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Thursday, 10th December 2009

Women come to the Fore! at the R&A

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Published Date: 25 January 2007
Women golfers are to be allowed into St Andrews clubhouse for first time Male members must use snooker room to change while women are there Change marks a minor victory for those fighting for equality in golf
Key quote
"If I was a top woman golfer and I was arriving in St Andrews for the Weetabix, where do I want to get changed? It's obvious - I want to be in that clubhouse." Lesley Burn, chief executive of the LGU

Story in full

IT IS enough to send the golfing traditionalists spluttering into their gin and tonics.

For the first time since the foundation stone of the Royal and Ancient clubhouse in St Andrews was laid on 13 July, 1853, its male members will find themselves barred from the locker room - by women.

In a major break with tradition, the R&A will allow those taking part in the Weetabix Women's British Open to have free run of the famous clubhouse that overlooks the 18th green of the Old Course.

The move means that, for one week in August, any R&A members who want to play on the other links in St Andrews will have to get changed in the club's snooker room while the elite champions of the women's game - such as Michelle Wie, Annika Sorenstam, Cristie Kerr and Natalie Gulbis - use the most famous locker room in golf.

Although Scottish Ladies Amateur Championships have been held at the Old Course in the past, the Women's British Open marks the first time the R&A clubhouse has been used for a women's event. The change, although temporary, is a minor victory for those fighting for equality in golf.

A survey undertaken by the Ladies Golf Union (LGU) last year revealed widespread opposition among female golfers to holding the Women's British Open at single-sex clubs such as Muirfield, Royal Troon and Royal St George's, which regularly hold the Open championship.

The same poll reported that 66 per cent of women golfers across the British Isles believe both men-only and women-only clubs attach a negative stigma to the game.

Lesley Burn, chief executive of the LGU, said: "Yes, the players are going to change in what is normally a men-only clubhouse. If we were going to stand rigidly by our principles, then we wouldn't possibly ever go there.

"But we felt a door was being opened when the invitation was made by the R&A.

"Of course, we have to respect the principles [of equality] we're working towards. But if we also want to raise the profile of ladies' golf and increase the commercial appeal of our championship, then we can't turn away from somewhere like St Andrews.

"If I was a top woman golfer and I was arriving in St Andrews for the Weetabix, where do I want to get changed? It's obvious - I want to be in that clubhouse."

The Old Course is a public links, run by the St Andrews Links Trust, which is open to players of both sexes. The R&A clubhouse, on the other hand, is a private-members, men-only facility. Members' wives are often made welcome on social occasions, but on a day-to-day basis, the clubhouse is used by men, while female guests are accommodated in nearby Forgan House.

On a practical level, the alternative, the St Andrews Links clubhouse, would not be big enough to accommodate the 150 golfers who are expected to tee up in the £1 million Women's British Open.

Ms Burn, who succeeded Andy Salmon as chief executive of the LGU last year, also believes special circumstances surrounding golf in St Andrews, where there are five single-sex clubs, was a factor in accepting the R&A's invitation.

"We appreciate the challenges posed by this situation," she said. "We've been working hand-in-hand with the Links Trust to put on our event at the Old Course, which is a public course.

"The way golf is set up in St Andrews means that there are five clubs using the links, two of them ladies only and three of them all men."

Ms Burn was more hesitant about the possibility of a merger in the near future between the LGU and the R&A's rules and governance body. "This is a question that's been raised before," she said. "In some respects, the possibility of one governing body for golf would be fabulous. But we have to be aware of the private members' aspect of the R&A, which is still an all-male club. Right now, I don't think we're there yet.

"What I want to add, though, is that I could not have been welcomed more warmly to my new post than I have been by the R&A. On a professional basis, our people are working hand-in-hand in a number of areas with the team at the R&A."

Asked if it was possible the LGU might consider staging championships at single-sex clubs such as Muirfield in the future, Ms Burn replied: "I'm not qualified to answer that question and would need to take counsel on that."

LONG FIGHT FOR EQUALITY ON GREEN AND IN
CLUBHOUSE
GOLF has traditionally been dominated
by men. But over the past 15 years, the fight for equality on the green and in the clubhouse has grown.

While many clubs allow female members, there have often been restrictions on tee-times and access to facilities.

The unequal treatment is particularly stark in the clubhouses, where women are sometimes kept away from the main bar and often allowed in only when they are accompanied by a male chaperone.

