be resisted?, get a grip on reality,
23

CROSSED GEORGE,

11/03/2008 02:38:43
24

True, the headline is a joke, and this newspaper inflames the rubbish these people spout, see the reaction I get when I defend my constantly criticised country. Scottish like to dish it out, but hate it when they get it back
24

CROSSED GEORGE,

11/03/2008 02:39:23
23

We have lakes here, like the rest of the English speaking world
25

CROSSED GEORGE,

11/03/2008 02:42:42
22

At least i'm not what you are
26

CROSSED GEORGE,

FREEDOM FOR ENGLAND 11/03/2008 02:45:21
Time to leave you all to your name calling, bickering and enviousness of everyone else, I'm English so I need to go to bed to get up in the morning to earn money to pay taxes to pay for a new hospital in Glasgow
27

,

11/03/2008 02:47:23
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28

CROSSED GEORGE,

11/03/2008 02:51:05
30

well the feelings growing more mutual here, we are fed up being dictated to, subsidising you and listening to all the rubbish you people come out with about being so hard done to, you Scottish are not superior even though you think you are.

By the way, you can have the 800,000 thousand Scots who have joined the English Gravy train back.

Now I am going to bed to pay for another hospital in Scotland
29

Encephalon,

11/03/2008 02:53:58
#29-translated-"mummy has said its time for bed as I have school tomorrow".

Try and pay attention to your teacher-you may actually learn something!
30

CROSSED GEORGE,

11/03/2008 02:59:12
32 earlier on "We played a significant part in Empire building - something we should be proud of-but those days are long gone and we need to forge our own future"

Not out of my wallet you won't be, and as for learning, at least we were not brought up in a melting pot of racism, and secterianism like you are

30 "If you really don't want to come to Scotland, then you must be the only Englander who doesn't!"

Don't kid yourself, plenty of us are turning our backs on Scotland for holidays, and we all know where that will hit you, in the wallet, the hardest place to hit a Scotsman


31

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 11/03/2008 03:03:53
Hmm, never takes long for a rebuke of any Pro-Scottish sentiment on the Scotsman blogs.

Crossed George what utter dribble you come out with.

Your description of the Scots as "PAROCHIAL, XENAPHOBIC, RACIST, BIGOTED AND SELF OBSESSED RACE" is ridiculous. It is commonly understood outside of England that these are charectaristics associated with the English, throwing mud that is slung at you is a pi$$ poor strategy for winning an arguement.

You claim that England subsidises Scotland. This claim has been nonsensed, not by the SNP of her followers or some other 'sweaty' but by Oxford University.

If you are going to come onto the boards on a Scottish newspaper an understanding of the facts is required to not make yourself look like a complete Essex boy which you just have.

Sleep tight
32

CROSSED GEORGE,

11/03/2008 03:05:57
34
Rather Essex boy than East Lothian boy, at least I can sleep tight because I'm not disturbed by having a British passport.
33

,

11/03/2008 03:06:03
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34

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 11/03/2008 03:06:56
#35

er, whatever
35

CROSSED GEORGE,

11/03/2008 03:08:39
36- no she escaped wonderful Scotland too.

Don't you think you could have moved any further away from the place you preach about, obviously not that proud to be Scottish

36

CROSSED GEORGE,

11/03/2008 03:09:30
37

sorry confusing you, yes people in Scotland also have British passports, but for the rest of us in Britain it isn't a problem
37

CROSSED GEORGE,

11/03/2008 03:12:22
Gone all quiet DOOGIE?

Or maybe Australian taxes don't fund Scotland like ours do in England
38

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 11/03/2008 03:18:15
Keep it coming George - you are an amazingly talented man, spouting jibberish whilst sleeping.

Thank god us Scots have multi-tasking experts like you picking up all of our bills.
39

TommyKaye,

UK 11/03/2008 03:24:04
CROSSED GEORGE:

To quote you sir; "PAROCHIAL, XENAPHOBIC, RACIST, BIGOTED AND SELF OBSESSED RACE"

To whom are you referring sir?

Would Stephen Lawrence's name ring any bells with you?

To remind you he was a young innocent Black kid stabbed to death by five racist thugs in South London.

So far the record shows no Scottish involvement the perpatrators are apparently still at large and also apparently English.

Kind of blows a hole in your theory sir.

