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Wednesday, 9th December 2009

Braveheart Wallace is a monster, says Gibson

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Published Date: 25 October 2009
ACTOR Mel Gibson has told Scotland on Sunday that William Wallace was a "monster" and admitted he romanticised the iconic 13th century freedom fighter in his film Braveheart.
In an interview to mark the 15th anniversary of the film's release, the Hollywood star said his version of the patriot was less thuggish than the real Wallace, who led Scotland's fight against the English.

"Wallace wasn't as nice as the characte
r we saw up there (on the screen], we romanticised him a bit," Gibson, 53, said.

"He was a monster. He always smelled of smoke; he was always burning people's villages down. He was like what the Vikings called 'a berserker'. We shifted the balance because someone's got to be the good guy against the bad guy; that's the way stories are told."

His remarks have fuelled the controversy that have surrounded the film, which was adopted by many Scottish Nationalists as a rallying call for independence.

The film won a string of Oscars, including Best Film and Best Director, but historians and critics have long criticised it for its inaccuracies.

However, Gibson's revised analysis of the historical figure on whom he based his character was also disputed by historians yesterday.

"It's fascinating," said Fiona Watson, a Wallace biographer. "After 15 years, he's giving us the other version of the myth, the knuckles dragging across the floor one, which is equally untrue. The real man surely lies in between. After all, Wallace went to the continent on diplomatic missions after the debacle at Falkirk, and I don't know (of] many berserkers who did that."

Watson added: "And if we're looking for uncivilised behaviour in that period then Wallace is not the only one indulging in it – EdwardI was surely at least as bad if not worse."




Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 24 October 2009 10:36 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: William Wallace
 
1

polls,

Scotland 24/10/2009 23:33:38
The SOS really has to get it's act together, what is causing these headlines?
2

Abel Magwitch,

25/10/2009 00:11:58
Was it Samuel Goldwyn who said "never let the truth get in the way of a good story".
3

,

25/10/2009 00:55:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 25/10/2009 04:36:04
There is a great piece of music called the "Berserking".
The word comes from "bare sark" ie fighting without a chain mail shirt.
5

Baggy Troosers,

25/10/2009 05:15:01
We know William Wallace was no angel.
You dont become a great Warrior ,you dont become a Great Freedom Fighter by Slapping your Enemy in the face .
6

Mcsnagpile,

25/10/2009 06:29:07
The serfs did most of the fighting and dying every where.
Any roads--in a time without divorce, soap and toilet paper everybody was angry.
7

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 07:24:58

This journal has a sad reputation for selective quotes used to embellish a contrived headline.

______________________________________________________

On the subject of the movie though:-

I thought Patrick McGoohan's portrayal of Edward I was excellent but the character itself was far too civilised to be the real Longshanks.

8

Boy Wonder,

25/10/2009 07:28:54
Methinks, back in the olsen days, they were all monsters, going by what passes for civilised behaviour nowadays.

You just cannot apply 21st century thinking to a 13th century mentality! There's been 800 years of progress since ... well, allegedly!
9

,

25/10/2009 08:10:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 08:59:57

At the end of the 13th Century Scotland was subjugated by its larger neighbour.

This subjugation was imposed by the Despotic ruler of England to enrich himself, and his gang of thugs some of whom were Lords.

Andrew de Moray and William Wallace organised resistance to this terrible injustice by pursuing the Notion of Freedom and Independence.

The struggle for Independence gathered momentum until there was enough support to settle the matter at The Bannockburn, Stirling, 24 June 1314.
______________________________________________________

Ayrshire Creepy Scot,25/10/2009 08:10:07

Says:-
"You just need to take a look at the SNP to see 13th century thinking at its best."
______________________________________________________

You have indeed pointed out the similarity between then and now and I'm sure that the SNP appreciate your support in this matter.

11

mr broon,

Edinburgh 25/10/2009 09:02:51
As was the medieval practice, during the Wars of Independence both sides committed terrible atrocities on a regular basis.

Today, we would describe them as war crimes.

Log on to the medieval poet Blind Harry's website about Wallace which in recent years has received millions of hits.

Much of what Blind Harry described was fiction but some of it was also fact.