A new generation of female professionals, such as Annika Sorenstam and Michelle Wie, is challenging the status quo and has even gained the right to qualify for previously male-only tournaments, including the Open.

Lawmakers are also beginning to take notice. Last year, the EU made it illegal for mixed clubs to discriminate against members on the basis of gender.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 25 January 2007 4:16 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Women and golf
 
1

Guga,

Rockall 25/01/2007 01:51:26

The country is definitely going to the dogs. We should never have given them the vote.

2

Scaramouche,

25/01/2007 02:07:15

.......... or golf clubs, apparently!!!

3

WBB,

25/01/2007 04:07:24

They don't call them golf clubs mate. They call them sticks and don't ask me which end they hold. I think it just depends as what outfit they have on that day !! LoL

How can male and female golfers ever be equal anyway? Blooming woman start half way up a fairway and my drives, from off the back tees, never get near their first ball !!

We are the ones fighting equality here I tell you !!

4

Voldemort,

Tiree 25/01/2007 05:30:01

Natalie looks hot !

I may have to build a golfcourse .... and a clubhouse ....

5

Paul Voltaire,

www.paulvoltaire.spaces.live.com 25/01/2007 05:30:15

Hardly 'News', this.
Just an ordinary tale of snobbish folk.

6

Media 1,

cape town 25/01/2007 06:03:26

I do not think that woman should have been permitted in the clubhouse..It has little to do with discrimination and everything to do with tradition..They should have built a new clubhouse for the ladies...

7

Allan Graham,

Huntington Beach Ca 25/01/2007 06:04:45

Another clear example of how far society has fallen.

The Sorenstam's and the Wie's must be having a good giggle at the metrosexuals who have voted for the expulsion of their own gender from the locker room.......

R & A Members be aware.....this is the beginning of the end....unless you do something about it........

I wonder if the mince with poached egg on top will disappear from the lunchtime menu.....Via the Burn demand?....Nay.....Via the Burn ingratiating smile and equally ingratiating request!

Anyone remember the case of the frog tossed into the pan of boiling water.....and his frog pal in the tepid water....the heat being turned up slowly?......

This is what the R & A need to pay attention to.......

8

WBB,

25/01/2007 06:07:36

Actually it is a pretty significant story. This is the first time ever that the bastion of male chauvenism has been breeched. The closest a woman would have got before was pushing a vacum cleaner around the floors. And that's assuming they did not employ male cleaners just to keep up the no woman rule. Would not put it past them.

Also doubt if they would have rolled over had this not been a pretigious event though. On top of that there would have been pressure on them from all sorts of groups pushing for this type of change.

About time that this nonsense was stopped anyway. Another shocking example of the class system well and truly at work.

9

WBB,

25/01/2007 06:13:03

#6 You are a right one mate. LOL

Some people even believe you when you write this p@sh. You must get up everyday thinking what wind up can I insert today then?

If the Scotsman wrote an article saying that the sea was blue you would disagree and say no it's pink!!

I enjoy your comments though as they make me laugh.

10

Allan Graham,

Huntington Beach Ca 25/01/2007 06:16:21

# 8.......This is not a class issue.....this is a gender issue..........

It is high time that people....men and women....recognise there is a difference between the two......

Men are men.....and women....are women......full stop......

There needs to be some separation......for the sanity of both.....

11

Mad Jock,

Offshore, Denmark 25/01/2007 06:22:07

The journalist needs to get his facts straight. The Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers, at Muirfield, closed the locker room to members for a ladies tournament two years ago. While not as prestigious as the Weetabix, it surely shows that it has been done before. As the HCEG is the senior club anyway, being older than the R & A by more than a decade, it was reasonable to expect that they do it first. However, it was obviously not newsworthy enough at the time, and while the members of the HCEG value their privacy, it would perhaps have mollified the feminists a little earlier if the story had been given a wider audience.

12

Bite-Back,

25/01/2007 06:33:31

I would'nt say to much, their vicious now you know, it will be like big brother all over again!

13

Lanna,

S. Calif 25/01/2007 06:53:03

#1 Guga, ...what then, keep us barefoot, pregnant, in the kitchen??

#8 Allan, thank you for pointing out there is a difference! I agree about the 'sanity time', though, it is sometimes needed! How's the pier holding up? I miss cycling down that a way!

#6 Media-wan...I'm surprised you didn't advise a definite and immediate separation of couches, but I somehow doubt the ladies will like your preferred disciplinary actions regarding their selection of the wrong couch!