Also for the record George was not English but hailed from the area of the Middle East known as The Levant.

Oh dear are you getting more cross George?

40

,

11/03/2008 03:25:29
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41

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 11/03/2008 03:33:24
MacAlba #43

yeah, i can think of a few other words and phrases to describe George...most of them starting with the words 'utter' and 'complete'
42

,

11/03/2008 03:43:35
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43

,

11/03/2008 03:46:55
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44

Wisnaeme,

wisnae there 11/03/2008 03:54:22

Awa an chase yer dragon, George.

Gie's peace.
.
45

,

11/03/2008 03:57:31
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46

Black & White Triumph,

Greenhill Road.......soon 11/03/2008 05:16:16
hoad on,

When we do get independence and when we make a country to be proud of by our own efforts, then comments from the above CG person will be irrelevant.

However, we do need to take the first step and get our independence back. It is not something that someone else can give us, its ours, we can have it whenever we want.

But we have to want it and we have to do it.

We, us nobody else
47

alexandermc,

san francisco 11/03/2008 05:17:04
Several hours ago I made a comment regards the need for education and anything would be better than nothing. I have watched the comments on this forum after making my comment about hatred and anger. I have seen little about history but just personal attacks on individuals. We need to rise above this. We are a great nation, we are not petty, we are magnificent, those who made us famous were not attacking others but reading, writing and bettering themselves. The article was about history.
48

Richardinho,

11/03/2008 06:02:12
Well, who says history is all in the past!
49

W Smith,

Middle East 11/03/2008 06:23:07
If the Scots aren't racists then why did Salmond and MacAskill rush down the nearest mosque and 'apologise' in advance for any backlash after the incident at Glasgow Airport?

Or is it only the unionists Scots who 'do' racism?

The bottom line is that the English have given we Scots the choice to stay in the union or leave it.

Tantrums by SNP voters don't change this fact and I don't remember the 'despotic' Queen trying to stop Scots from voting.

It wasn't "the English" that tried to kill hundreds of Scots at Glasgow Aiport - unless the SNP's Osama Saeed has 'evidence' that says otherwise?




50

Beth Boyle,

NY 11/03/2008 06:30:36
Nationalism is a double edged sword like the claymore!
51

Media 1,

cape town 11/03/2008 06:33:09
Scotland is fortunate to have a slightly higher number of pro union supporters, than it does those against the union...
Thankfully, because of that split, we are still part of the union!
But let us not forget that we are part of the union because we want to be, we are not forced to be part of it.
My biggest gripe with Salmond, is that he attempts to use the anti English sentiment in Scotland to push through his indpendence issue. What he should be doing is pushing for a referendum on independence!
Scotland has a great history, and we probably were a little divided and perhaps primitive by comparison to the English prior to the act of the union! So what, we made up for it didnt we?
52

Pilrig.,

Livingston 11/03/2008 06:34:42
10 - Niall Ferguson ? he'd be more suited to a telling history of the British Empire, why not bring in Michael Fry too ? he can add his tendentious "history" of the Highland Clearances.
53

Pilrig.,

Livingston 11/03/2008 06:40:00
52 eh ?

54 - Scotland has a great history ? well the BBC, the Scottish Labour Party and the teaching fraternity up here would beg to differ, judging by their actions.
54

Media 1,

Cape Town 11/03/2008 06:51:27
The Scottish Crown jewels come from corrupt men who sold their own people down the river...We should melt them down and be done with them!!!
The past is over and that is where it must remain!
Scotland is a proud member of the union and we should do what we can to preserve our glorious position within it.
55

Wisnaeme,

11/03/2008 06:52:38

W Smith wrote; "It wasn't the English that tried to kill hundreds of Scots at Glasgow Airport."

Partly true but as to cause and effect, let me see. Bliar an ersatz whatever, Brown an ersatz little Britisher, various little Britisher MP's from the peripheral regions, the majority being from the centre of the universe apparently. Aye there's always a price to pay for warmongering; trouble is it is usually a majority of innocents that pay it. As I said, They say and ordinary folk pay.
.
56

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 11/03/2008 07:02:18
Our history should be written by an objective and well-informed outsider(s). It'c clear from the above that we can't see the truth for the prejudices in the way.
57

Alastair Murray,

east grinstead 11/03/2008 07:10:29
Why are you surprised. Did you view the BBC commentary of the Calcutta Cup Rugby match on Saturday, dreadful drivel. The people the BBC employs do not have the knowledge or the inclination to deliver facts any longer.
58

eric,

11/03/2008 07:18:13
There are more people in Scotland against union.In victorian era it was other way around.Unionism is already a quaint thing of the past like flares The English have always made things up to suit themselves anyway.I find it amusing more than anything.
59

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 11/03/2008 07:18:29
Dearie me, Media 1 your at it again!