However, Wallace was a Big Jessie compared to Robert the Bruce and his lieutenants, like his right-hand man Sir James Douglas.

For several years after Bannockburn, the 'Good'(sic) Sir James and his guerilla army wreaked havoc in the North of England as far south as York where they indiscriminately slaughtered men women and children, burnt towns and villages, and stole or slaughtered livestock leaving the country a wasteland.

The English garrisons could do little to stop the Scots and thousands of Northern English became medieval refugees and travelled South, or to the nearest fortified keep, to escape the carnage.

However, this terrible scorched earth policy drove the English to agree to accept the Treaty of Northampton, acknowledging Scottish Independence!

Parents in the North of England used to tell their bairns to settle down for the night or "the Black Douglas will come and get you"!

Churchill described the Scots slaughter of sleeping English babies and children in A History of the English Speaking Peoples.

12

Pilrig.,

Livingston 25/10/2009 09:13:01
To quote fae John Ford's film "The Man Who Shot Liberty Vallance" - When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.
13

EdwinB,

25/10/2009 09:15:01
'the end of the 13th Century Scotland was subjugated by its larger neighbour.'

Actually for most of the 13th century - about 80 years - there had been a long and productive peace between the two countries. This was brought to an end by Edward's invasion but many of the Scots Lords enthusiastically embraced the conflict - as always the poor were to suffer.

Re Gibson - who will the poor souls at the Wallace Society?

14

Media for one,

25/10/2009 09:51:46
If there was ever a time for Scottish Nationalism it was during the time of Wallace. He was a product of his era and his nationalistic views were fuelled by a constant threat from the enemy known as England. He had to fight for freedom because war was all he knew.

Fast forward to 2009 and you find a Scotland that is very different to what Wallace knew. In modern Scotland there is no war, there is no hiding from the enemy or barricades on the street. Freedom is a right in modern Scotland and all the citizens have access to it.
The reason I find the modern SNP to be dangerous is their rhetoric that suggests Scotland is still subject to the sort of conditions experienced by Wallace. Such politics are nasty and dangerous and based on petty dislike. Drama, theatre and division best describe the modern SNP.
Wallace however, was right to fight for freedom and I for one dont care what he smelled like or who he went after. He lived in a world at war in a time of tremendous hardship and in my eyes will always be a hero. Salmond however, will not!
15

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 10:21:12

Here in the "modern world" of 2009, we witness the Labour, Tory and Lib Dems uniting to prohibit Scotland the "freedom" of a Referendum to decide its future.

"Freedom" should be a "Right" in modern day Scotland but in reality it is not.

This week we witnessed the Orange Lodge throwing its support behind the Labour Party.

This week we witnessed Top Labour Party Spokesmen welcoming the support of the Orange Order.

Such politics are nasty and dangerous and based on hate.

16

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 10:34:04

Here in the "modern World" of 2009 we now know of the McCrone Report which was deliberately suppressed to deny the Scottish people the knowledge that their country would be better off with Independence.

Here in the "modern World" of 2009 we know that MI5 infiltrated and spied on the Scottish National Party on the orders of the British Government.
_____________________________________________________

Media for one,25/10/2009 09:51:46

Says:-
"Freedom is a right in modern Scotland and all the citizens have access to it."
_____________________________________________________


Evidently on the condition that you are NOT a Nationalist.

17

Media for one,

25/10/2009 10:40:32
Scotland IS free - it is the minds of the nationalists that are shackled!
18

The Ayrshire Bard,

25/10/2009 10:41:09
I loved Braveheart but know only too well that it was historic rubbish. Still a great story though!
Does anyone know what's happened to the full length film about Burns. I thought it was due to start in the Spring but seems to have disappeared yet again.
19

Major General Puffin-Stuff,

Edinburgh 25/10/2009 10:43:15
# Ayrshire Creepy Scot

Your comments about gay domestic abuse are a wonderful example of 13th century thinking.
20

lulach mac gille coemgain,

25/10/2009 10:44:01
Still - Duke of Cumberland waz wurse - skinning folk alive and inventing the Concentration camp eh ?