14

Age of Reason,

the Green Corner 25/01/2007 07:08:32

We can only hope that the ladies do not wash their balls in the sinks.

15

Graeme,

Guangzhou 25/01/2007 07:21:04

# 6 Tradition is important. Ninety nine percent of male golfers must agree with you.

#10 #13 Women are different? I personally don’t mind having woman around. In fact it makes me sit up. However, without mentioning the golf club in Edinburgh lets look at two (I could list out scores more but no time) examples of where men and woman are ‘different’ at this club.

The women now have a flower committee that sits long into the evenings to work out arrangements for the Clubhouse (no pun intended). This is ‘different’. Also for whatever reason the male members find this committee extremely amusing. This is also ‘different’.
The best thing about this Club was the ‘tradition’ for the quick pace that the game was played. The new ‘tradition’ is that the game is now much slower. This is also categorised under ‘different’.

I thought it important that I put you all straight on the terms.

16

WBB,

25/01/2007 07:26:48

#'s 10 and 14

Are you guys from the UK originally? If you are / were then you should know how it works there.

Upper, working and lower classes.
Then within the upper class there is a distinct difference between men and woman.

A gender issue would cut across all classes. This issue does not. You won't get many honest, hard working people from average backgrounds becoming members in this establishment.

When the upper classes in the UK are involved, as they will no doubt be in this case, it is right that we target the system that allows this to openly happen. You call it what you like.

17

William King,

25/01/2007 07:38:38

#3 cORRECT - WHEN THEY CAN USE OUT TEES then and only then can they use our clubhouse

18

Pete39,

Tassy 25/01/2007 07:49:39

I do not know if there was much class distinction in golf in the 1950's. How you were treated related to your handicap. The fairer sex were allotted facilities and times on the course. We even had mixed foursomes that our fathers insisted was our duty to be a participant. We were there to be admired, caddied for and enthusiastically cheered when we occassionally scored a par. Now that was the good old days.

19

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 25/01/2007 07:51:12

I welcome this move. Bout time there was more top tottie doing sport. S'long as they wear similar outfits to the above lassie!

20

ScottyEdi,

25/01/2007 07:51:30

uh hummm... is there a little male testosterone showing here gentlemen? It sure sounds like a few egos are being bruised. It's just a week, GET OVER IT! Women have put up with guys running off to play their game(s) for decades, heck centuries, what's all the fuss? Of course men and women are different and most men and women wouldn't change that. Just let the gals have their day, they deserve it.

21

ScottyEdi,

25/01/2007 07:53:49

maybe the solution is a womens locker room with equal space.

22

IanW,

Germany 25/01/2007 08:13:07

This is blatant sex discrimination. Why should the men be obliged to change elsewhere?

There should be no discrimination - everyone should be allowed to use the locker rooms to change be they male or female. If someone does not like this or feels shy, etc. then why don't they make their own arrangements for changing elsewhere.

Here in Germany many sports clubs have communal changing and it does not disturb anyone one little bit. The people are adult and are there to play their sport and not to ogle the bodies of others. It works fine here so why are we in the UK so prudish?

23

WBB,

25/01/2007 08:24:07

This is Scotland we are talking about here. The Home of Prude!!

24

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 25/01/2007 08:26:04

Hi Ian, hope things are good for you.

I understand what you are saying having spent some time in Germany. They certainly have a different attitude toward the human! However, over here in the UK (as you know) we are a lot more prudish and it's something we thrive on if you know what I mean?

Must be a throw back to the Victorian times when showing a bit of ankle turned men into lustful beasts! Don't think that'll ever change and seriously, I wouldn't want some other man eyeing up my wife, inadvertantly or otherwise! ;-)

25

IanW,

Germany 25/01/2007 08:34:35

Hi Dave,

If your wife is a looker you should be proud of her and laugh at the other blokes as she is yours!!

Yes I know it is wishful thinking but can you imagine sharing a shower with that italian girl who has her own nude calendar?

26

Scaramouche,

25/01/2007 08:38:48

Did mention how much I detest golf?

27

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 25/01/2007 08:45:15

I hear ya Ian!

28

Privateman,

East Lothian 25/01/2007 09:02:31

#6, and separate ones for blacks, muslims, gays and anyone else you don't think is "equal" to the magnificent white male eh? #9 has you bang to rights.