Media 1 said:-

"My biggest gripe with Salmond, is that he attempts to use the anti English sentiment in Scotland to push through his indpendence issue" - please supply evidence of this racist allegation, perhaps a quote or a link.

"What he should be doing is pushing for a referendum on independence" - hasn't he been doing exactly that?

"The Scottish Crown jewels come from corrupt men who sold their own people down the river" - are you sure you are reading from the right script here Media 1?

"...we should do what we can to preserve our glorious position within it" - as I said, dearie me.

You really are a piece of work my friend.
60

C U Jimmy,

Ayrshire 11/03/2008 07:19:24
If you are a successful Scot, you are British!, If you are a successful Englishman you are English, What else can you expect from the EBC (aka BBC).
61

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 11/03/2008 07:25:30
Double 'dearie me' from W Smith:-

"The bottom line is that the English have given we Scots the choice to stay in the union or leave it"

Who is disputing that Scots could leave the union at anytime - nobody is, however your subservience has been noted by your above statement 'the English have GIVEN'

"Or is it only the unionists Scots who 'do' racism? - well with comments like yours below 'W' it would seem that you ,as a unionist, have no hesitation in racially slurring people.

"It wasn't "the English" that tried to kill hundreds of Scots at Glasgow Aiport - unless the SNP's Osama Saeed has 'evidence' that says otherwise?"

W Smith and Media 1 - the same person? or sitting beside each other in black comms?

62

Conan the Librarian™,

11/03/2008 07:45:54
31
You are going to bed to pay for another hospital in Glasgow?
You must charge your clients a fortune!
63

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 11/03/2008 07:48:35
Jings this is going to be a fun thread.

Curious George, I tip my hat to you Sir, seldom has such splendid trolling been seen on these hallowed boards. Sleep well in the knowledge that we parsimonious Scots are lighting Monte Cristo's, hand rolled between the virgin thighs of Cuban girlies, with your hard earned fresh English twenty pound notes. Thanks for the subsidies, the subsidies of you, and all the things you do.

Jenny Wormald sounds as if she's about to jump ship too. As for Neil Oliver and his ever so rounded vowels, get a grip.



64

eric,

11/03/2008 07:48:56
31,By the way! is a very Scottish term !
65

Donart/NZ,

NZ 11/03/2008 07:58:53
"Crossed George" AKA "A wee German Geordie"
A very sad man? - can ye no spell "English?"

Is XENAPHOBIC the same as Xenophobic?

Our royalty is Greek/German - Jimmy the 1st/6th wisny.

Am jist donart.
66

Donart/NZ,

Enzed 11/03/2008 08:00:39
On reflection - thank god for Mel Gibson.
67

david team,

edinburgh 11/03/2008 08:01:01
a country to be proud of ?

not at this time bigotry violence drugs

not until its people get their act together
68

Gdgy,

11/03/2008 08:02:31
What a lot of tosh - the SNPites are fanning up their anti-Englsih rants (not much fanning needed there)and those with a anti-BBC slant have sharpened their already sharp knives

But no one knows what the series will be like! One historian resigned from the advisory board but he didn't like a phrase that may be used...
69

Unimpressed one,

11/03/2008 08:07:09
#5, chinabear, you should understand that this issue goes to the very core of the Scots' constitution. We love to pick a fight with anyone, but preferably the English. Religion, football, politics and drink just about sums up our nation, and from these obsessions flow our present woes.
70

Conan the Librarian™,

11/03/2008 08:08:00
66
Oscar,am intrigued by the title "Lords and Men in Scotland: Bonds of Manrent."by Jenny Wormald.

Do you think crosslegged George would be interested?
71

McStumpy,

Edinburgh 11/03/2008 08:09:24
#5 nailed this at the start - the story here revolves around two historians taking the huff because their noses were put out of joint.