History is full of bad b@stiids!
21

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 10:48:10
Media for one,25/10/2009 10:40:32

Says:-
"Scotland IS free - it is the minds of the nationalists that are shackled!"
_____________________________________________________


The suppression of the McCrone report proves that it is the minds of the Scottish people that the Unionists are trying to shackle.

22

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 10:53:39
Jo'Burg Jock,South Africa 25/10/2009 10:48:10
Media for one,25/10/2009 10:40:32

Says:-
"Scotland IS free - it is the minds of the nationalists that are shackled!"
_____________________________________________________


The attempts to stop Scotland having a referendum on Independence proves that it is the minds of the Scottish people that the Unionists are trying to shackle.

23

Media for one,

25/10/2009 10:56:31
Jo Burg -

You cannot shackle that which is already in chains!

In the eyes of a lover of Scotland one sees freedom, beauty and prosperity in which the possibilities are endless. In the eyes of the loather of England, one sees a sorry Scotland and that will always be the case with or without independence. Baggage is baggage and it weighs you down no matter what!
When the nationalists removes the chains that shackle their minds they may well see the advantages of living in a nation so free. THEN and only then will there be a chance for independence because the notion will have been born of the right substance - a love for Scotland as opposed to an ill feeling toward England and Britishness.
24

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 11:13:22
Media for one,25/10/2009 10:56:31

The declared aims of the Scottish National Party:-

"The primary aim of the SNP is to take Scotland forward to independence.

Independence means the Scottish Parliament having full control over Scottish affairs and the right to decide when to share power with others. Independence would give Scotland the same rights and the same responsibilities as other modern nations. It would give us a voice on the world stage and a say in international bodies like the UN and EU. With an SNP government, independence would also bring greater freedom for individuals, families and communities within a society built on common interests."
______________________________________________________

No! Not a word about your perception of "ill feeling toward England and Britishness"

I call it LOVE for Scotland and its people.
_______________________________________________________

You have not answered my charges on:-

The Suppression of the McCrone Report.

Spying by MI5.

The attempts to stop a referendum on Independence.

The involvement of the Orange Lodge with the Labour Party.

All perpetrated in the name of "a love for Scotland".

I Suppose.

25

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 11:19:44
Media for one,25/10/2009 10:56:31

I Said:-
"The attempts to stop Scotland having a referendum on Independence proves that it is the minds of the Scottish people that the Unionists are trying to shackle."
____________________________________________________


You Responded:-

"You cannot shackle that which is already in chains!


A Faux Pas?

Or Your Inner thoughts?

26

Media for one,

25/10/2009 11:23:34
Jock - I dont agree with you!

I am Scottish by birth so I understand the animosity that exists within our clans when it comes to England. We hate them, it is our mantra when we are together as a clan.
Of course much of what we say about them is in "humour" or at least that is what we say.
But our adopted national anthem and our cries of freedom in 2009 are a sign of our inability to move on.

If our adopted national anthem was Scotland the Brave and our interest in Scotland winning was as important as England losing I would say independence for the people was FOR THE PEOPLE! But it isnt at the moment and that is the problem. When you want something, know first what it is that you want as opposed to what you THINK you want.
27

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 11:49:06
Media for one,25/10/2009 11:23:34

says:-

"when it comes to England. We hate them, it is our mantra when we are together as a clan."
_____________________________________________________

Speak for yourself please and do not ever align your hatred with the Scottish Nationalists who only want what is best for Scotland through their Patriotism.

Patriotism is a love of ones country (I feel compelled to point that out to you).

We all have our little jokes about different Nationalities but you seem to have sunk into a desperate state of mind.

If you knew anything about the SNP you would know that there are many English people who are members and are welcome.

You represent the type of "English hater" that the SNP will not have.
______________________________________________________

So in a way I am glad that you are an opponent of Scotland's freedom because you seem to be caught up in a world that I do not want to know.

28

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 11:53:49
#23 Media for one,25/10/2009 10:56:31

Says:-
"You cannot shackle that which is already in chains!"
______________________________________________________

I'm waiting!

Are you referring to the minds of the Scottish people?


29

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 11:57:52
#26 Media for one,25/10/2009 11:23:34

I'm waiting!