29

Cadgers,

Perth 25/01/2007 09:18:48

Shock, horror and "frankly my dear I don't etc,etc,etc"

30

Antonine Plato,

Glasgow 25/01/2007 09:28:48

http://platosway.blogspot.com

Well, they're probably better than half the guys I see on the course!

31

Noel,

Glasgow 25/01/2007 09:29:50

Hi WBB! Where are you from? I should point out that there is also a very strong middle class in this country. Moreover 'breeched' does not exist as a word. I think you are confusing breach with breeches (things that only real men wear). Get your facts right!

32

AJ,

Fife 25/01/2007 09:39:28

Natalie Gulbis would be acceptable anywhere, but when the likes of Laura Davies, Dale Reid, etc trot in, it's not such a great idea!!

33

Brendan,

25/01/2007 09:53:26

If a lady is going to play golf for the best part of the day, what time can her man expect his tea at?

34

Repton,

edinburgh 25/01/2007 09:59:42

One foot in the door,the R & A are daft to let them in.If I was a member I would`nt be giving up my locker room for the snooker room.Best take the situation Ian describes and say that`s what it is ,you can come in and so can the members,like it or lump it.Once this lot take over the end is nigh.

35

Repton,

edinburgh 25/01/2007 10:02:29

Ps Dave,you must think your wife is worth eyeing up.Is there a lot of tottie up in these far isles?

36

Pete39,

Tassy 25/01/2007 10:09:28

Well, they have portable toilets which I believe are very civilised, why not portable female golfers changing rooms. I mean, we relied on golf courses to get us away from getting our ears nipped or suggestions of self improvement. What else is left? There is a limit to the number of guys who fancy sailing round the world and apart from that who can afford a ship in the first place.

37

AJ,

Fife 25/01/2007 10:29:30

Rulesbutnotrulers,

I like it, but you forgot - shanking and foursomes!!

38

Guga,

Rockall 25/01/2007 10:36:50

#13 Lanna. Yes, and on a chain running from the bedroom to the kitchen.

39

AJ,

Fife 25/01/2007 10:43:10

Gugs,

Lanna's a true American Southern Belle and she's not used to such coarse talk!!

Go easy on her!

40

AJ,

Fife 25/01/2007 10:43:38

Sorry I meant Guga!!

41

Henrietta Carruthers,

Strathblane 25/01/2007 10:45:38

Allan at number 10, my dear chap of course there are major differences between the sexes we are all aware of that, as I can recall..now let me see..yes losing one's virginity was a tad uncomfortable but it was a waltz compared to the pain one experiences giving birth, especially my twins..that was almost unbearable and could not be tolerated without major pain relief. As for menstrual pain and discomfort an unpleasant reminder that one is female and has duties to fulfil. Speaking of which while you men heartily heave and grunt your way to sexual fulfillment perhaps you would care to consult a manual from time to time. Most of my bridge ladies club entourage gaily inform me that their husbands are in a sorry way when it comes to matters of the female anatomy and its function. However this is a new generation and hopefully young ladies of the future will have no cause for complaint.

I am all for separation of the sexes, otherwise I would have to put up with cavernous snoring and horrendous odour of passed wind most evenings. Having ones own bed should not be a luxury.

Well I have said all I have to say, I will let you fine gentlemen get back to your salivating over the young lady in the picture. I had no intention of disturbing your 'male bonding' session.

42

doris d,

25/01/2007 10:48:14

If I am golfing with male friends at Luffness GC in East Lothian I am not allowed to walk through the front door with them: I have to use the entrance at the rear of the clubhouse-change in a broom cupboard and drink with them in the mixed lounge which is not much bigger than a broom cupboard.
If I play at Muirfield (no Ladies' tees) and were to have a drink afterwards I would have to sit in the car park and have a drink handed out to me through the bar window.
Membership of these clubs is heavily represented by members of the judiciary and the legal system in general. If I were a black female it would be interesting to see whether I could claim Race Discrimination on the grounds of my exclusion from the premises!!! If I were a disabled black female my case might even be stronger?? As a white female, competent golfer, I guess I'll just have to rely on beating the old shankers on the course instead!!

43

jacky,

England 25/01/2007 10:56:26

So Muslims will be enforced to allow their women to accompany them in the prayer hall at the local Mosque then?

Or is it just one law for us and another for them?

44

Guga,

Rockall 25/01/2007 11:02:38

#41 AJ. Ach, I'm only having a bit of fun winding them up.