Editor - is that the sound of fingernails on barrel bottom I hear??
72

Donart/NZ,

NZ 11/03/2008 08:17:11
A number of years ago (just over 50) and as a new New Zealander frae Auld Reekie I was told by a wise old man that there are two types o' people in the warld - Scotsmen and them that wad like tae be! I don't think he was biased.

His name was Jock Williamson!!
73

Gusto,

11/03/2008 08:20:59
60. Alastair.
Yes, toe-curling gibberish from TWO English accents - I'm guessing one was Welsh - if not - really stupid.
And of course Scotland won because England were absolutely dreadfull. Even Gary Linneker does a better job of covering his anti-scottishness than these shell-shocked so-called commentators.
Scottish history? - leave that to the English - they wrote it. We just have to write our own someday.
74

david team,

11/03/2008 08:21:53
can someone tell me pls if scotland was independent would the browns and the darlings and the rest have to find english constituencies ? and do they think they would be successful ?
75

Conan the Librarian™,

11/03/2008 08:23:25
76
Morning Spook.Leith today.Did my stint last night...
76

Donart/NZ,

NZ 11/03/2008 08:27:27
#78 Davie

I dinny ken aboot the Browns and Darlings but the "Broons" and "Oor Wullie" wid have nae bother finding a constituency in Alba.

#76 frae Leith - hope you have a guid day at Uni - I'm awa tae ma bed and will have a read of this 'amusing' thread in the morning.

Here's tae us etc. etc......
77

Jay Kay,

11/03/2008 08:28:06
Thank god we don't have a Tv we wont have to put up with this vile cr*p and we don't have to shell out to the EBC to have it made, more propeganda to brainwash the public into thinking the Union was the greatest thing to ever happen to our wee country, if we never had this bl**dy union and had been an independant country we would be one of the ritchest nations in the world so many natural reasources that we could have sold and made our people billionairs every one of them but no wait I forgot the Government have pulled the wool down over our eyes and sold us the notion that its Britains OIL and GAS meanwhile we have to fight for scraps from Westmonsters table, sit up and beg for your own money boys.

Now don't get me wrong I sympathise greatly with the people of England I have a lot of English friends but its the rotten to the core government I have a major issue with, the fat cat corruption and sleeze has destroyed any notion that the government are working for one reason only to prop up their own bank accounts and to support the super elite, the rest of the great unwashed can go to hell as far as their concerned.

I vote for rounding them all up and sending them on the first banana boat over to europe where they can all stay and play at being important, meanwhile we set up a whole new government and start to make the system work for the people
78

Mcsnagpile,

11/03/2008 08:29:39
A programme on the Act of Union with the Irish might be a good follow up.
79

Donart/NZ,

Enzed 11/03/2008 08:31:23
Jimmy Logan Baird has a lot to answer for!
80

Donart/NZ,

Enzed 11/03/2008 08:33:26
Dragonhead

Neither although I live near Dunedin - myself went to Preston Lodge in neolithic 1953!
81

Donart/NZ,

NZ 11/03/2008 08:36:13
Dragonhead

By the way is this what they call a chat room? My real name is Alastair, darling. I'm 23 female and friendly.!!
82

HughB,

Edinburgh 11/03/2008 08:40:51
I remember a terrible programme presented by Tony Robinson about William Wallace. It was so anglo-centric in it's view, and called William Wallace an outlaw and a traitor.

It was edward I who was the outlaw king of england because of all the invasions and war crimes commited against civilian men, women and children, especially at Berwick, where he killed the entire population.

Who knows what true history is, and nobody can claim to have the master knowledge of everything that happened hundreds of years ago, and you can't trust one countries account of another countries history, because it will always be biased in terms of how it affected them, or how it went against what they wanted the world to look like.

Another thing is the dismissal of Blind Harry's account of William Wallaces adventures. Of course they will try to dismiss anything that shows that William Wallace beat the enemy on numerous occassions, more than the "enemy" of the time dared record in their own version of events.

This new series should be called "The English Version of Scottish History", because that's all it is - yet another attempt to rewrite history in favour of the union. They think if they keep telling it they way they want it to be, then everybody else will end up accepting it.

It's easy to be a historian, or an archeologist, or anything like that, because a lot of the time there is no evidence for or against any version of events, and nobody can easily dispute anything which is said or claimed.
83

Donart/NZ,

NZ 11/03/2008 08:42:51
The first casualty of war is TRUTH.