You have not answered my charges on:-

1. The Suppression of the McCrone Report.

2. Spying by MI5.

3. The attempts to stop a referendum on Independence.

4. The involvement of the Orange Lodge with the Labour Party.

All perpetrated in the name of "a love for Scotland".

I Suppose?????


30

Joe McT,

25/10/2009 11:58:12
If Mel wants to look at sheer barbarism he should try looking at Australia - where as late as the 1950s Aborigines were being hunted down and shot dead by Australians.
31

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 12:07:03
Joe McT,25/10/2009 11:58:12

Says:-
"If Mel wants to look at sheer barbarism he should try looking at Australia - where as late as the 1950s Aborigines were being hunted down and shot dead by Australians."
_______________________________________________________


Or watch the movie "Soldier Blue" to really grasp what his own countrymen did to the Native Americans.

32

Idi Amin,

25/10/2009 12:07:16
#29 "The involvement of the Orange Lodge with the Labour Party."

^ I read elsewhere today that Jim Murphy is away to Italy to finalise a deal to bring the Pope to Scotland.
33

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 12:12:02
Idi Amin,25/10/2009 12:07:16

Someone should tell Murphy that the Pope is not on the electoral register.


34

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 12:35:34
#26 Media for one,25/10/2009 11:23:34

Stated:-
"If our adopted national anthem was Scotland the Brave and our interest in Scotland winning was as important as England losing I would say independence for the people was FOR THE PEOPLE! But it isnt at the moment and that is the problem. When you want something, know first what it is that you want as opposed to what you THINK you want."
______________________________________________________

I've been trying to decipher this but I am having difficulty with:-

When you want something, know first what it is that you want as opposed to what you THINK you want.

In fact I am having difficulty with pretty much all of it.
_______________________________________________________

Media for one!

Please get an adult to help you with your composition.

35

billalba,

fife 25/10/2009 12:35:50
Funny how Mel never mentioned this when he was being interviewed on the telly - he did however say that very little is known about Wallace. Looks like another anti scot article by the SOS.
Media one..you have no understanding of Scotland.
36

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 25/10/2009 13:20:40
Sounds like Gibson's back on the gargle.
Don't take the ravings of a p!ssed Aussie too seriously.
Another Castlemaine, Cobba?
37

Jo Public,

25/10/2009 13:50:49
Cromwell was a bigger monster.
38

Abel Magwitch,

25/10/2009 14:29:58
Jo'burg Jock, I do like the idea of MI5 infiltrating the SNP.

Scottish television is notably short of new ideas and how about a comedy-thriller series called "Ghosties" modelled on "Spooks". That would help to improve employment prospects in the Scottish television industry, and be good for a laugh among the general public.

In the true spirit of the Ealing comedies, the reason for MI5 going into the SNP would be a clerical error in Whitehall, in which SNP is mistaken for BNP.

39

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 14:42:21
#38 Abel Magwitch,25/10/2009 14:29:58

Says:-
"Jo'burg Jock, I do like the idea of MI5 infiltrating the SNP."
_____________________________________________________

From "THE SCOTSMAN" :-

"Files prove that MI5 spied on SNP"
Date: 16 September 2007

"By MARC HORNE
THE SNP was spied on by British secret service agents, previously classified Government files seen by Scotland on Sunday have finally proved."
_______________________________________________________

You sound like a comedy character yourself!

40

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 15:06:39
Abel Magwitch,25/10/2009 14:29:58

"In the true spirit of the Ealing comedies, the reason for MI5 going into the SNP would be a clerical error in Whitehall, in which SNP is mistaken for BNP."
______________________________________________________
From "THE SCOTSMAN" :-

Date: 16 September 2007

"THE SNP was spied on by British secret service agents, previously classified Government files seen by Scotland on Sunday have finally proved."
_____________________________________________________

Clerical error?

Do you normally just make things up?

Do you think that you are at all funny?

You are just a sad case.

41

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 15:19:14
Abel Magwitch,25/10/2009 14:29:58

Try using a more fitting Dickens character.

I suggest Uriah Heep.

42

hoblar,

25/10/2009 17:49:48
"As was the medieval practice, during the Wars of Independence both sides committed terrible atrocities on a regular basis."