45

CharlieW,

Edinburgh 25/01/2007 11:09:00

As a student, I used to work in the R&A clubhouse. They allow women in to work as waitresses, and it used to give us a laugh watching the lecherous old duffers fall over themselves with excitement when a young student 'filly' entered the room. They'll need paramedics on standby if Natalie Gulbis enters the members room in that skirt, which I hope she does.

The plural of 'Gin and Tonic' is 'Gins and Tonic'. It's this paper that has gone to the dogs.

46

AJ,

Fife 25/01/2007 11:09:49

This anti-woman thing in Scotland is out of order, even in Afghanistan the women are allowed on golf courses!!

Indeed, they always lead the way up the fairway, but it's really something to do with land mines!!

47

Pomona man,

25/01/2007 11:13:18

16 WBB. Keeping women in their "place" is not just the preserve of the "upper classes". It is also very evident amongst the "working class" where men are supposed to wear the trousers and be the breadwinner and the womens' role is that of housewife - ok she will be allowed to go out and do a part time cleaning job to help feed the kids so he does not have to cut down on booze/fags/bookies.

It is interesting that the greatest equality is amongst the educated "middle class", where independent careers and finances are now commonplace within a partnership.

However, clubs are clubs. Any group of people are entitled to associate with like people in a club, and should not be forced to do otherwise. Many golf clubs were founded by men and their clubhouses and courses built by men for men. They can choose to open their doors to and provide facilities for women, but if they wish to keep it for men, why shouldn't they. Its theirs. Mixed groups and women are quite entitled to found their own clubs with their own rules with their own money, and should not automatically expect to take over other people's private clubs.

PS - 38 & 39 what about cricket? middle wicket, middle stump, up stumps, bowling a maiden over, bouncers, googlies, full toss, crease, gully, no balls, slash.

48

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 25/01/2007 11:21:29

Aye Aye Repton

I wouldn't have married her if I didn't think she was a looker mate! She's a fair belle herself and not without her admirers in the community.

There are a few lovely ladies up here, are you thinking of a visit to find out?

49

Brian not the messiah,

East Lothian 25/01/2007 11:23:22

In terms of things that women can fight for equal rights for I'm sure there are more important things such as equal pay in the workplace and so on.

To be honest one of the things that puts me off golf is that so male dominant. Without sounding too sexist, I would rather spend 18 holes walking round chatting to a mixed group of men and woman, or even just women.

Why don't a bunch of women get together and just set up such a club, and then exclude members of the R&A.

50

AJ,

Fife 25/01/2007 11:32:57

The good thing about the R&A, is that you where all the nations crusty old farts are, at any given time!!!

51

AJ,

Fife 25/01/2007 11:34:09

52,

Should be "you know"!!!

Typo alert today!!

52

Joanna,

Cambs 25/01/2007 11:38:02

Personally, I don't see a problem with men having their own clubs........ as long as they don't use them to bash us over the head, grab us by our hair and drag us back to the cave.

Those days are gone............ surely?

53

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 25/01/2007 11:40:24

Joanna


Ugh ugh?

54

Lorna B,

Edinburgh 25/01/2007 11:43:03

I think it's great that we are moving forward on this subject. I know we can look at the past but there does seem to be some progress albeit only a little.

Change, invariably takes time and it may be that most of the problem lies with the female powerbrokers who want to have thier cake and eat it. I think they like the idea of mixing it with the big boys. If they stuck by their beliefs then having to change elsewhere would have highlighted the problem to a much wider audience. Now male only clubs will be seen as supporting equality when on fact they are only panderning to it.

Anyway, for a bit of fun on the subject, all us girls out there should check out the Principal's Nose website. www.principalsnose.com Very very funny!

55

calum,

25/01/2007 12:22:44

If some women are that keen, why don't they open their own, women-only club. Women bar staff, greenkeepers, starters, committee etc. The whole works.
I would be perfectly happy with that and would have no intention of burning my underpants in protest. This crushing desire to invade so-called male bastions baffles me. Why any woman would want to listen to male conversation and vice versa is beyond comprehension.
Quick, I better get off this PC and get with the hoovering. The wife's coming up the street!

56

Benlomond,

Loch Lomond 25/01/2007 12:52:46

Is it true a woman complained at a sign on the fairway that said "Dont lick your Balls" as a weed killer had been used on the greens.