History is written by the victors.
84

Ally,

Edinburgh 11/03/2008 08:44:58
"To quote you sir; "PAROCHIAL, XENAPHOBIC, RACIST, BIGOTED AND SELF OBSESSED RACE" "

Hmmm. Actually I think we are parochial and self obsessed, and a fair number are bigoted. Xenophobic (I shall excuse the English-educated spelling of the original)...well, only where England is concerned. And having lived in France, England and America, we do have racists but we're a damn sight better off than most.

What is a pain in the backside, however, is our habit of spouting bile about the English for four years at a time then dutifully voting to get ruled by them again come election time. If you voted SNP, you've got a right to complain about our treatment by the English. Otherwise, frankly, you're England's bitch and she's going to treat you that way.

I moved back to Scotland having worked in various bits of England for 15 years, the main reason being that I was starting a family and Scotland is far and away the better place to bring kids up. It's generally safer, the health and education services are better and there's more sense of community. It's easy to pick out a thousand exceptions but in general terms I defy anyone to prove me wrong.

Oh, and I get to leave people like "George" behind...
85

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 11/03/2008 08:47:03
When did Scots get so fired up about historical accuracy? Braveheart was largely fictitional rubbish but it still had the audiences in Scotland clapping and cheering. I knew it was rubbish but I still loved it and still think it was a great film.
86

jtdx,

11/03/2008 08:50:18
I am just trying to figure out what the phrase "Scotland was a divided nation" has to do with England.
87

john z,

edinburgh 11/03/2008 08:54:09
'Headline: STATE broadcaster uses its influence for political control. BBC Scotland, widely know for being under the State control of the English parliament has at last come clean.

Sounds more like communist Russia everyday.
88

Donart/NZ,

NZ 11/03/2008 08:55:01
Because England like Scotland was originally not a unified kingdom. There wasn't a unified Englische kingdom until (help me you educated Scots) - anyway we all evolved from Angles Saxons and Jutes et al apart from the Picts who were perhaps the only indigenous people in Grand Bretagne!
89

GP,

11/03/2008 08:55:52
I am amazed that history is debated with such anger and venom. At primary school we were taught about local history and national history. Very little about UK or British history that is left for the secondary.
We also were given insights into the social end economic impacts of actions taken by governments.
Such as the creation of new east coast docks to destroy the Berwick economy. The undermining of local industry to enforce movement of labour south.
I suggest that parents demand local history teachings are brought back as it provides a sound understanding of what your ancestors did to ensure your current lifestyles.
90

sweet76,

Coventry 11/03/2008 08:56:19
I would love to see an honest, factual account of Scotland's history. Any fact based programme on the BBC would be good instead of the politically correct rubbish they promote. They had a golden opportunity to highlight the difficulties faced by the working class English and decided to kick it off with an interveiw with Nick Gimp from the BNP. Idiots.

#91 Donart NZ. The first casualty of war is innocence not truth.

#90. 'This new series should be called "The English Version of Scottish History", because that's all it is'. Bold statement. Have you seen this programme that hasn't been produced yet?
91

Rob7,

England 11/03/2008 08:57:58
I love history. I tend to watch any history program on tv etc, read the books etc. I would be interested in watching a history program about Scotland. When at school I was told only English history - didn't know anything about the act of union etc. I don't know if it would be a History from an English point of view - if so that would be a pitty, and a waste of time.
92

Jacqueline Hyde ,

11/03/2008 08:59:11
It appears that the proposed series is only a quasi-political documentary covering the last few hundred years rather than the formation of a nation from Caledonian ("Pict"), Hibernian ("Scots"), Germanic ("Saxon") and Nordic ("Viking") roots.

So, as Scottish kings and queens have also sat on the English throne since the mis-named "Union" of the Crowns in 1603, it is quite logical that the series should focus on the Scotland-England relationship.
93

scottishcoffindodgerno1,

Edinburgh 11/03/2008 09:01:20
china bear ,another outsider shoving their nose in
94

Donart/NZ,

Otago 11/03/2008 09:01:32
#97 GP

What a nice balanced comment. (Really)) - I suspect you do not have the advantage/burden of being either English or Scottish.

I've often heard here in NZ that far too much time is spent in schools teaching "British" history to the neglect of our own.