The original ambitious aggressor was England though.

If it wasn't for the military ambitions of Longshanks, Edward I of England Wallace wouldn't be known to us nowadays.

Scots, like anybody else, fought like with like.

Berwick was the big mistake for Longshanks, he set off a reaction that ensured that he and his prodigy would fail.

And they failed spectacularly, not only that they ensured that Scotland would be the first country in Europe to state that they were a nation that could choose their leader should the one they had not act in their interests.

Declaration of Arbroath, although it had aspects of prose meant to scare the Pope, was an article of faith in the Community of the Realm of Scotland that other countries in Europe were to wait centuries until they had the situation and desire where they could emulate it.




43

hoblar,

25/10/2009 17:53:55
Even though I don't rate Watson as a historian, she is perfectly correct on this occasion, even if she was actually afraid to refer to Longshanks in terms that are properly descriptive.

I don't rate the Australian Mel Gibson as a historian, I cringed at the cartoon baddies sniggering slavering portrayal of the English in Braveheart when I watched it at the pictures.

The English were portrayed like baddies out of scooby doo, so Gibson has little to boast about from an accuracy perspective (Battle of Stirling Bridge-minus a Bridge anyone?although the film was entertaining.
44

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 25/10/2009 18:04:56
Talking of brutal characters, seem to recall reading that Longshanks gained entry to Berewyk by displaying friendly colours. Once inside he slaughtered the population.

Apparentky the killing only stopped when a pregnant woman gave birth as she died.

When the Ragman Rolls were signed i Berewyk approx 5 months later the bodies were still there.

I don't suppose Hollywood would like to re-enact that?
45

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 25/10/2009 18:20:10
The historians who claim the historical inaccuracies of Braveheart have yet to list them.

The most obvious one which seems to have escaped those eminent people is the fact that the English did not "hang, draw and quarter" anyone.

The drawing is the act of being tied by the wrists and attached to a horse by a rope and "drawn" to the execution site. There was a very good chance that the poor subject had been previously disembowled in prison.

The hanging was not fatal. The quartering was.
46

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 25/10/2009 18:21:13
They were drawn, hung and quartered.
47

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 18:30:37
The Wallace
By Jim McLean

Chorus:
They murdered the Wallace for treason
His body has long since decayed
But no English crown can destroy him
For Wallace is with us today

They hung Wallace high on the gallows, then let him down ere he was dead
And while he choked, the Queen cheered him for daring to cross English Ted
His heart and his liver they savaged as Her Majesty watched the glad scene
His head was cut off, he was quartered, 'twas an afternoon fit for a queen

He took up his sword against England, the cowardly sassenach ran
He beat them at Falkirk and Stirling and burnt them like rats from our land
King Edward of England was raging that Scotland was free once again
The Scottish Republican Army had wiped out his best fighting men

Oh William Wallace fought bravely, no Englishman could him defeat
But English gold bought Scottish quislings, and he was betrayed by Menteith
With a crown made of thorns he was tortured for setting his own country free
How am I a traitor, cried Wallace, When England is foreign to me

To Edinburgh, Stirling and Falkirk, from Inverness to Elderslie
His spirit is calling for justice and commands us to set ourselves free
And when once again we do battle for Wallace against England's scum
We've no fear of betrayal to the Saxon - let them come, let them come, let them come
48

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 25/10/2009 18:34:06
Wallace is with us today

Aye!

Wallace is with us today

Aye!

Wallace is with us today
49

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 25/10/2009 19:05:31
I will not follow les Waleys on the Index Nominum
or follow, follow Mareschal or de Malere or Hum
or Aberdash to Yetham, Val de Esk to Balcasky
and kneel before and sell my soul to you, false majesty

Hey nae

From ringing out the Ragman Roll - a song about Wallace, 1993.
50

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 25/10/2009 19:11:41
48, Jo'Burg Joe. "Wallace is with us today"

Here's the last verse,

you can break my body as it pleases you, you'll never break my mind
the spirit of my conscience will live through the mists of time
in the hearts of the true defenders, like a seed in eternity
and rise in a new generation that will surely follow me.

 

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