57

calum,

25/01/2007 13:17:51

No, the sign said that it was advisable to clean your balls with a soft brush rather than one with stiff bristles.

58

AJ,

Fife 25/01/2007 13:25:28

I remember ball cleaners beside tees, that required the golfer to use an action similar to a ham shank motion!! This is surely another example of the freudian nature of golf!! Or it could be a statement about golfers in general!

59

eric,

Lothian 25/01/2007 13:59:57

Is ma dinna ready wumin?

60

Allan Graham,

Huntington Beach Ca 25/01/2007 14:35:30

# 16...........
Oh heavens.....when you speak of "classes"in the Uk and if the contributors are from the UK.

Do try and not insult us...We may not live in St.Andrews....but we know what we speak of.......

Yes...I am from the UK......

Are you a member of the R & A?......Do you really know anything at all of what you are speak?...

Or have you some hate you nurture deep in your bosom........?

61

DougB,

Florida 25/01/2007 14:55:04

This is better than Benny Hill reruns

62

Discretionpvs,

Canada 25/01/2007 15:00:20

Well, here goes my tuppence worth, although maybe as a Canadian-born whose forebears were Scots, maybe I should say "two cents" worth. Obviously some of you are golfers. Personally I consider the 'game' a good walk gone bad, but I don't deny the skills needed. As a kid during WW2 I lived about a mile away from a "private' GC. Skiied there in the winter, caddied in the summer. EVERYBODY was excluded from the club except white, anglo-saxon, Protestant males.. Now some 60+ years on, the membership is wide open, I believe. (I no longer live there, thank God). No one suffered. And to be frank I am sick of all this PC and NIMBY nonsense so prevalent today. Go for total equality. Everyone uses the locker room at the same time, but only one person to a stall, please.
Could be a real eye-opening giggle. Cheers

63

Allan Graham,

Huntington Beach Ca 25/01/2007 15:17:38

Henrietta at # 43......

I have no intention of making this a "memo war"....however I cannot allow your comments to go un-answered.

"My dear chap"?.....how conciliatory of you to begin with......

I am appalled by your unfortunate pain at the loss of your virginity.....How distressful for you.....I am aghast at this......In all sincerity......

I cannot ignore your demand that I pay attention to your own exerience of childbirth....Nay.....I congratulate you madam.....and I congratulate even further your ability to endure your menstrual travails........

As to heaving and grunting......I have never asked any of my gentlemen friends.......(gentle men) how their bridge-playing spouses have ever managed to get through their days.....(apart from their gins and tonic......dear-oh-dear....did I get that properly?)

Did you say cavernous snoring? Horrendous odour?

My heavens......Methinks a person ought to choose one's bedfellows more wisely......but then.....This must be one's own experience......otherwise one would have made no comment....would one.......well?....would one?

64

Repton,

edinburgh 25/01/2007 15:39:24

Dave ,you know what the song says "When you`re in love with a beautiful woman....."Might just come up there if you can fix me up but don`t tell my wife.

65

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 25/01/2007 15:44:59

The wifes got an unattached sister. She's a honey too! No problem my friend!! ;-)

66

Lanna,

S. Calif 25/01/2007 16:03:49

#44 doris d, great last sentence, good luck to ya! :)

Joanna #54, but your forgetting the bearskin rug by the fire; I'm sure he'll make it up to you! ;)

#65 I always thought the best thing for a golf course was to gallop my horse across the green, but here I might get shot for that!! :/ :) (just kiddin, before anyone gets in an uproar on both accounts)

Dave #68, I think your sis-in-law may have her own plans!

AJ, you're priceless!!

67

Media 1,

cape town 25/01/2007 16:06:57

This is all nonsense...NOT permitting ladies into the club house was NOT DISCRIMINATORY! It was custom.

If I build a golf course tomorrow and decide that one of the rooms is off limits to men then that is my perogative.

If women were not permitted into the club house then RESPECT the position of the club.

What is next? A girls parents suing an all boys school because she is not permitted to join?

68

Discretionpvs,

Canada 25/01/2007 16:28:05

T0:70 Media 1. Re: parents suing schools.
Sorry old sport, but it has already happened. How do you think all this political correctness started? Wasn't spontaneous for sure.

69

Sedov,

Scotland. 25/01/2007 16:40:53

I'm all for this extension of rich women to join in with rich men at St Andrews. I note that they are forced to change in the snooker room, poor darlings. Potential here for topless snooker tournaments sponsored by a red button sattellite TV station. A bit of pin money to pay for the caddie, what?