The secret is to retain a sense of humour, a talent the Scots have be it very dry.
95

scottishcoffindodgerno1,

Edinburgh 11/03/2008 09:06:50
#96,We the Scots were NOT evolved from the angles and saxons,thats the English you are thinking of.Put bluntly the english are just a bunch of illegal immigrants
96

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 11/03/2008 09:08:22
Looking forward to the episode when the BBC cover our recent history, for example how the UK dealt with the discovery of North Sea Oil.
Lied throughout the early years to prevent the Scots finding out how much was there and how long it would flow.
How much more of our history is hidden from us ?
Lord Goldsmith wants to drop the verses of the national anthem that are not usually sung. Would he be thinking about the third verse of the English anthem ? Why not have a new anthem to celebrate the emergence of true Britishness ? In fact why not get Parliament to pass a few acts so that in future Britain will be used instead of UK ?
In case you are unaware of it the third verse of our antiquated anthem -
"God grant that Marshall Wade,
May by Thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the Queen."
97

Donart/NZ,

Otago 11/03/2008 09:08:43
#97 GP

What a nice balanced comment. (Really)) - I suspect you do not have the advantage/burden of being either English or Scottish.

I've often heard here in NZ that far too much time is spent in schools teaching "British" history to the neglect of our own.

The secret is to retain a sense of humour, a talent the Scots have be it very dry.

#98 You say "innocence" I'll stick to "Truth" my following comment qualifies the first.

I'm definitely hitting the hay until the morning .

98

Nyren,

Cambridge,MA 11/03/2008 09:09:24
Ah, Scotia. When I produced my 2 vol. "Marginal Scotland" in 1989, I had to retrieve the 'lost' copy of the original manuscript from an Edinburgh printer's shelf,give the revised copy to a Swiss publisher, and watch while Gordon Donaldson ("It's his fiefdom !" said my old friend Sir Geoffrey Elton, who wouldn't do more than agree that it was very worthy)and his toadies in two Scottish Universities saw to it that no reputable Scottish journal reviewed it. The Swiss were not amused, and Dame Veronica Wedgwood, OM, and Robert Ogilvie,FBA, who advised on the revision of a years lost MSS and commended it to the press were dumfounded. Lord Hugh Douglas-Hamilton's sleuthing had found the long lost MSS which was revised and sent to Berne. Which is worse, the Tory and Nationalist censors in Scotland in 1989-forward, or the London BBC ? I recall lunch with the then head of BBC Scotland when a fop from the House of Lords phoned to ask Sir Andrew Stewart for some "titbit" to throw into a speech in the Lords "to amuse them" about Scotland. Hail Caledonia ! Keep the salmon flying through the waters ! Sir John Imrie got a similar call while we were disgussing the ancient MSS I found at Inverary Castle, which John turned into a proper archive there.
John Nyren Buchanan, Cambridge, MA 02138, U.S.A.
99

Donart/NZ,

Somewhere in the South Pacific 11/03/2008 09:15:05
Dear 106

As Eric and Ernie would have said, "There's no answer to that!"
100

Donart/NZ,

Me again 11/03/2008 09:20:18
#103

And I'll bet that you deny that Mel Gibson has Merovingian ancestry?
101

radical theologian,

california 11/03/2008 09:20:23
It's amazing how steamed up people can get about something nobody's seen. Are you all suggesting these academics have anything but their own self-interest at heart? Making a good TV program that anyone will want to watch is a complex business, and it needs to have entertainment value as well as factual stuff.
102

eric,

11/03/2008 09:26:15
Scotland was too busy trading with Europeans,While England was too busy fighting them.
103

mr angry,

ayrshire 11/03/2008 09:31:56
#106 One can only hope that you are inebriated , otherwise please seek therapy , you seem to have a dose of verbal diahorea.
104

AJ Fife,

11/03/2008 09:34:54
Initially, I thought a new series about Scottish history would be great, but it seems the BBC have botched it again - Scottish history as viewed by the English!

It's kind of like the thousands of documentary programmes about Nazi Germany - nearly always the Allies point of view and never from the ordinary German position!

Indeed, history is said to be written by the percieved victors, and it seems Scotland is no different. Surely we've had enough of English indifference and arrogance and it's time to write a new chapter and create our own history......

As Mel Gibson famously said - FREEEEEEDOM!!!!!!