70

Media 1,

cape town 25/01/2007 17:14:14

#71 DiscretionPVS: All this PC nonsense is a shocking indicetment on the state of our world. Why is it wrong to have an all mens club house? Why is it wrong to have an all girls school?

If I walk into the ladies showers following a round of golf. Is it discriminatory of them to ask me to leave? Based on the cases we have seen thus far, we are heading to the point in which it would be acceptable for me to enter a ladies shower room.

We may even get to the stage in which Shop assistants can sue engineering companies for failing to hire them for jobs they are ill equipped to handle. Perhaps the engineering company should offer the shop assistant the opportunity prior to passing judgement based on their CV..

Its all farcical and its about to become far worse....

71

Angus Mor,

God's Own Island 25/01/2007 17:39:25

It's becoming pretty obvious that women require more in the way of facilities than men. That is fine in itself, as long as they are prepared to pay for it by way of paying higher subs than men or maybe a pay per use type arrangement.

72

Angus Mor,

God's Own Island 25/01/2007 17:53:33

Should be also have seperate wars and battles for the men and women on the front line of the armed services?

73

MWM,

Argyll 25/01/2007 18:04:22

I'm sure Prince Andrew can't wait. New tottie!!

74

Media 1,

cape town 25/01/2007 18:20:46

Good photo though! Some pair eh??

PHWOAR!!!!!!!!

75

Scotscanuk,

Canada 25/01/2007 18:25:34

Is'nt it about time Scotland came into the 21st Century. I remember being in a Clubhouse in Inverness and a member bragging about the Ladies paying full membership and having no voting rights' also only allowed to play on certain days. It was in the seventies, has nothing changed? for the better.

76

Angus Mor,

God's Own Island 25/01/2007 18:35:11

Scotscanuk

Thats a fair sentiment there but let me ask you this, where men go to enjoy some time away from their partners? Where do men go to enjoy some guy time/alone time or male bonding whilst engaging in some competition?

I see there are now "ladies only" nights a local swimming pools/gynms now. As far as I'm concerned that's discrimination and this badgering will eventually and utterly backfire an cause more segragation in society than before.

77

Media 1,

cape town 25/01/2007 18:36:36

#79 sCOTSCANUK: Its not about better its about respecting tradition...The ladies showed scant regard for the tradition of the club and thats the bottom line..

78

MaggieMae,

Torrey Pines, La Jolla, California 25/01/2007 18:40:46

Progress, or is it?

Like Doris D. (44), I understand what it is like at Luffness GC, having worked there as a waitress, and have spent much time at Muirfield (where I have changed and hung out, and got warm in the Starter's hut!), and in St. Andrews. As a child, I was so put off golf because of the all male attitude which discouraged me ...as well as the weather!

Now, I am an active member of Torrey Pines Women's Golf Club in La Jolla, California where there is no hint of discrimination, where women are welcomed and of course, where fine weather playing is all year around - just turn on your TV over the next 4 days and watch Tiger Woods etc. enjoy this fabulous course in the Buick Invitational. Today will be 71 degrees (F), blue skies and glorious!

Encouraging women to play golf and feel welcomed wherever they play is the key point here - I vote for more inclusiveness.

Off now to watch Tiger play....

79

Joe McParland,

Fife 25/01/2007 18:50:10

#17 They are playing of our tees!!!!!!!

80

Joe McParland,

Fife 25/01/2007 19:05:24

A member of the R & A tried to join one of the St.Andrews ladies clubs and was told in no uncertain terms that he would not be welcomed in the next hundred years. This just proves that the women are equally as happy with the situation in St.Andrews.

81

Joe McParland,

Fife 25/01/2007 19:08:42

I know of another local golf club that the ladies tried to get the same rights as the men until it was explained to them that they would then have to play of mens tees and pay the same green fees as men. They soon backtracked.

82

Lanna,

S. Calif 25/01/2007 19:15:45

Angus #80 I'm all in agreement with that Angus... him inside goes to shoot pool with friends every week...meanwhile I'm left to do what I wish! Sometimes I go out with friends, often times I curl up by the fire with a glass of wine and a good book!

83

Lanna,

S. Calif 25/01/2007 19:37:25

#87 Proper golf or no is a matter of interpretation!!

....Maggie is in beautiful La Jolla, she's having the last laugh here!!! ;))
(Maggie, I used to go the the beach inbetween classes at UCSD!...enjoy your golf!!)

84

Henrietta Carruthers,

Strathblane 25/01/2007 19:57:03

Allan at number 66....Of course I am speaking from experience but this is what age does to a person, it tends to remove ones dignity, that and several other facts of life, including childbirth. My husband is a fine man but the only exercise he takes now is the odd game of golf. I am of the opinion that all of his muscle has dropped due to his wee 'accidents'. As I said pregnancy too can be an undignified experience, well what can you expect after 26 hours in labour, and having to receive 2 blood transfusions after being cut from front bottom to back bottom. The icing on the cake was the dawning realisation that one had, at the grand old age of 28, hammerhoids. Married life starts out a bowl or roses but as time erodes the mind and memory we forget the initial passion and gaiety. The joi de vivre is replaced by the monotony of everyday toil and the need to feather one's nest for the future. Such is life and a regular bridge meet with the girls helps to take the edge of the harsh realities of 21st century living. Several of them do partake of the odd gin and tonic, I however, prefer a dry sherry, a far safer bet. Disclipine will not allow me to indulge in too much as it can result in the titters, inacceptable for a woman of my standing . I keep a stern eye on my girls and none of them are allowed to disgrace themselves. I do hope I have not disillusioned you but then again I have the feeling that you are a mature individual and not a young chap. When time takes its toll on your inner organs and dignity flees...heed my words and keep a stiff upper lip. If your wife objects then she can remove herself to another room and leave you in peace, as I have done.

85

Sambo,

The deep south 25/01/2007 21:00:24

Media 1,
Just curious are you a man or woman?

86

Sambo,

The deep south 25/01/2007 21:09:22

The last time I saw Laura Davies play I figure she'd need a clubhouse all by herself to change, now Natalie Gulbis can change at my house anytime she wishes.

87

Sambo,

The deep south 25/01/2007 21:18:46

I was always under the impression that GOLF meant Gentlemen Only Ladies Forbidden.

88

AJ,

Fife 25/01/2007 22:23:30

The more I look at the photo, the more I think it's time to invest in daft troosers and a grotesque diamond style jumper. Plus a black and white pair of brogue golf shoes with a matching poofy wee glove, that you tuck in yer back pooch. Not to forget a stupid looking visor advertising gowf baws!

On second thoughts, even a tasty bit o' crumpet, isny worth aw that!!!!

89

The Wizard,

OZ 25/01/2007 22:49:34

Nothing is sacred anymore.

A golf commetater in the good old US of A once told the public that before a match Arnold Palmer's wife would kiss his balls for luck.
Wonder what the ladies at the R & A do?

90

ScottyEdi,

26/01/2007 02:02:30

#70, you're not far off. In America they're tried to make it so girls can join the boy scouts and vice versa. If there's an all white school the NAACP sues until blacks are allowed HOWEVER if it's an all black school there are NO WHITES ALLOWED and not a court in the nation that's tried to change that one. Like the girl who wore a cross on a chain to school and was made to take it off but the muslim women and men get to wear the veils and turbans. In fact isn't it true that muslim men don't have to abide by the motorcycle helmet law because helmets don't fit over the hair knotted on their head and/or the turban? Different rules every where you look.

91

Lanna,

S. Calif 26/01/2007 03:13:16

#92 Sambo, I think it's more like...Golf: Guys Out Lollygagging Freely

AJ, ...my, ain't you jest a peach! We can speak on costumes, later! ;)

92

Branda,

Arizona 26/01/2007 05:24:50

#43 & #89
> "...losing one's virginity...men heartily heave and grunt to sexual fulfillment...cavernous snoring and horrendous odour...menstrual pain....
experiences giving birth...cut front bottom to back bottom...wee 'accidents'...hammerhoids...time takes its toll on your inner organs and dignity flees..."

Ewww! Way too much info, Henrietta. No wonder guys don't want girls around! Discussing body functions is generally taboo.

> "I keep a stern eye on my girls..."

I would imagine marriage seems rather bleak if not horrific to them.

I hope you're okay though. There are Physicians—Urology, Gastroenterology, Endocrinology (hormone imbalances) Otolaryngology (snoring)—that can help with those sorts of issues.

Branda

93

Theoden,

over the hill 26/01/2007 14:39:51

an whit happens if ye ur a transsexual? whur de ye git ready then?


 

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